You can now ride HELMET FREE in Michigan!!

I can't believe someone would go half-face or no helmet in Ohio or Michigan after this winter. The bugs are huge already. I've had them explode on impact off my face shield. Numerous riders are going for a cool look but not using their head at all. I bought my son and I matching full face helmets for Christmas. Chances are, even with 100k of insurance, a head injury from a bike accident would be a huge cost to the taxpayers in Michigan once the rider is receiving 24 x 7 care in the Medicaid nursing home.

 

Too much chance of suffocation. This would be better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgwHMWH18-g

 

Only if they actually crash

 

It was somewhat implied that I was referring to those who were in a collision ... but saying crash ... most motorcycle incidents are not a result of the rider's actions but the actions of others, so the rider didn't "crash", they were crashed into... The statistics for riders is that for the vast majority of riders it isn't a question of *IF* you will go down, but *WHEN*.

So, when it is your "turn" do want to be wearing a helmet or not? And have you signed up as a donor? I am probably going to need a kidney in the next few years and would like the pool to be as large as possible come that day ...

 

Ya know ..something just occurred to me... if you are going to justify imposing safety restrictions (aka helmet laws) on bikers so that healthcare costs and medicaid costs don't increase...you had better start patrolling McDonalds and Burger King and restricting fat people from eating there and increasing their likelihood of getting diabetes, especially when you consider they are inflicting that same lifestyle on their children who don't have a choice. And obesity is BY FAR a greater drain on our rising health care costs than .001% the cycle accidents attribute....


p.s. I wonder how it is the other 30-some states in the union have managed to go Pro-choice without their economies crashing and avoiding all manner of disasters aforementioned in this thread... what were we Michigander Motorcyclists (the radical ones I mean) thinking?...

 

There's a big difference in your comparisons Mad_Bohemian things can be done about obesity and pro choice. You can change your mind and live differently! But when you smash your brains all over the road you can't say I guess I'll wear a helmet now. If you live you get to sit by the window droll all over yourself. You can argue free choice, constitutional rights or what ever rights are popular at the time. Stupid is stupid no argument can justify stupidity. Not wearing a helmet is just an exercise in stupidity. And even with no fault insurance everyone pays for the stupid ones! The rates go up no matter what kind of insurance you have. Good drivers pay for the stupid drivers! Too bad theirs no law against being stupid.

 

"How utterly inane". Torched again. Every time. Never fails. Real nice objectivity for anothers opinion. Wow.

 

Some obese people die of heart attack etc.... room for legislation there.
If not wearing a helmet is stupid because they are so safe all car drivers should wear them too , like in race cars ....

 

Any takers yet? Hmm, wonder why?

 

Everyone has opinions and the point isn't to deny someone their opinion but to point out the lack of understanding so many have about what makes a society and how it works to allow all these people who all have different opinions and beliefs to live together in relative harmony. Stating that the statement is inane does prevent anyone from having an opinion but expresses MY opinion/belief that that one is not tenable or reasonable within our society as a *functional* belief. Or at least, that's my opinion, but apparently, I am not allowed to have one ...

My "opinion" regarding the forcing the will of some upon all by way of legislation is not one based only upon my personal wants, but rather upon extended study of societys, history, morality and moral codes. And yet, somehow, in your opinion, it is less than objective. Interesting.

Pursuing the line of reasoning that this country is based upon freedom and personal choice, then you should object also to the government legislating the type of glass/quality used in cars, seat belts, all regulations regarding safety laws including the ones which specify the quality of the tires on which you ride, DOT rating of your brake fluid, the condition of the roads upon which you cruise, the lanes of traffic to which you are confined, speed limits, driving under the influence of anything, let alone alcohol. Oh, and what about people texting or putting on lipstick while driving who then plow through the rider stopped at the traffic light ... nope, can't pass laws about that because their freedom is being impinged upon. So when that semi- driver who has been driving the last 14 hours straight plows over you at the intersection because he is half asleep, that's okay because it was his right to do so and the laws stating that he can only drive so many hours without a break are infringing upon his freedom and shouldn't exist/should be ignored ...

But don't forget, that's my opinion and you have to be tolerant thereof or you are, what, torching me and not being objective of my opinion ... oh, yeah, intolerant ... the word of the day.

Let Freedom Reign! Anarchy is the rule! If it feels good, do it, without regard to the health or well-being of others for you are the ONLY one that matters. Let Freedom Ring!!

 

Hey Professor-heres another one to quote. Longwinded and boring! This site at times seems like its being overrun by these know-it-alls who are more intent in trying to convince the world how smart they are, than actually talking anything motorcycle related. Pretty damn sad . Happy trails XJers!

 

Translation: I can't find a flaw in your argument so I'll simply attempt to display contempt and ignore any validity your comments might have ... Since when doesn't helmet wearing apply to motorcycling discussions? That being the case in your view, why didn't you say so to the OP?

 

Seen this sort of thing happen on other forums,one of the best things about XJ bikes is, in general, this doesn't happen.
It's just an exchange of opinions guys, you dont have to share everyone elses opinion,it's like their dog,they like it, you dont have to take it home with you.
Lets not turn this into a keyboard warrior festival.

 

I agree with the statement of (Lets not turn this into another keyboard Warrior site) I set back just about every night and read what others are talking about in here and always find things of interest which I put on my back burner for the day I run into a problem which I am totally baffled on like what was just mentioned on how to pull an engine out of a XJ. Whow! what a idea of laying the bike on it's side and pulling the engine out. Great Idea to say the least. At 65 I need all the great idea's this old peanut brain can hold. There's some really smart guys here and then there's the rest of us but them's that are so smart didn't get that way over night I am sure. Keep up the good work guys, you help all that visit this site greatly. )) grunt007, 81'XJ 750 Seca, Mi.

 

Hahaha I love this idea!!!! Post videos to YouTube while your at it!

 

You guys wanna know what's nuts? In the state of Washington you have to wear a hat(helmet) when you ride, but............ You don't need insurance. None at all. No comprehensive, no liability nuthin!

Now that's nuts

Loren

 

Ha ha Fitz. I can definitely do this. I have been into aggressive sports for a long time and do it all of the time. Now I'm getting older so my back may say differently. It's such a goofy request I almost want to go out and try it lol.

This thread is so funny. If you re read it there is a ton of people trying to prove that helmets are safe, but I don't see one post of anyone saying a helmet is NOT safe. We ALL agree that helmets are safer and yet post multiple arguments of why they are safe. I have seen some long ones too lol. I LOVE these internet convos some times. Like the other guy, I am glad the site is not like this, but in this instance I am extremely amused by it.

 

Motorcycle helmets......
This thread seems on topic to me.

 

Fritz, you don't even need to run or jump. Just have someone tie your srms and legs and then knock you over. Hope a concussion is ALL the damage you receive.

 

I just read some then skipped to the last page to add my own thought. Another 2 cents. To me riding gives me pleasure. It will have some risk always. In my 30+ years of riding I have been down once due to a mistake of mine and it was at slow speed. I will not make that mistake again.
I love warm days and they are relatively few here. My best defence is how I ride and when it is hot I love to go with T-shirt and shorts. Some of you will gasp....so be it. This gives me the greatest pleasure and I am careful. I will risk a bit and the risk is small. If someone takes me out nothing I can do about it. Enjoying the ride is a big part of what we are about and I would choose to wear a helmet. Living in a smaller community helps also...not so sure I would do this in a big city....My main point is each has to weigh the risk to pleasure ratio. If you are a very good rider the chances of going down is greatly minimised.
The newest hazard on the road these days is texting drivers, they scare me a lot....I do belive all cellphones should have gps and any moving over 10 mph should self disable.....The lives saved will be worth the inconvienience......

 

You might want to try this wearing only a T-shirt and shorts (and see how it works out for you.)

Funny, I've never seen a deer with an i-Phone.

 

For those who advocate riding without a helmet, I have a few questions. There have been occasions when I have been riding and gotten a bit toasty in my helmet and opened the visor to let in more air. Inevitably, my face experiences the sting of the occasion stone tossed up from a car, a few bugs here and there, etc., making it more painful to ride with the visor up than hot with it down. And this is just driving around locally. How do you deal with these things hitting your face at 60+ mph? What happens when you are riding your bike on the highway and suddenly, smack,. you hit that horsefly with your face ... of swallow it in your mouth, or, heaven forbid, it takes you in the eye? Suddenly you are driving at 60+ mph while trying to a) cough b)deal with this sharp pain like someone just shot you with a bb gun, or c) trying to clear bug guts out of your eye while screaming in pain and careening down the road. It was unpleasant enough to have happen with my visor up an inch or two at city speeds. Or how do you deal with your eyes drying out as they are getting constantly being blow dried?

On a few occasions I have had to ride with less than full/optimum gear, and I found the experience to be rather annoying and painful to take a stone or bug on the knee/hand/arm. And again, this was at local speed, not even highway. Doesn't that drive you nuts? Doesn't it make it difficult to keep your attention on the road when it feels like you were just stung? I truly am curious as to how you manage to ride and deal with these things as they occur.

 

Florida is a no helmet state...i wear mine every time..

 

I have heard of the no helmet law in Florida, but I bet that make for some interesting riding during love bug season :lol:

 

This is actually a valid question, which brings up another valid point on my part.

In the state of Michigan we have to have eye protection above 35mph, either in the form of a windshield or the eye shield on your helmet.

So, since we no longer have to wear the helmet, that should mean that anyone riding without a helmet should have a windshield if they are going to drive over 35mph. I don't think very many people know this, except of course for the police.

I'm not going to get into the helmet/no helmet debate. I've had my cycle endorsement for 20 years, taken the level 1 and advanced rider safety courses, and I've had the additional $20,000 (actually I have $25K) medical coverage for over a year.

So I could ride without if I wanted to, but I think I'll keep the lid on for a bit. Because I hate windshields.

 

I have heard of the no helmet law in Florida, but I bet that make for some interesting riding during love bug season :lol:[/quote]

I wouldnt know...the bugs here get big,,,i always wear fullface ..

 

I'm thinking of putting pods on my helmet, has anyone had experience with this?

 

I havent seen pods on a helmet,,,,but the mohawks are popular here with the crotch rocket guys!!

 

Indeed! Super nuts.


There's a lot of hard feelings on this particular thread. I'm neither advocating nor downputting either side of this, but I see that said strong words are disrupting our usually quiet and friendly atmosphere.
I don't have to agree with you, but I support your right to disagree.

 

around town i ride with my visor up, i wear good sunnies so for most things the eyes are ok,, a bit of your nose is unprotected but my mouths behind the helmet and my beard sticks out the bottom when its long, sometimes you get a bug in the helmet that makes you instantly think its a scorpion,at highway speeds i have the visor down and find it ok at speed when its hot and it gets fairly hot here,when i see the harley boys with those hankachief things over there face with the jawbone and teeth on them i think thats what there face will look like if they go face 1st into the bitchumen,if there lucky, but hey ,each to their own

 

personally do what ya want...i wouldnt go on a milk run without a helmet

 

Ha ha tumbleweed. Honestly that part really sucks, but worth it (to me). I wear sunglasses that are safety glasses bought from the local hardware store. I never smile or open my mouth to avoid catching bugs or rocks with my teeth. I have learned to turn my head or move over to the right when passing big trucks. I stay much further back from vehicles to avoid rocks.

 

My god ken!! You ever literally have a scorpion fly into you helmet or is that just a knee jerk reaction? Now I may ride with no helmet, but christ...toss a scorpion in that thing and I'll never put one on!!

 

I think that is why he said "that makes you instantly *THINK* its a scorpion" ... probably a reference to the amount of pain experienced when the thing pegs you in that nice smooth baby-face. Course, there are stranger things "down under" ...

 

i guess im always thinking the worst, when a bugs gets in your helmet between your temple and the foam im thinking is it a bee or a wasp, basically anything that will sting you to bits and untill you stop ,what can you do,lol, the scorpion bit was just for special effects.

 

Someone was asking earlier of the hazards of wearing a helmet and no one mentioning any. Well, actually, there are some.

ANSI and SNELL have been arguing over the proper rating/testing methodology. I will say in advance that I may have the names reversed, but i believe I have it right.

The ANSI certification consists of One droip to one spot of the helmet where as the Snell rating requires 2 drops, the second lower, to the same spot on the helmet. ANSI argues, and I believe correctly, that requiring the two drop, same spot results in too much force being applied to the cranium on that first drop and is not a realistic test as it is extremely rare that the second hit, if any, would be in the exact same spot. Therefore, by their ratings and standards, the foam will absorb more force the first time, reducing initial trauma. I believe i read about this on webbikeworld, but I am not sure. I am in agreement with ANSI in this regard and I look for ANSI rating on my helmet rather than SNELL. The DOT cert as I recall is more in line with SNELL, so I don't believe you will find many ANSI and DOT approved helmets and almost certainly no ANSI and SNELL approved buckets.

 

Natural selection.... You choose to not wear one, you choose to accept the risk.

Personally I prefer to live by 1 rule when riding: ALL the gear ALL the time.

 

Actually, the SNELL is the better of the two. The SNELL has to take just as much force on the first hit, then a subsequent hit to the same area, which means the SNELL helmet has to have better, thicker, more dense foam.

I don't believe there are any ANSI helmets that are DOT approved.

Saying that an ANSI helmet is better because it doesn't have to (and in fact couldn't) pass the double-drop test is incorrect.

And whomever thinks that it is very unlikely that the helmet will take repeated blows to the same spot HAS NEVER CRASHED

 

i have ot agree here its your choose but no matter what when you lay it down you want that gear and that layer of protection. i learned one thing so far in my life (im only 28). Skin deep isn't only anout 2mm think and road surface is about 50 grit sand paper... You do the math..

 

People who want to buy the "best protection" in a helmet and buy the "snell" (higher) rating are doing themselves a dis-favor. A strapped-in driver of a race car will hit the roll cage multiple times in exactly the same spot, and the foam is more dense in these helmets also.

A motorcyclist can do with softer foam of the DOT rating, which transmits less maximum G-forces to the brain - - yes, a cheaper helmet can protect your brain better. Costs less to buy, and is lighter, maybe more comfortable to wear.

 

My SHOEI Full-face Helmet comes with Vents.

But, ... the Tiny Holes in the Protective Foam Liner were not lined-up to the Vent Holes.

I slightly enlarged and aligned the holes in the White Foam Liner.
::: DREMEL -- Very easily done.
Opened some Vent Holes in the Foam Rubber covering the White Foam.
::: HOT WIRE SURGERY. Paper Clip held in Needle-nosed Vice Grips. Heat red hot. Use to BURN a fine line cut through the Foam Rubber. :::
Poked Holes in Dacron/Poly Lining.
::: HOT NAIL SURGERY. Burn technique. Heated Nail held with Needle Vice Grips and BURNED through the synthetic liner. The hole edges are melted prevent unraveling of the material.

 

From the SNELL website:


Philosophy and Concepts of Helmet Testing

It is important to realize that a lot of product type testing like helmet testing does not seek to precisely reproduce real life situations, rather it attempts to define a set of requirements that is analogous to the types of situations that might be encountered while engaged in a prescribed activity. Helmet tests are designed to be repeatable, measurable and include a fixed range of situations a helmet might reasonably encounter. At this point the concerns of helmet testing does not include responses of the neck or body as they react with the head during a crash. It is strictly a measurement of how a helmet reacts during an event to protect the wearer's brain. At Snell we believe that as technology continues to evolve, so should helmet design and manufacturing techniques.

The Snell Memorial Foundation has one of the most advanced and busiest helmet testing facilities in the world. Snell's California helmet testing laboratory is the one of the few in the United States accredited to ISO 17025 by the American Association for Laboratory Accreditation (A2LA).

Before a helmet can be Snell-certified, it is tested in Snell's state-of-the-art test facility. Snell technicians conduct a variety of tests to determine the helmet's performance and ability to stay on the head in different environmental conditions - ambient, wet, heat, cold. Depending on the application and the standard, each helmet must pass all or some of the following tests.

Test types

Impact Test
This test involves a series of controlled impacts where a helmet is positioned on a metal head form and then dropped in a guided fall onto various steel test anvils (Flat, Hemisphere, Kurbstone, Roll bar, Edge or a Horseshoe type) which simulate different impact surfaces. The head forms are instrumented with an accelerometer to measure peak G force or acceleration which is measured in "G"ravitational units. The impact energy (drop height and mass), or how hard the helmets are impacted is unique to each standard. However, in any valid test, if the peak acceleration imparted to the head form exceeds certain threshold value (around 300 G's, depending on standard and test type), the helmet is rejected.

Positional Stability (Roll-Off) Test
A head form is mounted on a stand so that it points face downward at an angle of 135 degrees. The helmet is placed on the head form and the straps and buckles adjusted to obtain a "best fit". A wire rope is hooked to the rear edge of the helmet and brought forward so that its free end runs across the helmet and downward towards the floor. The free end of the rope has a mechanical stop with a 4 kg weight resting on the stop. The weight is raised to a prescribed height and dropped onto the stop. The resulting shock places a rotational load on the helmet. The helmet may be shifted, but must not roll off the head form. Next, the head form is rotated 180 degrees, the helmet adjusted, and tested with the wire rope hooked to the front edge of the helmet and the test is repeated. As in the first case, the helmet may be shifted but must not roll off the head form.

Dynamic Retention Test
The helmet is placed on a head form and the chin strap fastened under a device approximating the contour of the jaw. The jaw piece is loaded with a 23 kg weight for approximately one minute. The retention system is tested by simultaneously removing the 23 kg weight and applying a 38 kg mass in an abrupt guided fall. The retention system fails if it cannot support the mechanical loads or if the maximum instantaneous deflection (stretch) of the retention system exceeds 30 mm. Drop heights for the 38 kg mass are different for each standard, however the mechanism and failure criteria are similar for other types of headgear.

Chin Bar Test
The chin bar test applies to full face motorcycle, special application racing and kart racing helmets. The helmet is affixed to a rigid base with the chin bar facing upward. A 5 kg weight is dropped through a guided fall to strike the central portion of the chin bar. Maximum downward deflection of the chin bar must not exceed the stated distance.

Shell Penetration Test
The shell penetration test applies to motorcycle, special application racing, kart racing, skiing and equestrian helmets. The helmet is affixed to a rigid base. A 3 kg sharply pointed striker is dropped in a guided fall onto the helmet from a prescribed height. The test striker must not penetrate the helmet or even achieve momentary contact with the head form.

Faceshield Penetration Test
The face shield penetration test applies to full face motorcycle, special application racing and kart racing helmets. The face shield is affixed to the helmet and shot along the center line in three separate places with an air rifle using a sharp soft lead pellet. Pellet speed will be approximately 500 kph. For both types of shield the pellet must not penetrate, and for the racing helmet any resulting "bump" on the inside of the shield must not exceed 2.5 mm.

Flame Resistance Test
The flame resistance test applies to special application racing helmets only. The test is conducted using a propane flame of approximately 790 degrees centigrade. The flame is applied to the shell, trim, chin strap and face shield for a specified number of seconds, and any resulting fire must self extinguish within a specified time after flame removal. During the whole process the temperature of the interior lining of the helmet must not exceed 70 degrees centigrade.




The double impact roll-bar test is only done on racing helmets.

 

Also, the helmet rating has no bearing on the helmet's price.

The price is determined by materials used, style, features, and comfort.

There are $100 helmets from Bell, and there are $500 helmets from Bell. They are both SNELL certified. One is definitely more comfortable and feature filled than the other.

 

tskaz,

Again, there are differing views. I recall reading a comparison a couple of years ago. Although I have always used SNELL approved head gear for bicycling, the testing methodologies of SNELL and ANSI led me to be more comfortable with the ANSI testing/rating/cert as it would absorb more primary impact where the SNELL rating, to allow for the secondary impact in the exact same place with the exact same force trajectories meant that SNELL allowed more force to be transferred to the brain during the initial impact. My choice is ANSI, you are free to go with SNELL. Both exist and both are legal.

Now, what I am looking forward to is a helmet using that relatively new material which instantly hardens to absorb impact while staying supple the rest of the time. It is perfect for body armor and somewhat available as such but is mostly used in high-end (professional) sports equipment.

 

A "Non-Neutonian" liquid plastic?? Cool idea !

Check Out A Demo Here

 

There is this: http://news.discovery.com/tech/liquid-b ... 20405.html

But that is not what is was referring to ... aha! This is the stuff: http://www.d3o.com/

 

I guess it should be a personnel choice but in the back of my mind Im thinking there should be a law for those who make the wrong choice. 8O I cant imagine ridding without one the consequences are too great. Plus The bright sun bugs me so i love my tinted visor. Not Snell rated but has European rating.

 

I would just like to point out a couple things, then I'll bow out since this isa post about the helmet law.

Only racing helmets are given the multiple-hit roll bar anvil test, not every helmet they test.

Actually, neither an ansi rating or a snell rating make a helmet legal. The helmet has to be DOT approved to be legal. There are many helmets both ansi and snell that are not legal for use on the road.

Take those little brain bucket things with a quarter-inch of padding the Harley guys wear. About 65% of them aren't legal, because they don't pass the DOT test.


And one last thing, for those of you thinking about going without a lid in Michigan, your bike either has to have a windshield on it or you have to use shatter-proof goggles. Sunglasses and safety glasses are not a legal form of eye protection.

 

The wrong choice according to WHOM?!? Sorry... don't mean to offend, but that statement right there sounds like the principle that Washington operates on! Someone sets themselves up as the authority and decides what dumb thing us uneducated slobs are doing where we might hurt ourselves. Then, in their lofty wisdom of right and wrong choices they create a law to force others to follow their new right thinking....
Sorry, I'm an intelligent individual (just graduated Summa Cum Laude at the age of 51 starting a second career) I can judge for myself what choices are 'right' and 'wrong' for myself thank you....


...and Tskaz is correct.. Helmets must be DOT certified to be legal. So technically, you can have a helemt that surpasses DOT standards, but is not legal to ride with in MI....just sayin'...