Engine dies randomly..... usually on the road!

1st thing - 1983 XJ1100 Maxim (yeah a Canadian, eh!), bone stock, 44,000 km (about 27,000 miles)

I actually believe I have 2 problems - I can hear a definite "chuff"ing from the right pipe - and it runs rough when I crank the throttle - I'm pretty sure that this is a carb problem. The PO had the carbs done last year (just before I bought it), but I don't think they REALLY knew what they were doing - and I'm sure they didn't have a block-off tool (I bought one on Evil-Bay). So I'll leave this problem for now......

The big problem that REALLY concerns me is that my bike seems to randomly die on me. I'll be running down the road and with no warning - POOF - no engine. I'll try to restart it before I coast to a stop - and once in a while it will restart, but not often. Usually I end up on the side of the road, let it rest for a few minutes, then it will start up great and I'll be off again - often it will start again as soon as I stop rolling. These symptoms definitely lead me to think it's an electrical or ignition problem.

It's VERY annoying, and if I'm not in a shoulder lane - I don't really want to have a Kenworth pushing me at 70 mph!

A friend told me that it may be the ignition module - and that if it overheats it could cause this. But today it happened on the way home from work - only +40F (a little chilly at 70 mph), and I'd ridden for less than 10 miles (after the bike had sat in the cool for 8 hours). Some times it won't start doing it for 70 or 80 miles, and other times it has left on me on the side of the road less than a 1/2 mile from where I started. It seems totally random - not like a heat problem, which would usually only show up after a long ride, and take a long time to cool down again.

I was poking around on the XS11 site and there are comments about the pickup coil wires being weak - definitely a possibility - it is definitely an intermittent problem, and since it shuts down all 4 cylinders at once, it could be that the ignition module stops getting signal from the pickup.

Any other ideas?

 

(snip)

If the lights and everything else are still lit up, then yes -- that sounds like TCI module. Had it happen to my 750. If you have the XJCD set, there's an article by Dave Jackson on fixing the problem. If you don't, he might still have it floating around online somewhere (search for TCI repair or something similar).

Long story short, the capacitors inside the module could need replacing. If you can't find Mr. Jackson's page, I can see about detailing the procedure.

 

Don't mean to insult your intelligence but are you confident the main battery leads are making a good connection? If so then try these:



http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFAQ.html

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=27543.html

 

I had a similar problem... Cruising at 70kph then, nothing. I'm willing to bet it's your TCI and not a real confidence inspiring event eh?

Take it (the TCI) off and find an electronics shop. I co-worker cleaned up a bunch of cold solder joints for a dozen beer and it's been trouble free ever since.

 

Schmuck & Mwhite:
I hadn't really thought about cold solder joints in the TCI - I'll DEFINITELY check that out - I remember someone mentioning that somewhere else, too, and it seems to have all the symptoms - intermittent and total failure, but a quick restart... My best friend is an electronics techie and takes care of all the electronics in about 20 bars & restaurants.... and one of his biggest jobs is fixing cold solder joints in brand new big-screen TV's..... Quality and electronics just don't seem to go together sometimes.......

Adrian - no prob - I try to take all criticism constructively - and yeah - I did check them. I just put the battery back in the bike (after winter) and had hoped that cleaning all the contacts I could get to had fixed the problem (I had it last year too - but didn't seem as bad). I also pulled apart the alternator and checked it (the slip rings REALLY needed cleanup, but otherwise OK), and ordered new brushes just in case.

 

Before you condem the TCI start with the basics.
- Change that old fuse box and install a new blade style one.
- Remove and clean all wiring connections to the TCI.
- Clean battery cable connections, positive and negative.
- Check the side stand saftey switch and relays(most likley your problem)

Broken pickup coil wires are more for the older XS11s(78,79,80), they have a mechanical advance. The moving wires will break over time. Your XJ11 does not have this, the advance is electronic.

Most likley cause is a faulty side stand switch or relay.

 

mlew - good points. I have a 79 XS650 and have completely re-wired it, and one thing I made sure was to swap to blade-style fuses.
The other connections, I mentioned that I'd checked and cleaned, but the sidestand switch and relay had crossed my mind, but I haven't checked them, yet...... good idea.

I'm not going to toss the TCI if I can help it, though. Usually cold solder joints are pretty easy to fix and if that's the case, I can repair it myself. My friend had told me that the one he had to buy was around $800 to replace - although he found a used one for $300. I'm too damn cheap to spend that kind of $$$

 

check fleabay for replacement TCI or look in the buy sell on the forum. You can usually find one for under $100. Paid $50 for my spare one.

 

Yeah, just looked at that TCI page... I recently started questioning my original petcock diagnosis because the bowls wouldn't fill up that fast, and the lack of sputter. When I opened the XJCD and read the TCI repair page, it was a perfect fit. Here's some excerpts:

"For many years my Police Special had a very nasty habit of dying like I had hit the kill switch.
It never sputtered first and would almost always do it within the first 1 km from my home.
Most times after cranking for a couple of minutes it would suddenly start and carry on like nothing had ever happened. "

(Mine also does it very close to home; this consistency I thought might originally just be the distance one bowl of gas was taking me, but if it's just a random intermittent leak, it shouldn't happen so reliably I think, when I'm moving the petcock around to different positions and such.)

"Eventually the only things left were the ignition pickup coils and the Transistor Controlled Ignition Module (TCI). The TCI was the one part I had hoped would not be the problem but I was wrong. I swapped modules with another bike and sure enough the symptoms went with it."

I have another friend with an XJ650, I'm going to go borrow hers and confirm the issue on mine if I can. I'll let you know if I find something out.

"This was not a good day, with a second hand unit (if you can find one) costing at least NZ$ 80 or NZ$ 600 new, I had to fix this thing! If you don't have experience with a soldering iron it may be best to entrust this job to an electronics technician."

Basically the page shows you what bad dry connections look like, and goes through what cleaning them up looks like.

Of note:

"There are a number of different TCI's used on XJ's. Here the later design on the left has been highlighted for part identification and the older design is on the right.
There are two basic types that I have found, In my experience they will interchange BUT they originally came out on bikes with different resistance pickup and ignition coils. If you need to interchange the two types it must be your call.
Within the two basic types there are also variations in the part numbers although they are all of the same basic construction inside even down to the same components used on the PCB'd so I am not sure why they carry different part numbers. It may be that the main IC is programable for different torque curves and timing angles but I have been unable to confirm this as yet.
I have used different numbered boxes of both basic designs in different bikes without any apparent problems."

So if you decide to replace it, you *can* use the type that isn't on yours now, but YMMV long term.

If you want the rest of the article that goes over repairing it, I can probably email it to you, just pm me your email address.

 

Do you have the stock fuse box or has that been replaced with blade fuses? I had that happen to me and it was a fuse losing contact. If you haven't replaced that, do that first as for mine it seemed to be temperature related.

 

Try this link

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=28349.html

This is all about testing and ohming out the unit, and was posted by one of the xj gods from the site,

enjoy the read, may prove useful

 

Thanks for all the info, guys -
Fintip - sounds exactly like my problem - I'll see if I can open it up and check for a cold solder joint before I look for a new or used one.

Biff - it's still got the original fuse box - all glass, but that may change in the future - I put a blade fuse box in my XS when I rewired it, and it's so much nicer - cleaner and more reliable.

Thanks, Cap'n - That gives me a start to check out my TCI! Of course, being intermittent makes it more difficult.... but Opening it up and looking for cold solder joints will definitely be a start.

 

Well - I opened it up and DID find a couple cold solder joints - which I fixed. Plugged it back in and it fired up again - so at least I know I didn't screw anything up any more than it already is...

I'll try and get it out for a ride as soon as I can to test it, but unfortunately, it's cold (2*C - about 46*F) and rainy here right now, and there's snow in the forecast for tonight.... And I'm already booked for tomorrow (have to go pick up parts to get my truck back on the road). I'm REALLY hoping it's going to warm up for the weekend, but the forecast still isn't good, so I may have to ride to work in the rain on Thursday.

At least I HOPE that I fixed it......

 

Still gets my vote.

 

Unfortunately, I'm too much of a wuss to lay under the bike in freezing rain and snow to check those right now..... LOL They'll have to wait till it warms up a little.

 

Take the time this evening to go get a fuse block from your local autoparts store or such if they have one that fits. Get that done tonight/tomorrow and then you'll be ready for the warm up ...

 

Of note, my TCI box has been replaced--it has junkyard marker saying "XJ750." So there you go. Common faulty thing, it sounds like. Mechanic in my neck of the woods says he has 5 or 6, he'd give me one for $50, and it'd be a good thing to have a spare of on the road.

 

You might want to double-check the sticker on that TCI box with one from a stock '82 650 Maxim--

the differences between models is the advance curve; the TCI box controls that.

While the bike will run, you may be running on a different ignition "map" which might not be all that healthy for the motor, depending on what the box came from. If it came from a YICS 750, it may be ok; but I would double-check.

Instead of hijacking this thread, how about start a new one and ask owners of a stock '82 650 Maxims what their TCI says on it?

 

Definitely check the TCI model numbers ... and send me the contact info of that mechanic so I can see if he has the one I need <grin>

 

Well - I have had a couple days of riding after fixing a few cold solder joints in the TCI - and was feeling great, because NO STALLS.... until today. Damn.

Fortunately, I was on a nice quiet piece of road all alone, so as I coasted - I reached back with my foot and kicked the sidestand a little - nothing changed. But as soon as I touched the Engine cutoff switch on the right side - IT FIRED! INSTANTLY!

I think I have a corroded switch. I'll be opening it up tomorrow and checking it out..... I have already rebuilt all the switches on my XS (yeah - even the mechanical turn signal switch), so I have an idea what to expect.

Meanwhile - the front wheel is also shaking something awful when I hit around 140km/h (around 87mph - at least by my speedo - which I'm expecting is reading WAY high), but I've already bought some Dynabeads for it, so I'll put them in tomorrow too. If you haven't heard of them - Dynabeads are small ceramic beads that you pour into your tire and they float around and correct the balance of your tires. Actually - it's probably more correct to say that they screw up any imbalance in your tires. They're the reason you don't see any balance weights on semis and heavy truck tires - they use something similar. I've used them on both my XS and my truck and they are GREAT.

 

There's a fluid called ride-on that I've long been interested in trying that supposedly is superior, and will seal up any cuts/holes within reason that show up instantly, AND cleans off easily and won't corrode anything. You might want to look into it. Their website claims that the military uses their stuff, lists a bunch of big name clients.

This video shows a bike driving over a board of nails, one after another, and the stuff sealing it fast enough that the pressure loss is negligable. Then they drill into the tire. In another video they have a guy shoot the tire. Lots of reviews of people saying they've been using it for years and it gives their tires longer life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tQ6hFqifE8

 

When this exact thing happened to my bike, I had a horn button that wasn't seated right in the control module. it was protruding a bit, and I could see the spring inside of it. I yanked the whole button and spring assembly out one morning, and haven't stalled since.

So a loose/intermittent ground turned out to be my case. HOping to find a new left hand control module soon.

 

I had a day off - so I opened up the right hand switches, hoping I could take the whole thing apart - no luck! The engine master switch is riveted together. Damn - on to Plan B.....

So I got some ACF50 from work (I'm in the aviation industry - anti-corrosion formula 50 - same idea as WD40 is Water Displacing). I've seen this stuff wash corrosion off of aluminum where usually we have to grind it off! I sprayed it good inside the switch while working the switch, then washed it out with contact cleaner - then did it a few more times to make sure - then after I was sure it was clean (the runout started out black!) I gave it a little shot of WD40 to keep the water out, and put it back together.

So far - it's been 2 weeks without a problem!

Now I get to start on the carbs....

 

congrats on the fix. I have same issue with dying randomly as if I hit killswitch. If I cant fix it, I will bypass it. Using a selenoid of course but a simple discreet button somewhere up front that will send the signal to the selenoid to kick over the starter. I dont have much use for keys I always loos em anyway