Buying tires...

Need tires that are cheap and last--performance is secondary at the moment.

I know very little about tires; does this combination look possible?

http://www.amazon.com/Shinko-SR733F-Fro ... B001PS0P38
http://www.amazon.com/Shinko-712-Rear-T ... sbs_auto_2

They're both shinko, seem to be correct measurements, but different tires. I know you can do that on dirtbikes without question, don't know about street tires...

Other suggestions more than welcome. Searched the forums for info, most useful thread I found was this one: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=214731.html
which is where I got the idea for shinkos in the first place.

 

I just got a matching set of Shinko 712's with "Ride-on" balancer. The total cost was around $150, mounted & balanced, & now my Seca rides like a new bike again. A quick shout-out to Shade Tree Powersports here in Mn. for their competitive prices & great service. They also have a store in Ohio. Does anyone else have any experience with the "Ride-on" balancer? Its also supposed to seal small punctures, while keeping the tire in balance for the life of the tire.

 

+1 on the Shinko 712 set.

 

I Researched and researched and researched some more, and after much though, decided on some continentials.

A bit more than the shinkos but it's a option.

They seem to be of high quality. I'll give you a ride report by Sunday as I'll be riding them 500 miles this weekend when going to visit my sister

Here's the link:

http://www.motosport.com/cruiser/CONTIN ... TIRE-COMBO

They are like 190 shipped for the sizes we need

 

Might be worth your while to drive to Middlefield to Shade Tree. Probably the lowest price in tires you can find anywhere. Although mounting & balancing is $28.50 per tire, I prefer its done by a trained professional rather than do it myself. Plz nobody light me up here-Im just tryin to throw out an idea for this guy, o.k.?

 

Ok, Amazon has a matching pair of 712's of correct size for $105 shipped.

Called my local motorcycle guy who is a brilliant japanese bike mechanic. Said they stick with Dunlop and Bridgestone at his shop; sometimes the second rate tires will be done after one season, while the bridgestone will just last forever, saving you money in the long run.

Now I know there's some wisdom, but I also know this guy is kind of like bigfitz (which is a compliment) in that he can be a bit of a quality-snob; "just gt the best and don't take chances," if you know what I mean.

How long will a pair of bridgestone touring tires last vs. a pair of these 712's?

He charges 1 hour ($75) to install and balance both tires... Which honestly sounds fair. How can a guy afford to charge $28.50 per tire? Is Austin just a more competitive mechanic environment, driving prices up, or something? Any mechanic worth his salt charges at least $75/hour to 90/hour here...

 

Is that price off or on the bike? Because it'll be at least half the labor for them to install the tires if you bring the wheels in. Also, disposal of the carcass can be a seperate charge.

Shops have a machine to do the uninstall/reinstall of the tire, and a spin balancer. Would take less than half an hour's time for someone who's really good at using it. I've been told that doing it yourself can result in hours of frustration if you don't know how, that's why I just take my wheels into the shop :roll: .

While I doubt you need anything approaching a racing tire quality-wise, consider wet weather traction. Losing traction when you need it most is an expensive price to pay when the alternative is maybe $100 more.

 

I don't understand your question I guess--on the bike? If we were both communicating clearly (the mechanic and I), then my impression is whether I buy tires and brings them in or he orders them for me, it's $75 labor to:

take old tires off
put new tires on
balance
install

And since no extra charge was mentioned for the old tire disposal, I imagine it's also included. There's a chance he forgot, but they're pretty straightforward on prices. They don't just 'add' things on the receipt before they hand it over.

People seem to be afraid of balancing their own tires, but I asked one excellent bike mechanic in town about it once, and when I said I would basically put it on an axle, spin it slowly, find the heavy spot, counterbalance, repeat, he said they do basically the same thing.

 

I was comparing wwj750 $28.50 per tire to your $75 for both (saying his quote may not include disposal). Typically install prices are higher if you bring your own tire in, because the shop makes money on the markup of the tire. They will also fully waranty the install, since it's their supplier, and can guarantee that the tire isn't old.

Have you removed a motorcycle wheel before? It's not as easy as a car wheel. Not that it's necessarily hard to do yourself, but you have to remove the axle, brake caliper, and speedo drive cable on the front, and the rear axle, drum brake cover, torque arm, and brake arm on the rear. Then you have to reassemble everything correctly when you're done.

Again, not hard to do yourself, but to the shop, time is money, and you pay for every bolt they remove. And, like any business, they need to pad labor for the case when a bolt is frozen, or something breaks. I'd confirm your quote is with the wheels on the bike (that'd be mighty low if it is).

WRT balancing, you described static balancing, but the shops can also do the dynamic balancing for you.

 

That ride-on stuff looks pretty cool.... I'm tempted to get it.

 

The prices I quoted at Shade Tree are wheels off bike & brought in. The Ride On is extra, about $7.00 I think. Carcass disposal is included in the price.
Remember tho, you get what you pay for. A cheap tire is exactly that-a cheap tire. Probably not long-lasting & so-so at best, performance wise. I wish I had a bigger budget for tires, but I'm hoping these Shinkos' have good grip, which is what I'm looking for. Time will tell.

 

I had a bad experience with a Shinko front but there may have been other factors...this stuff is very subjective. I've got Michelin Pilots on mine and they are a great tyre.

 

I've just put some new Dunlop D404s on my 550. Love them! The best pricing I found was here: http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/

 

My 712s seem to be a decent tire so far, not many miles on them though.

As far as pricing:

Most shops charge by-the-hour labor to change tires. My local shop was a minimum 1/2 hour labor. One tire would have been $35. Both tires would be $70 (only have two shops within 40 miles, they charge the same rate)
That's with tires off the bike.

As far as where they make their money:

A pair of Shinko 712s at 30% mark-up = $110 (average price)
Cost of tires = $78
Profit = $32

Charging 2x1/2 hour labor = $70
Labor paid to mech = $15/hour
Profit = $55
And they don't have the overhead of ordering the tires, paying shipping, etc.

Shops that don't charge full price for tires have no problem with you bringing your own, and they have no problem cutting you a deal. They know where they make their money.

 

Oh, and motorcyclesuperstore dot com is where I order my tires, helmets, etc.

 

I was thinking about Bridgestone elite. Anyone had any experience with them?

 

Dunlaps on my wife's Honda VLX 600 got less than 10,000 on front and about 12,000 on rear. Bridgestones on my Honda 750 Shadow got 25,000 and I just changed them because of the age, althought they probably only had a couple of thousand miles left. Put Bridgestones on my wife's bike. these are cruisers and are not ridden aggressively, but I'm sold on Bridgestone. Not sure I can find them for my XJ700N, but I hope so. I mount and balance my own tires. Mounting requires some effort, at least the first time, but balancing is easy.

 

Ordered Bridgestone Spitfires front and rear...$130 delivered (lower 48) and $80 mounted and balanced at LBS.

 

$130?!?!?! Each, or together?

As for that 1 hour price, that's ON the bike, I confirmed. They said a set of spitfires would be about $240, plus 1 hour labor.

There is no 'tech' at my place. The mechanic owns the place, and he has a wife who does the finances and an apprentice. I just mean, there's a lot of labor in taking tires off and putting them back on, to do them both and have them balanced from on the bike in 1 hour seems like I'm getting a steal--and from the sounds of it, it is. Everyone else here says it's an hour labor if you bring the tires in yourself.

He's just an honest guy who does good work. He can do it in an hour, so he charges for an hour, I guess.

 

That's both tires from Jake Wilson....(jakewilson.com),,,delivery is 5 to 7 days. My wheels are both off the bike. Here's the link:
http://www.jakewilson.com/?gclid=CPT4rZ ... Kgod9Q2EvQ
Enter Spitfire in search box top right

Dave

 

Changing wheels and tyres is pretty straightforward if you have any idea of what you're doing and any mechanic that said that it was difficult or time consuming I'd stay well away from.

Many years ago we used to do road-side repairs for motorcycles around London (with a bike and trailer and later with a van) and motorcycle couriers with punctures were our staple. 20-30minutes from pulling up to get the papers signed without any power tools was normal. In a workshop with tyre changers and air tools it's an easy job.

I'm lucky to have a good (ie cheap) tyre place nearby with churns out lots of tyres (ie so they don't have old stock, just in-stock) who have all the tools on the bench so you can remove your own wheels and have them fitted to a loose wheel for free. In and out in half an hour. The only drawback is that there is an Aldi just opposite which usually has cheap deals on tools that I can't resist, which wipes out the savings...

 

Mechanic didn't say it was, I said that. I just speak from inexperience and youtube videos, though, haven't done much with the wheels before.

That's impressive, and changes my perspective. And hey, better to spend the savings on tools than on work you could be doing yourself!

Edit: But what about balancing? Doesn't that take time? How does 'dynamic balancing' work?

Anyone have any reference on that ride-on stuff mentioned? It seems to genuinely balance the tire and eliminate the need for it anyways...

 

(Weird, double post. Must have done something funny with the 'back' button.)

Are we talking about the spitfire S11? HOW DO THEY SELL THEM SO CHEAP?!
Their $60 front tire is at least 90 on amazon and ebay. That's ridiculous. Buying this second.

Tire sizes for front/rear are:

100/90-19
130/90-16

right?

Free shipping if you buy them together, on top of the insane cheap price for both. This place seems too good to be true.

 

I think I've read an expose on that 'self balancing gunk' and it wasn't good, but I don't have a link to it, so how much credence you give a write-up only half-remembered by a stranger is up to you.

I don't balance my own tyres and only occasionally pay the tyre shop to do it (about £6 - $10 I think). I don't say it doesn't make a difference at high speed, but most of my riding is either around town or nearby, or going on holiday with the sidecar and trailer which is not at high speed.... 80-90mph I'd expect to see the benefits, but I don't do it often, so don't pay the extra money unless i think there's a problem to solve. If I hadn't recently taken a cut in income I might think differently though.

Static balancing may resolve small issues, but does not give a true balance. Let me explain that - it will make sure that weight differences are balanced out by placing a weight on the rim opposite a heavier part of the wheel. If that counter weight is at the same distance from the wheel spindle then they will both have the same effect when the wheel is turning, but if they are not, whichever is furthest will have the greater effect. Think of two people on a see-saw - a child at the end and an adult only part way along so they balance each other. If instead of going up and down it span around, the inertia of the child at the end of the arm would overwhelm the closer weight.

The dynamic balance machine aims to measure the out of balance-ness, although I guess it also has to compromise and will be most effective at a given speed (60mph??) and less effective below that (when it matters less anyway) and and above that at speeds you'll be doing less for long periods.

So dynamic balancing will give you a benefit, just don't let anybody try and 'improve' on that by static balancing afterwards, that would be a backwards step.

For an engineering explanation we'd have to talk about the second moment of inertia and I'd have to dig deep in the old grey matter.

 

I have always felt that in 5th gear I have some uncomfortable vibration between 5k and 5.5k on the tach... A knowledgeable friend seemed very confident that it meant tires out of balance when I told him so. It's bothersome enough that I'd go out of my way to do it. It's a pain in the ass place to have the vibration, as that's right about the speed of traffic, and so I am typically trying to go a little faster than traffic to stay out of that spot. (Not the end of the world, usually, but if I'm stuck behind a car at that speed I don't like it, or when riding with others).

I'll go look up the self-balancing gunk and see if I can find a well-thought-out expose.

It should be that hard to set a weight an equal distance from the spindle, no? That was a great illustration, though, thanks.

 

With respect to static balancing I think you will find that it is fine unless you are racing, and even some racing teams static balance. I static balance all my tires, and at 90 mph my Honda is smooth as silk. (The local Honda dealer static balances.)

With respect to the self balancing stuff, it should work at speeds above about 45 mph. Below that you wouldn't notice anyway. We used to balance car and truck tires with a tube attached to the inside of the rim with small steel balls in it--the same principal as the liquid stuff. The centrifugal force moves the balancing material to the "lighter point" in order to equalize the forces.

However, I've been told that it makes a mess in tubeless tire wheels and in some cases corrodes the metal. At least tube tires would avoid that issue. Since static balancing is so easy the only time I would consider using the liquid would be in a tube tire, and then for the puncture repair properties of products like Slime.

I'd be interested in anyone's experience with Slime.

 

This one does have puncture repair properties (which is also my main interest), easily washes out of the tire with water, and is completely non-corrosive; they have approval from several manufacturers who have given them letters saying that their product will not void their warranties.

Slime does make a mess. Have used it in bicycle tires. Never done so in motorcycle tires.

 

I've never used the dynabead stuff or similar and don't really see why it would be expected to work - quite the opposite in fact as if the tyre is out of true I'd expect all the beads to move towards that. I have no experience, but I think I've found the thread where I read about it - I also have an XVZ1200 Venture and there was a long discussion on Dynabeads which quoted Motorcycle News on this. You can read about it all here: http://www.venturerider.org/forum/showthread.php?t=44709

Then again, if others have had good experience, far be it from me to argue - and most of the comments that turn up from a quick Google search look positive.

I have used the anti-puncture stuff and didn't have a bad experience, but my problem at the time was leaks around the rim because of light oxidation and the stuff didn't sort it. It just seemed too expensive to keep replacing each time. Using it in tubes seems more sensible I admit. I think it is the finilec / post puncture sealant that gets the bad press for making a mess of the rime though. The preventative stuff seems to stay liquid rather than setting to a sticky copydex-like mess.

 

Keep in mind that any front tire with a center groove, like the S11s or the 712s, will not track perfectly straight on rain-grooved roads.

I can definitely tell the difference on the motorway at 80mph, but on regular roads at 60mph they are no different.

 

On my XJ650 MAxim there IS a shudder at 5K which = 63-65MPH. Goes away above & below. On my XJ1100 it happens around 4.6K which is 63-65MPH. Seems to be some kind of inherent resonance, not a problem to be solved.

 

Gunk? Ah, that's the dominion of obfuscation... Look here & see what you think of "Gunk"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq263AYgyYg

 

Interesting that you also report vibration on the 60-63 mph range... Anyone else can confirm.

That video was good, I was sure something like that had to be out there.

As for ride-on, searching I find nothing but good things said about it by those who have used it. I found one guy on the advriders forum who has used it in every vehicle tire he's had for the last 8 years, and had only good things to say--longer tire life, far fewer flats, and no problems up into the triple digit speeds, longer time between air-ups (as it helps to fill up the pores to some extent in the tire)... I think I'm going to go ahead and give it a try.

Found a youtube video by rideon where they ride the tire over a board of nails, piercing the tire every time, and drive away with the tire seemingly fine. They then take a hand drill and drill holes in the tire, and it doesn't go flat--it's on a bike, and it drives away fine. Pretty impressive. The US army contracts with them as well. Non-corrosive. Stays fluid, so lots of people report it washes off easily with a simple spray with a hose.

 

I have just over 28,000 miles on a set of Dunlop Elite 3's. Longest lasting tires so far, as they still have plenty of tread left.

 

Now THAT's impressive. I don't think I've ever heard of so many miles on a motorcycle tire. How much did they cost ya?

 

I bought them in March of 2008 at Chaparral Motorsports here in San Bernardino, CA

MM90-19 Price: $98.88
MT90B16 Price: $129.88

http://www.chaparral-racing.com/Product ... -4420.aspx

 

What kind of riding do you do to put so many miles in 3.5 years?