Questions about problem and about approximate cost

I noticed my bike sounds like the valves need to be done, just bought her used, and she has 32,000 miles on her, I think the clearances need to be adjusted, maybe more, but I hear a slight click in the engine. After a drive last night I pulled out the spark plugs and they seem to show a good burn, but the burn is only on 1 side of each plug, and I noticed after about 40 minutes of driving on a very nice day she started to smell like plastic was burning and did not want to stay running when stopped. I would have to move the choke up a bit for her to stay running.
Any Ideas?

Also about how much should I expect to pay to get the valves done, I live in Massachusetts (not the most friendly Motorcycle shops in my area.)

Any Help would be greatly appreciated, I can do minor things like clean, rebuild and sync the carbs, but valves I think are a little beyond me especially without all the right tools.


EDIT: hey also anyone have any idea how to fix a issue with the speedometer telling me I am going 40 when I am being clocked at 57, but slower speeds are fine and correct, I.E. 25mph feels like 25.

 

Hi there Chosenbc...

First and foremost you need to check your valve clearances. At 32,000 miles I'm sure they are very past due and unless your PO kept up with it, they are going to be out of spec. The process is very simple and new shims aren't much money: $5-$8 a shim, or possibly free (call around to local bike shops and see if they do swaps, you need 29mm diameter shims). A local shop swapped mine out for $2 a shim.

In regards to engine noise, slight clicking is a good thing. You want to hear a bit of chatter coming from the valves. Slight being the key word.

If you dropped or burned a valve, my guess is it would be spendy to get done by a shop and a PITA to do yourself...but still doable. But honestly that is a bit out of my experience level...one of the XJ Wizards could probably give you a better answer in regards to that. 8)

 

I thought the same thing about doing the valves. But I finally bought the tool, got a copy of a service manual, and did them myself. If you have any mechanical ability it is pretty easy. However, I found that the tool to hold the valve bucket did not work on my machine -- and I spent several hours trying--- so I went with the bent wire method. It was easy, fast, and worked well. Look at these two links:

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14827.html
and http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14827.html

I think you will find everything you need. Other than the tool the only problem I had was getting the phillip screws out on the side plate. One tap of an impact tool solved that problem.

Get used to doing things yourself, because not only is it expensive to get things done, but most motorcycle shops don't, or won't, know how to work on these bikes correctly--especially the carbs. I've learned the hard way, paid to have the carbs cleaned, set, and sync'ed, and then had to do it again myself. All the information you need is somewhere on this website, and Chacal (xj4ever.com) can get any parts you need. While the parts may be a little more expensive, they are the right parts and get to you fast, and he is also a source for a lot of information.

And you will enjoy and appreciate the bike a lot more if you do most of the maintenance.

 

You need to get a manual. with us here for help & you reading a manual, any task can be tackled in just a couple of hours even doing it for the first time. by syncing and rebuilding the carbs, you've done the most frustrating part already. although, doesn't sound like the carbs are correctly adjusted yet. What color was the burn on plugs? Were they all same color?

But either way, if valve shims aren't in spec, you will be wasting your time trying to make sure the carbs in good working condition.

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=1 ... art=0.html

 

personally, doing the valve shims is SUPER easy thanks to big fitz's tutorial here: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=1 ... art=0.html

I had NEVER worked on a motorcycle in my life before, and doing so was crazy easy.

The shim bucket holder tool is real cheap here, at under 12 bucks shipped to your door.

Len(chacal) from xj4ever also has it, but with shipping, its cheaper to just get it from amazon, even though len's service is absolutely phenomenal.

- oops, guess its more than when i bought it, but still not too bad: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000OO2Q90/ref ... ce_3p_dp_1


anyway, get the tool, check the clearances, pull the shims and record the numbers of the existing shims, and then hit up Dave, aka hogfiddles on the forums here and take advantage of the shim pool he runs. for 5.00 and a deposit, he'll send you the shims that you need, and then you swap em, and then you send yours back, and he returns the deposit. it works real slick.

you can totally do it yourself, i too was kinda sketched out by the thought of tearing into it, but now i'm sure glad i diddnt pay anyone to do such an easy task!

heck, if you can do carbs, I'm CERTAIN that you can do shims, cause carbs scare the shit outta me! If only you were closer, I would teach you how to do the shims if you helped each me how to clean my carbs!

 

Thanks for all the encouragement guys,
These carbs have not been done yet and the only problem with the other set that I did do is I haven't synced them yet, and of course the idle mixture screws, since I need a reference to start at with the screws.

But I have a PDF manual, the problem is I am not sure where on the hayes manual to go for the valve adjustment/shim/clearance.

 

You don't need the Haynes for that, just use my how-to: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=1 ... art=0.html

and Part Deux: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=29209.html

The Haynes lists the wrong clearances anyway.

 

GENTLY bottom all 4 mixture screws til they hit bottom. Then about 2.5 turns out is a good starting point. From there plug chops or colortune.

Fitz's write up is awesome and easy to follow. Just be careful with those head bolts!

 

As you are doing this.... count your turns IN so you know where you were at.

 

If you can do the carbs, the shim adjustment will be no problem at all.

BTW, when you go to do those carbs, the Haynes has the jets under the carb hats labeled backwards.

Any problems just post on here or do a forum search and help will be along shortly. There's probably even some guys form MA that would swing by to lend a hand.

 

jmilliken is right. Assuming of course that they had the proper turns to begin with, being properly adjusted. If they were off, then do the 2.5 turns as a starting point.

 

Yah the original from my parts bike were misadjusted when I got them and had been badly messed up, the other bike on the other hand still has the pluggs in protecting the screws from being moved, I think would rather just use the ones I already cleaned, and just get them benched synced then use them in the new bike. I will probably be better off, minus the fact that the "o" rings between each carb that I got from Chacol were too big and loose for my set of carbs when put in they actually ripped, thankfully the originals were not that bad in those.

Looks like I am gonna need to spend some more on parts, and tools, the down side is that I have no where to put all my stuff.

 

Okay so the valves definitely need to be adjusted, only the 2nd cylinder exhaust shim was within spec. But I have another major problem that has arose, I have oil going into one of my spark plug chambers, I am guessing one of the piston rings is gone, Is it easier to change piston rings or to do an engine swap, since I have another complete working 82 XJ650 engine? I was going to have a shop do it but their rough EST. was $1500.
PLEASE HELP!!!! I am at my wits end, I love this bike, but it is getting very costly.

 

How do you know "... have oil going into one of my spark plug chambers..."?

What are you seeing how did you diagnose this?

 

Shims are easy to get and swap. You can ask me about sizes you need, or Brad Bowen, and we'll see what we have in the shim pools. Used ones are a swap, NOS ones are purchases w/ or w/o swap for different prices.

Oil......just because you have oil getting in doesn't mean it's a piston ring gone bad. It's more than likely a valve stem seal.

Shop....... whatever you do, STOP GOING TO SHOPS!!!!!!!. They ARE going to charge you WAY too much to do a job that YOU CAN DO. Read those last three words again. And again.

Currently, I am in the middle of doing a full rebuild on a Maxim X engine. Now, I know a fair bit about the xj's, but have NEVER been inside an X engine. I have been right down to the block, just shy of splitting the cases. I have checked rings, honed the cylinders, repainted the jugs, cleaned the water passage, new gaskets, the valves are all out, cleaned, and ready to be lapped next. Then on to re-assembly. I don't have $200.in parts into the engine yet, and NOTHING owed to a shop.

This is EXACTLY why we are all here......to bring you to the point of realizing that YOU CAN DO IT, and then to the point where you can say "I DID IT".

You CAN DO IT.

If worse comes to worst, you swap the engines so you ride again, and you take your time rebuilding the other.

Now, go grab a wrench and START taking the small parts off. WHEN you get stumped, ASK us and we'll get you through it.

Well.........what're you waiting for!?!?!? Get going!!!!

Dave Fox

 

I have cleaned off the plug put it in, drove it about a mile or 2 and check it, fouled with oil all over the plug, cleaned it again, same issue, was cleaning the YICS passes and found some oil in there too.. the SErvice manual says most likely cause is piston ring..

I don't mind working on my on stuff, Shims I have found are easy, just need to do the swap out for shims, carbs... easy, but I have poured more than a 1K already into these bikes (getting closer to the 2k mark). I do have a garage to work in but the space is very limited with no work benches, and a family member that keeps going in and out moving everything around. Not very conducive to being able to take apart a engine and having a place to put parts with getting them moved or lost.

I do work 10-12 hrs a day 6 days a week usually, so I have only a little time to work on it, but understand this is not an excuse to not do it, just an explanation of my situation.

 

DON'T JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.

A cylinder experiencing "oiling" can also be simply a valve stem seal.

DIAGNOSE don't guess. Guessing gets expensive.

 

Okay so here is what I have...
Intake:
All at .009mm. (from here I will omit the Zeros and the extra "m") 9m
V1 - 265
V2 - 275
V3 - 280
V4 - 280

Exhaust:
V1 - 15m - 255
V2 - 18m - 260
V3 - 15m - 270
V4 - 15m - (I believe this one to be 270, but the shim had the printing printed at the outer most edge and not just warn away but partially cut off the way it was printed. and not I don't have a micrometer)

So I know I have V2 from exhaust correct, and and can use the Shim from V2 on the intake side to take care of either V3 or V4 on intake.
So If I am correct in the readings then I need
Exhaust:
Y255
Y265 x2

Intake:
Y265
Y275
Y280
For a total of 6 shims needed. Let me know what you all think.

ALSO, Thanks everyone for the encouragement. Us newbies need it!

 

32,000 Miles.

At that mark, ... IF the Compression is good ... you might have a Valve Stem Seal giving you some trouble.

The thing to do.

Go for a ride.
Have somebody FOLLOW you and observe your Exhaust Pipes while you ride along ... starting and stopping, accelerating and slowing and changing gears.

If you have a Oil Burning Problem, ... the Exhaust will give you a clue.
Smoke upon starting that disappears when warmed-up might be a Valve Seal.
Blue Smoke following you all would point toward Rings.

A serious problem would consume enough that the Oil Level would show you are burning it up.

 

Thanks for the info! I haven't checked compression yet, my buddy has the tool for that. (He wasn't around when I wanted and had time to do that since his mother died this past friday) From one of my other buddies that did follow me for a little bit before I stopped riding it as to not damage anything, no smoke, a little when I first start up but usually goes away, but I can tell it stops firing all four cylinders because I can feel it when I am riding and give her some gas, I can feel this semi hesitation and surging that I couldn't feel before (at least I think it is not firing all four because of the oil fouling of the plug.

But if I am wrong please tell me, This is all new to me, and any tips on further troubleshooting.

 

So as a just in case, anyone have an idea of what it will take to do an engine swap (hours) considering that both XJ650s still have the engines mounted on the frames

 

Godbless you, Mr. Hogfiddles! Lots of us need those "you-can-do-it" pep talks! It certainly inspired me! I'll be doing my valve shims for the first time in the next 2 weeks, and with the smell of gas on the old air filter, I fear too I'll be into my carbs shortly, also for the 1st time. Like sleeping with a beautiful woman, it's only the first time that's intimidating. ;-) Oh, and takes longer too!

 

This is usually a pretty good indicator that it is the valve seals that are leaking, and not the rings. Rings would give a continuous blue smoke the entire time the bike was running.

Swapping the engines on two bikes for the first time may take a weekend or two as you are not familiar where all the fasteners are located.

Make sure the engine in the parts bike is in good running condition before commiting to the swap. Nothing is worse than putting all the work into the swap only to find yourself in the same situation, or worse afterwards.

The easiest method to removing/installing the engine is to do what is refered to as a dump. That is. You remove all the accessory pieces (Carbs, Starter, exhaust, oil filter, drain oil, drive shaft u-joint, right side oil pump cover). Disconnect any wiring attached to the engine (plug wires, generator, oil level sensor, neutral sensor, more ??). Once everthing is disconnected, and the engine is clear of any obstructions. You lay the bike on the right side on some blankets/padding. Then unbolt the engine mounts, and lift the frame off the engine. Make sure that the right side mounts are removed just prior to laying the bike down.

Soaking the fasteners with Kroil/PBblaster for a day or two prior to starting will help with some of the more stubborn fasteners (Exhuast, etc...).

My recommendation would be to pull the engine on the parts bike first. Then while it is out do a good cleaning, and paint while you have full access to the engine. It will also make replacing/repairing any worn/damaged pieces (Exhuast studs, etc...) much easier. Once you have the new engine ready to go back in it will be a simple matter of removing the second engine. Then just proceed onto placing the frame over the good engine, and putting it all back together.

And most importantly! Ask questions!!!.

Ghost

 

So how difficult is it to do the Valve seals. I am missing all this prime riding time, and even though she is running right now I don't want to damage her.
Anyone maybe have a guide on doing them, that is how I felt comfortable doing Shims, BTW thank you everyone for all the help and encouragement.

 

It involves pulling the head. While not difficult, it will represent additional expense and downtime.

The thing is, if you do have to pull the head, doing a full-on "valve job" only makes sense, since the head shouldn't be off all that often. Valve stem seals get replaced during the course of said valve job.

Both RickCoMatic and I outlined what's involved in our recent responses to this thread: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=3 ... art=0.html

 

Hey - if the spring tension is only about 200# , you think a strong guy can use the 'ol "rope method" of holding the valve, and depress and remove the keepers and change a valve seal in-situ??

Some kind of tool would need to be cobbled together.

 

Hush now.

Yes, it can be done but it's NOT for the faint of heart or the typical ham-fisted amateur mechanic. It's an old "racer's trick."

You have to use compressed air; because you have a dual-rank spring to deal with AND the compressing tool has to be cutaway on the sides.

One slip, and the valve opens. Then you're pulling the head anyway.

Don't give anybody any ideas. This is one we (at least me) will keep to ourselves.

I have NO IDEA what you're talking about...

 

last time i put a engine in it went much smoother with the swingarm pulled back, no u-jount to complicate matters

 

Don't worry I am not adventurous enough to try that "non-exhistant" trick.

 

Just ride it - enjoy the summer - change that plug when/if it fouls - deal with the head work over the winter

 

Oil fouled plugs are never a good sign, but it might be as bad as you think. You can pull the plug and get or rent a mechanics scope. It looks like one a doctor would use to probe your innerds. You an check out the top of the piston and see if oil is coming up around the rings.
You can count the exhaust valve out and concentrate on the intake valve. Pull the carbs off and crank the engine several times and see if there is oil running down the valve stem

 

That sounds like a good idea except that it fouls after just a few minutes of riding... otherwise I probably would just do that.

 

Understood -- sorry for that ... guess you gotta deal with it... I changed valve seals this winter on mine -- if you need help I'll try.