Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky float

I am stuck.

Problem 1:

The bike was running really lean, I found out; maybe I seriously need to replace the boots, since I replaced other rubber... But I did the bicycle rubber fix on them, so I don't get it. It seems like just one is leaking to me, anyways...

But the problem is this: I cannot get tan plugs on this bike. I've replaced throttle shaft seals, and fuel rail o-rings. I've done the rubber bicycle tube fix. I keep doing half and quarter turns and still finding myself lean.

I never got tan plugs before, either--I got within an 8th turn of white/black, and ended up with plugs that were half white, half black... And that was almost 5 turns out on all four before the carb tune. We'll see now.

Next problem: Hard starting. I didn't used to have any trouble starting, ever--except when the PO's battery died, but then I bought a new one and no problems again. Then, rebuild carbs, and since... hard starting. Vacuum sync didn't fix it, turning out the plugs didn't fix it, increasing idle setting didn't fix it, setting float levels didn't fix it, and turning out the mixture screws hasn't fixed it, though it's now startable[/] with the electric start cold--IF I put the choke all the way on and lean halfway back on the throttle. And even still, it pulls up slowly, it doesn't 'fire up'. Once I hit 2k I can let go and it will idle at 2.5k or so and I can immediately let the choke down to half or so, and let it off a mile or two down the road and I'm good. Idle is currently set at close to 1k, a little north.

What gives?

Third problem: Sticking, flooding float?

Never had this problem before the carb rebuild, but my #4 float is just stuck on a regular basis. Every time I stop the bike, I come back to it with a drip out of the airbox boot of carb 4--the little screw is wet there that clamps it down. Airbox itself is always dry. (So no seeming oil contamination...)

This is even though that float's level has been set BELOW spec, like 6mm below rim instead of 3.

What the hell? Actually, now that I think about it, I traded petcocks for a manual on/off petcock (since so many people seemed to be doing a good job on their petcock rebuilds and still having trouble, and a new one was as much as a rebuild kit), so maybe it was a latent problem all along? Come to think of it, that carb was always richer than the others--I thought it was the one with the broken float pillar, but since that wasn't true, that must have been the case.

So when I look at all the parts, everything looks fine on that float. What could I be missing? Why is it overflowing? When I take it off, I can usually set the level fine--I did get it to overflow once when I was trying after it caused my idle to be shooting through the roof, but, generally, it doesn't overflow when I'm setting the levels off the bike. What gives?

The bike was running better BEFORE the carb rebuild!* Yet the quirks don't seem to indicate assembly errors; if a jet was swapped, things should be much worse, or no good idle, etc., right? I have gotten really good at taking the carbs off and putting them back on, so I'll check whatever.

Thanks for the help, kind of stumped here.

*I say that mostly because the hard starting issue; it does run better now ultimately, just with irritated problems.

 

Have you run any "GUMOUT" thru your carbs yet? If carb cleaner doesn't work the only other thing is there is a mechanical problem interfering with the float. As for the hard starting, it sounds to me that you did not properly clean your carbs. If you want everything to turn out perfectly you have to get a bristle from a carb brush into those tiny orifices to get the residue in your carbs that are giving you fits. Be gentle with them, they are fairly delicate instruments. If you have to, take them all apart again and soak them in the carb dip with the basket in the can for a long time so the stuff can dissolve all the varnish. BUT JUST THE METAL PARTS, NO RUBBER, O-RINGS SHAFT SEALS OR GASKETS.

 

I also think that you have loosened up a bunch of debris which is clogging your passages. After a good soak, use compressed air to clear the passages.

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

opening the throttle while starting pretty much defeats the enrichment circuit.
i don't worry too much about plug color anymore, summer blend, winter blend, up to 10% ethanol and who knows what else might make that tan plug a thing of the past

 

Thing is, I never had hard starting before. And I used compressed air. Very strong compressed air. I had to use earplugs.

I can verify that every jet was beautifully clean. As for the passages in the carbs that one cannot directly reach, I would assume that my ridiculous assault on them should have taken their toll... And improved the running, not worsened it!

I've never used gumout, but I doubt it can do more than ultrasonic + chem-dip... You're referring to this additive, I take it? http://www.gumout.com/ourProducts/fuelI ... leaner.asp

What kind of 'mechanical problem' could be interferring with such a simple mechanism? There's a spring (that's working)... What else could it be?

Polock... I really took the tan plug thing as kind of gospel. I'm afraid to stop tuning things until I get that tan color, like by having white plugs I'm slowly wearing away at the cylinder's insides.

 

If your float is sticking it doesn't matter what level they're set at. It's going to overfill because it's leaking. Did you replace the float needles in you rebuild?

Bottom line is if you have gas coming out you have a leaking float needle.

 

pull your carbs again, run a small wire or guitar string into your pilot jet, put carbs back on bike and see if that helps starting

 

Also this will cause your plugs to be white and your engine hard to start. The good people at Yamaha and Hitachi have the 3mm spec for a reason.

 

Are you sure the float isn't damaged in any way? If it's not completely buoyant it could get wonky on you, or maybe it's got a catch somewhere in it's motion? Are you sure your gas is good? Tried a different source & removed the old? No chance for any debris in your air box or otherwise creeping into your pilot circuit?

BTW there are a few other signs of running lean besides plug color. Lack of power pulling out from a stop at low rpm's, excessive pinging from your pipes after a decently long ride >15min, pipes turning blue from overheating, excessively dry plugs, plugs with metal specs attached, power cutting out at higher rpms.

You could use an air/fuel ratio measuring device like a pyrometer in the exhaust to know for sure.

 

hey fintip
heres another option for your float problem
take float bowl off of your carb
attach temporary gas supply , hold carb in position as it would be on bike , push up on float so that float needle seats , allow gas to flow and see if gas comes out when float needle is seated if it does youve found your problem if it doesnt than you can adjust your float height at that time and determine when the gas starts to flow

 

What can go wrong with float needles to cause them to need replacing? Mine seemed fine to me. To diagnose, if it truly is bad, couldn't I replace the float needle with the float needle in another carb?

Manuell, I'm pretty far past that in my carb cleaning...

Biggs, it doesn't matter, since that carb is overflowing. I set it that low because one day it stuck on me and it was like I couldn't turn off the throttle--bike would rev to 7k no matter what I did. Had to turn it off at every light, and shifting sucked. Right now it's at least stable--so while the level being low would cause problems, it being set low doesn't matter if it's always overflowing anyways.

Mercury, float didn't seem damaged, I guess I should confirm by sitting it in a glass of water. I did inspect it, I could I could check closer though.

Gas is certainly good, I've been running the bike for 5k miles now.

Airbox is clean, air filter was replaced when bike was purchased and is still clean.

I don't have any of those other symptoms of lean running--no blue pipes, no metal specs (?! that'd be terrifying!), no pinging or backfiring... But I do feel like I've never had a peak top end on this bike. But "excessively dry plugs" I might have... No pyrometer around, nor have I ever heard of one. Would inspection stops have them for cars or something and be able to give me a reading?

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

You float needles are 30 years old with 30 year old rubber tips that have spent their life in gasoline. That's what can go wrong with them. They can become cracked, deformed and hard. This will cause them to seal poorly. Also these needles will over time form a 'set' to the seat they're in. If you switch them to another carb with a different seat it may not seal.

Also when you talk out your #4 carb being set low intentionally because is overflows anyway I fail to see how that will keep it from overflowing. If your plug is white your carb isn't overflowing. If it were your plug would be wet and black.

A leaking float alone won't cause high idle (the 7k you mention). Fuel alone won't burn, it also needs air (read vacuum leak).

I would replace all your float needles and set them to the 3mm +/- 1mm and you might just have to bite the bullet and replace your intake boots as well.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

My other 3 are certainly fine if the level sets fine... And there are no visible cracks of any kind on the rubber tip. It seems to seal when I have the carbs on the bench, which makes it hard to diagnose.

All other three are set to 3mm...

Is there a way to determine if it's so hard it's bad, or do I just have to buy one as a troubleshooting procedure?

You'd think that, but it was random and nothing else seemed to make sense. It wasn't the needles, those were functioning properly, and even after pulling them all and reinstalling them (carbs still on bike), the bike would still race when started. When I pulled them all, and reset the float level to be 6mm down on #4 after I saw it was overflowing, it was fine. Can't imagine what else it could have been.

If the bike was already running lean, then that means too much air or too little gas otherwise--the overflowing fuel could have balanced that mixture correctly. There's quite a bit of tolerance in mixture variation, all things considered. I know that the throttle cable and assembly was all working correctly, as that was what I first checked and I checked it thoroughly.

That plug isn't white--it's white and black. I don't keep turning that one out, since it's not tunable with float level not properly set.

I set it low in an attempt to counteract the overflowing it was having--now it seems to overflow less, for some reason. Weird situation, I know; that's why I'm asking here. If it doesn't overflow on the bench when I'm setting the level, (except one time right after I got it off the bike and really disturbed it?), and I can set a level, but then on the bike if overflows and seems to overflow less when set low... Anyone have an experience that matches that?

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

+1. You really need to replace the float needles.
Float levels below spec will certainly cause a lean condition. Get new needles and wet set the floats within spec. Double check the pilot jet cleanliness with the carb clean method. Should shoot a laser like stream.

Did you replace the vacuum port needles on the intake boots?

I tend to like my engine running a little fat (rich). If everything on your bike is stock form, (ie-stock airbox, exhaust, airfilter) then you should be on the money at 2 1/2 to 2 5/8 out on mixture screws. If not, then you still have carb issues or airleak.

Also, when you say your plugs are lean, are you talking about after a short ride, park the bike, shut off engine, pull plugs and check color? If so, then all you are verifying is the pilot fuel circuit is lean. (floats set below spec will also cause a lean condition) For that, you need a Colortune plug to tune idle mixture. For verifying main fuel mixture, you need to do plug chops 5k and above.

 

Umm, no. There will be far to much fuel being delivered.

To appreciate how little fuel the correct amount is I am pasting the following from The Secret Life of Carburetors:

Now follow this bouncing ball:

1) Let's say you're puttering down the freeway on your XJ650 at 60 mph.

2) To accomplish this, you're traveling in 5th gear, and so your engine is turning at a pretty constant 5,000 rpms.

3) And let's say that your bike gets 30 miles-per-gallon at this speed, in 5th gear.

4) So after 60 minutes, you have traveled 60 miles (you're doing 60 mph, after all), and thus your engine has turned over a total of 300,000 revolutions...........5,000 revolutions-per-minute x 60 minutes = 300,000 total engine revolutions.

5) And since your engine is achieving 30 miles-per-gallon, and you've traveled a total of 60 miles during this hour, that means you've used a total of 2 gallons of gas.

And this two gallons of gas that it took to get you 60 miles down the road and 300,000 engine revolutions is pretty much equally distributed between each of your four carbs. So each carb consumed a total of 1/2-gallon of fuel, and 1/2-gallon of fuel is equal to 64 ounces of fuel.

Per carb. To go sixty miles. At 30 miles-per-gallon. At 5,000 rpms. In one hour's time.


6) Now, since a four-stroke engine incurs a fuel-intake charge of fuel-and-air on every other revolution, then there were only 150,000 fuel intake events, per cylinder, during this journey.

And each cylinder consumed a total of 1/2-gallon (64 ounces) of fuel during this jaunt.


7) That means that we can calculate what each carb, supplied with those 64 total ounces of fuel divided by 150,000 intake-charge events, supplied to its cylinder as a per-intake-charge amount of fuel.


8a) And although that's still not at the atomic level, that works out to .0004 ounce per intake charge. That's 4/10,000th of an ounce per intake charge.

Four Ten-Thousandths Of An Ounce per intake charge is the precise amount of fuel that each carb has to regulate, meter, and deliver.


8b) Just something for you to think about.............if and when you are tempted to take shortcuts!

You're trying to take shortcuts Fin. It just plain won't work. The float levels need to be set to spec. Another thought on the drop of gasoline on the airbox side of the carb could be from leaking bowl gaskets. Are those new?

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

That is strange that your plugs were both white and black, seems like incomplete combustion. How are your compression numbers? Were all the plugs basically the same?

A mechanic friend recommended to me a pyrometer when I was having lean issues with my 550, which are usually used for diesel or turbo engines. In theory if you had a similar bike in known mechanical spec you could measure it's exhaust temp and use that as a baseline. An Air/Fuel gauge could be used in similar way. I have always used plug chops and all the other signs to diagnose, but it would be nice to have a measurement to go by for sure.

I must admit I am addicted to all my gauges (H2O temp, Oil Pressure/Temp, etc.) on my modern auto's and not having that info at all on my XJ is a little bit disconcerting but what can you do? It would be so nice to have an oil temp and pressure gauge to monitor.

 

After reading this again (I feel like I'm banging my head on a wall :wink: ) this again leads me to bowl gasket. You set the level lower and it seems to leak less. That's because with less fuel in the bowl it make less contact with the suspected leaking gasket, hence less leaks out. On the bench it won't leak because it's stable and level, as in not being shaken from the movement of the bike, and the gas never contacts the gasket.

If all four plugs are white you are lean. That's the simple truth. If you did in fact have a leaking float needle you would not be able to set the float at any level as the bowl would just over flow. Any level it's 'set' at is immaterial as the needle isn't stopping the flow of gas. You could set the level with a needle that hangs on occasion but that would produce a black plug when it doesn't seat.

The lean condition will also cause your starting issues.

You need to stop taking shots in the dark, get things to spec, replace any worn parts and get that Maxim on the road and enjoy it.

 

The float levels are critical as to how the bike runs. Low float levels lean condition, high float levels richer condition.
To make the engine run correctly the levels need to be right at the washer under the float bowl screw. If you can nail that setting your troubles will be over. Most people just dry set the floats and that's just a ball park setting. They need to be wet set which I will add is a PIA. you need to make a jig to hold the carbs like they sit in the engine and feed them with an I V style fuel supply bottle. It will take several tries but that's the only way to get them right.
Going back to other than USA jetting, if you increase pilot jet size that gives you more adjustment without as many turns of the screws. Larger mains will make the bike run slightly cooler and color the plugs.
If you can get paper bag brown plugs after a 100 miles or so that's the best you can do.
USA EPA Emissions standards back in the day forced manufacturers to lean the engines out. The way most manufacturers met those standards were to retard cam timing and lean A/F ratios.
These engines run just fine with slightly bigger jets and stock exhaust and intake. Check chacals manuals on jet sizes for other than USA carbs. You will see the sizes are slightly larger, which would help. With all that said the carbs should run like they were supposed to before making any jet changes so you can see what happens and how the bike responds to those changes.

MN

 

I am currently rebuilding my carbs. Something I noticed when dry synching that happened......
I had attached the top and bottom connection bars, (all nice and square)the throttle and enrichment couplings, and enrichment bar with lifters et al.....
Just replaced fuel line o-rings and throttle shaft seals, and everything bolted up, as tho' on bike, apart from fuel supply, and throttle, and enrichment cable......
Dry synched them, using method on this site.......
Blipped the throttle linkage, to check butterflies closing down to synched gaps.....and ONE DIDNT CLOSE down enough???
Idle screw, fully out....
Kept blipping the throttle whilst trying to synch it to close down, ....still didnt close down enough.....(pilot mix screw made no difference - this is very fine adjustment only)
Tighthened all synch screws again, and re-synched, also checked spring and screw tighness (too tight?)....sorted....I think....
Reason Im telling you all this, is that have you possibly done same as me, and one (#4, in your case) butterfly, is sticking open too far, even tho' the throttle and linkage/spring is returning fully, #s 1-3, are closing properly, but #4 is sticking....initially possible cause of high float level in #4?...
Hard to start 'cos #4, is initially flooding a bit...
You can only see this (the butterfly sticking) happening when carbs are off bike, obviously...
Just a thought.
Regs.

 

I am currently rebuilding my carbs. Something I noticed when dry synching that happened......
I had attached the top and bottom connection bars, (all nice and square)the throttle and enrichment couplings, and enrichment bar with lifters et al.....
Just replaced fuel line o-rings and throttle shaft seals, and everything bolted up, as tho' on bike, apart from fuel supply, and throttle, and enrichment cable......
Dry synched them, using method on this site.......
Blipped the throttle linkage, to check butterflies closing down to synched gaps.....and ONE DIDNT CLOSE down enough???
Idle screw, fully out....
Kept blipping the throttle whilst trying to synch it to close down, ....still didnt close down enough.....(pilot mix screw made no difference - this is very fine adjustment only)
Tighthened all synch screws again, and re-synched, also checked spring and screw tighness (too tight?)....sorted....I think....
Reason Im telling you all this, is that have you possibly done same as me, and one (#4, in your case) butterfly, is sticking open too far, even tho' the throttle and linkage/spring is returning fully, #s 1-3, are closing properly, but #4 is sticking....initially possible cause of high float level in #4?...
Hard to start 'cos #4, is initially flooding a bit...
You can only see this (the butterfly sticking) happening when carbs are off bike, obviously...
Just a thought.
Regs.

 

I am currently rebuilding my carbs. Something I noticed when dry synching that happened......
I had attached the top and bottom connection bars, (all nice and square)the throttle and enrichment couplings, and enrichment bar with lifters et al.....
Just replaced fuel line o-rings and throttle shaft seals, and everything bolted up, as tho' on bike, apart from fuel supply, and throttle, and enrichment cable......
Dry synched them, using method on this site.......
Blipped the throttle linkage, to check butterflies closing down to synched gaps.....and ONE DIDNT CLOSE down enough???
Idle screw, fully out....
Kept blipping the throttle whilst trying to synch it to close down, ....still didnt close down enough.....(pilot mix screw made no difference - this is very fine adjustment only)
Tighthened all synch screws again, and re-synched, also checked spring and screw tighness (too tight?)....sorted....I think....
Reason Im telling you all this, is that have you possibly done same as me, and one (#4, in your case) butterfly, is sticking open too far, even tho' the throttle and linkage/spring is returning fully, #s 1-3, are closing properly, but #4 is sticking....initially possible cause of high float level in #4?...
Hard to start 'cos #4, is initially flooding a bit...
You can only see this (the butterfly sticking) happening when carbs are off bike, obviously...
Just a thought.
Regs.

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

Pauldale, the butterflies can be a real PIA to get on exactly 'square' to the carb throat. I found the best way to do it is to install the butterflies is with the rack still split. I then look through it (I actually press it tight to my eye so as to seal out any light) at a bright light source. you should not see any light leak through. If you do, loosen the screws a bit and re-seat the butterfly. It might take a few times but you'll get it.

Also they are beveled so make sure they are put back on with the same side out as before.

Another thing, the butterflies will not/can not affect float levels.

Ohh....I think you triple posted.

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

read through this
in the over heating section, rule out what you can't do anything about and what your pretty sure is taken care of. what's left?

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

Thanks biggsy!
When I dry synch again, very soon....I will ascertain whether the butterfly valves (individual carbs.) are seated square on the shafts, (the glue used to seal the screws, seems to seep through, and cause an xxx000mm 'film', which can raise it off seating flat level (?)
I think I have them installed at the right angle (with the bevel etc.).
Is it right that, when they are as closed as they can possibly be, - you cannot see, the two off-set little jet holes in the ceiling, at the back middle of the venturi? (And obviously hold them up to the light, with your eye closed up against venturi, and check no light evident).......
And thanks for that about float level, not being affected by butterfly stuck slightly open - would that still not affect not being able to bike-synch 3 and 4 tho'......using #3 synch screw...?
Regs.

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

Correct.

As far as the syncing, if one or more of the butterflies isn't properly installed don't even waste your time trying to sync it. Won't happen.

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

Thanks - waiting for pack of replacement fuel line o-rings. (I knackered two installing, when pushing the carbs together - they're very delicate, only 1mm guage thick and with silicon grease on, can easily slip their 'grooves', and break - people take note !

The carbs will obviously be separated again, when I undertake replacing the broken o-rings, and I will check carefully that the butterflies close fully, before forming the rack again, and check again, when I dry synch. If they dont close properly, I'll remove them and 'reset' them on the shafts, so that they do!

Today I fitted innertube extra sealing on top of silicon-sealed cracks, in the carb to head manifolds, and refitted to machine, ready for carb re-installation......

Regs.

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

Pauldale, you should start your own thread please. As for the problem you had and thought I might had, mine were properly bench sync'd and were then vacuum sync'd; I was meticulous about putting my butterflies in correctly, as the first one wasn't quite right and it took several hours of studying to realize what the problem was.

Most people in this thread (but not all...); please be aware that I have read almost every resource available on this forum about rebuilding carbs. (That includes the Secret Life of Carbs! I was thinking the same thing you were, that that couldn't be it, but my shadetree mechanic friend assumed that first knowing what all I've done to the bike, and his hypothesis seemd confirmed when we realized one float was flooding, and that fixing that level fixed the problem! So say what you like, come up with a better theory, I would have thought it would cause flooding and bogging, not acting like high throttle as well, but HIS THEORY WORKED, and I don't have a better explanation!)

I have read all the guides to wet setting, and have wet set my carbs carefully, which involved redoing the full process several times. I know about jet sizes--I know what bigger and smaller means, and I know that the US had tough EPA standards making the default US jet sizing lean, and the it was different in Canada. I know about wanting brown plugs; that's why I put that in the title. I know about plug chops, and I regularly am doing both plug chops and idle/park checks--I tend to have the same color for both everytime I check, so I clump them together. I know white plugs mean I'm lean, which is why I'm posting this. I KNOW having a low float level will cause a lean condition--that is ONE plug, and that is a TEMPORARY SETTING, and I set it low ON PURPOSE, KNOWING THE CONSEQUENCES, since it was problematic before I started.

Lastly, I am NOT taking shortcuts. I genuinely don't know what the problem is. I disassembled my carbs down to their smallest pieces, every single one, did my full research before, and replaced throttle shaft seals and fuel rail seals. Please stop talking down to me.

I am NOT taking shots in the dark as much as I can help it, but you (biggs) aren't really being helpful in that regard--you're telling me to take a shot in the dark and just replace float needle, even though mine looks like new to me and you can't give me any criteria to determine if it's good or not other than cracking, which mine doesn't have a hint of...

I also put in new float bowl gaskets a couple weeks ago.

Now, if you can stop treating me like someone new here, and start treating this as the perplexing problem it is and not just throwing easy textbook answers I've already considered myself at it, I'd be GRATEFUL, biggs.

Respectfully, if you rebuilt your carbs and believed everything ok, replaced rubber, float tips look GREAT (really, NO visually discernable flaw), would that be what you'd assume? Please don't assume I'm ignorant in your answers, and we'll get along nicely.

(I'd like to note that this isn't about pride; it's about respect. I respect Polock as much more knowledgeable than myself [and you, as it appears to me, though who knows?], but he still offers reasonable suggestions as an equal, not as someone over me. Mercury, has much less tone of 'let me tell you how it is'. I have no problem receiving advice, but so far you've done nothing but tell me what I already know, only a little less and from a place of being less informed. If you can solve my problems in a one hit KO, then you can start talking like bigfitz. Thanks.)

-----------

Polock, that was good, thanks. I'm going to go read that whole guide.

Mercury, I thought the same thing about the black and white, but I've never heard of that and no one seems to have a clue what it means... Pyrometer would be cool, and I have a friend with brown plugs I could use as a baseline, but I'm not about to go buy one. I've never had a new car with a ton of gauges, but frankly I feel freed by their lack. An engine gives enough clues as is, if you know what to look for, it seems. (Maybe the sparkle of trouble shooting mysteries will dim as I grow old and I'll grow to appreciate them... heh.)

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

Oh is it now?

Don't you have an '82? YICS MOTOR?

Once the motor is in "operational" mode (YICS active) it is NOT "one plug." It's a combination of all 4; that's why we block YICS to sync and adjust.

You KNOW you have a "problem" carb, yet you keep trying to fine tune like everything was 100%.

IT ISN'T. Going to work, either. Until you fix the boo-boo carb, you are taking shortcuts.

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

Agreed, this is just simple respect.

Well, it is not a shot in the dark to replace float needles. It is a basic replacement part in every carb rebuilt. The tips are rubber and do wear. They may look ok to you with the naked eye, but it doesn't take much for them to leak. I too thought mine "looked great" but surely thet were not. I did not get the slow drip drip flooding to stop until I replaced them. And from your description of it flooding, I would be willing to bet you the cost of the needles that replacing them (provided your floats are in good order and the levels set to the proper spec) solves your flooding issue.

I know you did not direct this at me personally, but...Yes actually, that is what I would "assume" (or anyone from reviewing this thread and the symptoms you are describing) As I stated above, I did assume they were fine and were not.

Yes it is about pride. If you had not have felt that you were disrespected, them your pride would note have been wounded and you would not have disrespected everyone on this thread that was trying to help.


Obviously you are frustrated or you wouldn't have written this rant and projected yourself to be an arse. Step away from the project, cool down and then look into it objectively. You are taking shortcuts, and will not resolve it until you stop taking shortcuts.

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

Gee, couldn't have said it better myself. Oh, wait...

And you do need to learn a bit of "decorum" when dealing with people who actually do know what they're doing. Rather, a lot.

We KNOW "shortcutting" when we see it happen. And now three people, maybe more, have seen it too. And yet you persist...

When did you plan to leave for Costa Rica, anyway? Ain't gonna be anytime soon at this rate.

 

Re: Can't get tan plugs. Still hard starting. And a sticky f

Sorry Fitz, I was writing that earlier and stopped to eat dinner. I came back to finish the thought and did not see your reply. I respectfully add...

+1 to what Bigfitz said...

 

while all you guys get yourselves sorted out here, i'am going to try a colder plug. i've got just a hint of color and i'd like a little more.

 

While all you guys get yourselves sorted out here, I'm going to try a colder beer. I've got just a hint of color(BURP) and I need some more.

 

A) Where is my shortcut? I'm just waiting for information before I act. I wasn't sarcastically asking about the float needles, just no one had given me a clear answer that those could really be it, even if they look fine. I will now HAPPILY TRY THAT.

B) Does anyone like it when someone is talking down to them about something they know? Do you? Imagine for a second, bigfitz, that a mechanic is trying to explain why you're probably having problems with--ANYTHING--on some project XJ you have. Don't you think you'd be just a little irritated that he wouldn't be talking to you as an equal, thinking him above you (in this case because he's a mechanic)? Is that at all difficult to understand?

C) Thanks for the point about YICS affecting other plugs. While interesting, that effect is obviously minimal since individual plugs can still come out different colors based on individual mixture screw settings...

D) "Yes it is about pride. If you had not have felt that you were disrespected, them your pride would note have been wounded and you would not have disrespected everyone on this thread that was trying to help."

I have no problem taking advice, asking for help, admitting what I don't know. I don't have to try and prove it, you can go through my hundreds of posts and find most of them are asking questions, not giving advice, since I learned most of what I know about mechanics here. I have a very big problem taking advice from arrogant people--in fact, in all facets of life, I have trouble with arrogant people. Period. I don't make friends with them, I don't respect them, and I stay away from them. It isn't about my pride being offended--I have very little pride in my mechanical abilities, but I do know what I know, and I have researched these carbs here quite thoroughly (though there is always more to learn!). What is being offended is my tolerance for arrogance.

It also gives me a hard time in dealing with bigfitz, since he's pretty rude pretty often, and lets people know he's better at what he does than they are, and I don't think anyone should be that way. However, with him I will put up with it because he actually is absurdly knowledgeable. I wouldn't treat people the same way he does, but who's to argue with an old man who knows more than anyone else around here?

As for decorum, I give the same as I am given. Those above should never treat those below with any less respect; the greatest leader is the one who humbles himself. I'm much more interested in honesty for people who violate this; rude? Only if you can't handle the honesty. Call it what you like, I have no qualms about shooting it straight.

Thanks for the help, I'll be ordering some needles soon. I have realized the bike has hesitation until it hits 3k, so I'm starting to suspect that some silicon grease put on the fuel rail during installation (I put way too much at first) might have clogged the pilot jets after I'd cleaned everything; upon initial reassembly flow was blocked from the 3 and 4 carbs by extra grease, and then from the drain bowl of the fourth carb (some compressed air later shot it right out and it flowed perfectly then).

I'll go ahead and order those end pieces I was missing and add a needle (or set) to the list, and shoot some compressed air when I pull it off in a week and let people know if that solved it. If anyone has any more theories or info, I'd love to hear it.

Polock, I'd considered colder plugs before, but enough people seemed to thing I shouldn't, that it should just be indicative of another problem, so I put it off. I was going to try anyways, just to see, but the Autozone doesn't even sell BP8ES anymore... Let me know how that works for you, I'd love to hear.