1)CHACAL is AWESOME , 2) What's next on my xj650!?

Hey everybody - long time reader, first time writer!

First off - BIG shout out to chacal (AKA Len) - who is now my pusher man (like in the movie "superfly", except he's not selling powder). He has everything you need, will often give you multiple choices for parts you select (sometimes cheaper, sometimes better), and he ALWAYS ships super fast. Not to mention, he puts up with ME! I can be neurotic at times.

About a year ago my girlfriend bought me a 1980 xj650 to solve our transportation issues. Namely, she was using my car all the time! But what a doll she was to help me to get this bike - I was hesitant at first, since my last bike was a BMW k75, and before that, a BMW r100gs - but living in San Francisco, the city with the highest concentration of stop signs, and the most varied terrain (HILLS!), I came to really appreciate the light weight, low seat height, and overall low center of gravity. We actually got a pretty killer deal - we payed $500 for the bike, complete with mismatched side covers (didn't match the tank), and 2 brand new tires, fresh brakes front and rear. 38k on the clock, and the bike looked pretty dang fresh.

It was in pretty nice condition when I bought it, but the tune was all sorts of f*ed up. Revs would jump into the 4k range when choked and cold, and once warmed up (and off of choke), the bike would have an erratic idle anywhere between stalling and 5k. Also, it was apparent to me that the clutch needed to be replaced as well, as it was slipping at high revs.)

Needing it to work immediately, I took it to a shop a friend of mine recommended. They did a $100 "post-purchase assessment", and found that I needed a tune up. (DUH!). They were/are a great shop - and so when I conceited to do the full service tune up with valve adjustment, they waived the $100. All in all, between clutch, valve adjust, all new fluids and full service, I spent about $1k to get the bike running awesome (and it does). The mechanic also gave me great news - compression was even across the block, and about 2psi less than factory fresh.

After spending an arm and a leg at the shop - I had one of my coworkers give me crap for not doing the work myself - after all, he is the #1 mechanic and I am the service manager at a reputable bicycle shop here in San Francisco. He came with background working on cars and motorcycles, and was trying to instill confidence in me. I have been working with my hands since I was 12 years old, and I'm 28 now - but I have always been extremely cautious when entering unknown territory - and while I can fully dismantle, assess, and fix any problem on any bicycle under the sun (including all hydraulics, suspension, bearings, etc) - I rarely even do my own oil changes on my car - let alone the tear down of the top end of a motorcycle that I am depending on! With some coaxing, and holding of my hand - my coworker helped me break the seal.

My first job on the motorcycle was a necessity - the starter wasn't always working. From time to time, I'd get the distinctive single "click" sound when I hit the button. I had no doubt in my mind that it was the solenoid - but not being aware of the anatomy of the bike, I had thought the solenoid was INSIDE the starter - so I decided I'd do a starter rebuild at the same time (since I thought I was gonna have to pull it anyway).

Those of you who have done this job before should know - but for those of you who don't - the Solenoid is the first thing off the battery - not inside the starter! However, when I pulled the starter, it was clear that I hadn't made a mistake. Brushes were pretty much toast and the inside was suuuuuuppppper grimey.

Cleaned the whole thing up, got it all wired up, put in new brushes and installed the solenoid and BAM! starts up like butta, every time.

I'm approaching 5k since I did the full service, and in the mean time I've done the following:

•Painted the side covers black to match the frame (They had been candy apple red, with the tank being the purple-like color)
•Updated brake system: ss braided brake line, brand new master cylinder, and caliper rebuild kit. (the PO had used an O-ring instead of a piston seal on the caliper! Holy crap!)
•New brushes and rebuilt starter
•New starter solenoid

Things I already have plans to do (in some cases I have parts already, or have them on the way):

•New progressive 412 heavy duty rear suspension
•Spin on oil filter conversion
•New rubber for footpegs
•New pads up front (it's needed in the next few hundred miles)
•De-rust tank (there isn't much rust at all, but I want an immaculate fuel system). I will be using Metal Rescue - heard of it? Got a great deal on a couple gallons.
•Replace Tachometer oil seal and o-ring (and then clean the front of my motor real nice)
•New r. tire - it's time. Got a suggestion for a solid performer for me? But something that might last more than 5-6k?

So aside from all of this - what do you think I should do next?

 

When it hits 5K since last time, check the valve clearances.

 

Do the rear tire ASAP. This will give you a chance to inspect the rear brakes for delamination (pad material seperating from the carrier). This is the first thing to do when you get an old XJ.
Next thing is to check/adjust the valve clearances, regardless whether the shop says they did it. I personally trust nobody but myself when it comes to these things.
Doing this stuff yourself goes a long way to learning about your bike. Just my 2 cents here-good luck.

 

Thanks for the replies!

The valves were all out of whack when I brought it to the shop, and the shop is certainly trustworthy - but I hear you, and I definitely will be digging into the valves within the next 800miles or so.

I did actually pull the rear wheel not but a few hundred miles ago to inspect the pads - I had read the delamination horror stories, and it seemed like a fun little project. Rear brakes are just fine, wearing normally. Side note, I honestly hardly use the rear brakes.

When I do a valve adjustment, what should I be ready with? This is what I'd assume I should have on hand:

Feeler guages
Shims as necessary
Paper gasket
Gasket adhesive.

Anything else?

 

The best money you can ever spend for your bike is a shop manual. This is now your bible LOL. This site is your best friend for any questions about your bike. Use the "search" for topics. Post questions here, lots of good (&free!) advice. I would say a GOOD torque wrench is imperative to doing your own work. Your motor is mostly aluminum, & torque specs are very important.

 

bigfitz52 isn't harping on your mechanic, he's giving you the recommended service interval: Valve inspection every 5000 miles. You might find them all in spec, you might not, but only an inspection can tell you for sure.

It's really impractical to order the shims you need without inspecting the clearance and pulling the shims first. There's no standard shim size that these bikes go through as they age, and shim sets for a single bike isn't really worth it. However, once you record all the shims that are in your bike, you will only have to measure te clearance to know what to order.

I suggest the following:

For valve measurement:
19mm (or 3/4" is close enough) open end wrench
metric feeler gauges (helps because the spec is metric and so are the increments on the gauges)
gasket
inch-lb torque wrench
Valve cover donuts if required (I don't think they are on a 1980 650 maxim, chacal would know for sure)
Allen wrenches and allen sockets (for the torque wrench)

If any clearances are out of spec:
Shim bucket hold down tool
forceps (for pulling the shim out)
caliper to measure shim thickness (good double check even if you can read the size)

Replacement:
All of the above plus required shims

Inspect the valve clearances. If any are out of spec, pull, measure and record. Put everything back together. Order the required shims. When they come in, then go back in and replace them. That way, you aren't without a bike while waiting for the shims.

 

I wasn't suggesting that he was bashing my mechanic - if you re-read, I mention that I'm due to check out the valves in about 800 miles. It's true - I havent seen the valve clearances myself - but if I trust my mechanic (which I do), then I should be able to do the routine inspection pretty soon!

When I pull the valve cover to do the measurement, do I have to let the bike sit until I get my shims (or replace the gasket...)? Or can I bolt it back down in the time while I wait for my shims to come?

Actually - I do have one more question about my new brake set up - just got it all up and blead last night. Because of how badly they felt before I did caliper rebuild, new lines, and new master cylinder, I don't know how the brakes SHOULD feel. Does that make sense?

They seem like they are working awesome to me, but there is about 5 degrees worth of "dead space" when I pull the lever. It's not truly dead - the pads are moving, and you get the very satisfying "clap" when the pads hit (I've always told mechanics while training them to bleed brakes for the first time to wait for the applause...) And when the pads have "hit", the lever feel is rock solid, and has probably 10 degrees of movement before the MC bottoms (which takes both hands)

I am sure it's fine - but looking for confirmation!

 

No prob, just emphasizing that valve inpesction at 5000 miles is just a regular ol' maintenance interval.

No, you don't have to take the bike off the road while waiting for the shims.

If you just want to measure the clearance, you should buy everything on the first list. Valve cover gasket is recommended because it might tear or otherwise need replacement. If you mechanic replaced it last time, you probably won't need one. But if it fails or has failed, your motor won't be oil tight when you button it back up.

If all your valves check out, you just button up and your done (no need to remove shims unless you are curious). If any are out of spec, then you'll need the additional tools in my second list. Again, once you remove a shim, and measure it's thickness, you can put them all back and button up and keep on riding.

Order your new shims, and when they arrive, you pull up the valve cover, remove the old and replace with the new.

On the brakes, I'd bleed them again. Micro bubbles in your brake fluid tend to coalesce after the vibration of riding and will require another bleeding.

 

Thanks for the tips manbot! I will try it. I can safely ride it in the city right now, I'll bleed when the pads get next week - I'll keep it off the highway. But good to hear that you think that I can do better, because that's better for my braking system, which is already so drastically improved.

Loving this forum - and thanks again for all the replies and good info.

This morning on the way to work, my turn signals stopped working mid ride, same with the "dash" lights (for neutral, turn signal, oil, and beams). Headlight and brake light are still working. Since I'm at work I will have to investiagte it tonight when Im off - any leads as to what I should look for? I was gonna check the fuse box, and if not there, check the turn signal bulbs.

 

If the fusebox is original...

Anyway. In regard to the valve clearances. No, I wasn't picking on your mechanic, and I was reminding you that the interval is indeed 5000 miles. That's why it's good to learn to do this one yourself. If the last time they were done they were "all out of whack" then this time you'll probably find only one or two needing adjustment. Unless your mechanic was SO good he actually wrote down the size of each and every shim and the final clearances, then you can't even "predict" what shims you'll need.

Don't make the same mistake-- record everything.

Your pre-YICS bike has a composite gasket with separate rubber half-moon plugs on the RH side of the head. IF you're super-careful, you might not need a new gasket; again, provided the mechanic knew what he was doing. If it's glued on both sides and rips apart, you'll need a new one. If those half-moon rubber plugs on the side of the head are black rocks, order up some new ones.

Get a SERVICE MANUAL if you don't have one; the factory book for the early 650 is actually better than a lot of the other factory books (like the 550.)

Get a low-range (25~250 in/lbs) torque wrench. You're going to need it.

**edit** oh, and ManBot13 is right about the re-bleed. After a few heat cycles, a re-bleed just makes them more solid yet. You'll get one or two good-sized bubbles, betcha.

 

My mechanic gave me quite a lot of information, and I wouldn't be surprised that it would be recorded - I will check and see if the info is there. Thanks for the tip!

I fully intend to do it myself! I trusted my mechanic did it right, and was intending to stick to the 5k interval (as stated in my original post)

Thanks for the tip on the half moon bumpers! I'll check them out.

And for the fusebox - it's on the list! thanks for the suggestion, we'll see what I find in tonights skirmish after work.

•Record everything: Check (already begun, ain't stopping soon!)
•Original 650 manual: Check (though I have a digital copy. May buy the paper to make working on my bike less filthy for my computer)
•Low range AND high range torque wrench: Check (my shop has like 5 work stands with both on them)

 

@bigfitz - So yah - the fusebox! Deffinitely next on the list. I believe mine to be stock, and the fuse holders have no spring! The lights stopped working because the fuse was not making a positive connection. I will have to place another order with chacal to get this fixed asap. For the mean time, I steel wooled the fuse itself to clean some burning that was going on on the outer fuse terminal, then put a little tiny zip tie on the top of the tong to help it hold until I have a suitable/reliable fusebox.

Thanks bigfitz, and everyone - this is the type of information I had hoped to get by putting it all on the table.

Keep it coming! I love this baby and want to make her totally rockin' and awesome for years to come. There may be more xj650's in the future, but this one will always be special to me.

 

Hi Tombo, earlier you mentioned that you hardly ever use the rear brake, well you can certainly ride anyway you want to, but you should know that you are missing out on 25% more braking power than just using front brakes alone. This advice could make the difference in whether or not you hit something. Rear brakes aren't there for looks.

 

just a note on the fusebox, len has them but for something so simple, jsut head to your local autoparts store and get a blade style fusebox and some crimp connectors - only 10-15 bucks total.

then, next time you're at your local pick and pull, just grab a handful of fues outta a car.

 

@lvsteve -

I do use the rear brakes - they are there when I need them, and they are used appropriately. When I stop, I use the front brake mostly, and have my right foot on the pedal - keeping the muscle memory is important to me, that's why I do it. As far as "not using the rear brake" - that's mostly to say that I use the engine brake more so than the rear brake for slowing, and my front brake handles the brunt of it. I do ride cautiously, and my "stopping muscle memory" does includ having my rear foot on the brake pedal, slightly depressed (to engage the brake light, and to encourage proper stopping procedure), but only biting when necessary.

 

@mtnbikecrazy55 I have already ordered from chacal, the price isn't much different from what I saw at the auto store, and there were a few other things I needed anyhow.

 

glad to hear you're covered, good luck!

 

Just don't squeeze the fuse clips together; they'll break.

Or if you're really lucky, one will break all on its own. Which is how I discovered that the clips crystallize over time; this was long before I joined this forum. I just wanted to go for a Sunday morning ride; but one of the fuse clips had decided to break off all on its own and was just laying there, taunting me.

 

Bigfitz - totally. I think it will hold until my order gets here next week - but yah, my old fusebox was the problem, the "signals" fuse wasn't being held tightly, and was actually burning up the outside a bit.

 

Brake bleed update!

I have done a few more bleeds, and certainly got it to improve quite a bit. Many methods - gravity, standard MC pump style bleed, mity vac bleed, and last but not least, yamaha's instructions (keep reservoir cap installed, pump brake 3 or 4 times, and hold it where the pads hit, then open bleed screw, let lever depress slowly, then reseal.)

All of these bleed methods showed improvement to the point where I was pretty much ready to put the heat on for about 200 miles before my next bleed - but I figured, 4 people have suggested to tie the brake lever back over night under significant pressure - and BOOM, probably a 10% increase in brake power - and the master cylinder engages the pads to the rotor in about 5-8mm of lever engagement (which is what yamaha says you are going for).

I want some help justifying WHY this works - my only guess is that by placing the system under pressure, you make the bubbles smaller, so they are easier to travel, and therefore, easier to slip past the master cylinder bore and into the top of the reservoir. Is this why this works, or is there something I haven't thought of?

Anyways - thanks for all the advice - my brakes are now happy, I will update you on how my other upgrades go once the parts arrive!

PS - anyone who hasn't thought of, or is on the fence about replacing their old rubber lines with steel - WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR!? The brake powere is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful (I am able to lock up the front wheel and put it into a skid! That's incredible for a single rotor system). I do not suggest you try this on your own - but I could think of no better way to see what these brake lines would do than really baring down. Couldn't be happier with the upgrade!

 

Len has been a huge help to us as well. Congrats on your new passion