Newbie from San Diego

What's up guys, I'm Dave. I live in Vista which is in the northern part of San Diego...I just bought an 85 Maxim 700. Already wondering if it was a mistake.
I bought her from a impound lot in Ramona, the guy claims it was running fine when he impounded it but after sitting a couple of months it doesn't start. Hoping it was a simple (and cheap) fix I talked the guy down to $300 for it. Checked her out today, there plenty of gunk everywhere so really hoping there's no serious engine issues. We think she needs new ignition coils (and plugs)...Yamaha wants $150 per set which would already double my purchase price....then I still need new handlebars (bent) a new passenger mirror and brake master cylinder and handle, fix the leaking oil seal/gasket and obviously a complete carb cleaning overhaul.

I'm taking the motorcycle safety course next weekend before I take my test. I bought this bike because I'm literally bankrupting my family due to my new job costing me about $600/month in fuel! My wife is an out of work nanny so that's not helping, so I bought this inexpensive bike to hopefully have a good starter bike and something much more fuel efficient than my truck.

If anyone in San Diego or south Orange County has any sources for parts (other than the salvage yards in Escondido and Chula Vista) please let me know.
...anyone feel like coming out to help diagnose? Beer and food is on me

 

Yo Dondada469 Welcome to XJBikes!

We can help. Whatever you do forget about the stealership, they wanted $50 for an air filter I got for $16. On this site at top right is XJ4Ever, they are extremely reliable, A+ service, and their prices are reasonable. You can also find used parts online and at Cheapbay. Not as reliable as XJ4Ever but another decent source if you shop smart.

Start with cleaning the bike as best you can. You can use degreaser, a brush and a hose to get most of the gunk off. WD-40 or similar to clean electrical connections.

Why do you think you need new coils? They can be found online much cheaper. I think I have the mirror you would need, and the master cylinder, and have a set of bars but they are cruiser style (don't know what your looking for) and would sell em all to you cheap.

The carb cleaning is all detailed very well on this site, just do a search. The gasket can be had as well (XJ4Ever).

The good news is once you get the bike running and it might take a few $$$ to do so, at the rate of your monthly gas consumption you will have it payed for in two months and from there its all savings!

 

If i was closer, I'd be down for beer and food!!

Deff did not make a mistake, as once you get her back on the road, you'll fall in love with her.

in terms of parts, look in the buy/sell area on here for the bars/mirror/mc/lever and then head to xj4ever for the other stuff, Len has everything.

Sure it's going to cost a bit to get her on the road, but you'll make your money back in no time if gas for work is costing 600 bucks a month!

Welcome!

 

Thanks MercuryMan,
I'm exteremely new to this stuff so I don't even know what cruiser style bars would mean compared to stock.
As for the cleaning, this is CA. We're not allowed to do anything haha. Unfortunately she's parked at my friends place (at a condo with a HOA) so I wouldn't be able to do that kind of a cleaning until I can get her started and at my place. I did want to take the carbs off and do a rebuild but he told me why waste the money until we know we can get a spark. As to why I think it's the coils, he used a multimeter and only got reading to the plug boot before the coil and nothing after...no spark when attempting to start. I'll probably need a new battery too since we were using his battery to jump start it.

As for air filters (mine is covered in gunk) do you guys recommend a foam style like the one I have in there, K&N style or something different?
I haven't found coils anywhere. Until someone mention Chacal who has aftermarkets for $150 that I haven't ever heard of or found anywhere else.

Cheapbay means e-bay right? lol

 

Dang California is as bad as the UK! We no longer need inspections here and most HOA's just have parties and don't really bother anyone.

Your 85 came stock with a cross between moderate style cruiser bar & a sport bar. Basically this refers to the geometry of the bars. A true cruiser style puts your hands in almost vertical position knuckles forward (think harley or chopper). Sport or Euro bars will be closer to the tank and put your hands horizontal like your punching the air. Cruiser bars tend to make you sit back while you ride where drag or sport bars pull your posture forward.

Before you spend $$$ on coils check over the other possible causes. Check your fuse box under the seat for good fuses and no corrosion/cracking. Check all your connections, TCI (your transistor ignition) under the seat, voltage reg. behind side panel, and connections behind headlight. Also your plugs might be fouled. Although if your getting strange resistance numbers that's not good. Be sure and check primary res. by unplugging coils and checking between those two wires (coil side) and secondary by removing the plug caps and checking from wire to wire. Battery must be fully charged as well when trying to get good spark.

If you still have the stock box you could pick up an OEM filter for around $20 or less.

yes cheapbay is ebay that's what I call it because if you look long enough and strike while the iron is hot you can get stuff cheap-but beware there are some rip off sharks on there for sure. Coils come up from time to time and you should be able to get them for a reasonable price. Just be careful and ask the seller questions to confirm fitment and quality.

Like these maybe:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/86-YAHAMA-XJ700 ... f0&vxp=mtr

 

Well I was looking at the newer Shadows and liked theway the handlebars felt on that if that helps. I feel these bars are a little too close together, but with one side being bent in that could be the culprit too ya know?

What would I check on the TCI?

Will coils from a 1983 550 Maxim work?

 

Welcome.

 

The ebay listing is ending real soon....will coils from a 1983 550 Maxim work?

 

Sure wish someone with firsthand knowledge would answer this for you. I don't want to steer you wrong, Yamaha was notorious for reusing as much of their tech and parts as they could to save $$ so often things that can be used across the models is conserved and not changed. I would think coils are in this category but can't be 100% sure. Sorry.

Have you examined your existing ones and compared the listing? Asked the seller to verify fitment? Called Yamaha? This forum is usually the spot for just this question, but sometimes the ridiculously knowledgeable Yamaha guys miss a post.

If I had seen your post earlier I would have bumped it then.

 

Thanks but the listing ended. They looked identical but couldn't find an answer here or through a google search.

 

It's more the HOA thing -- we don't have inspections in CA, either. From what I understand, how dickish the HOA is depends on who's on the board. Some can be cool, some will go so far as to dictate how many strands of christmas lights you can put on your house, and what color. Oh, and don't think for a second that the insanity is limited to California.

Like MercuryMan said, measure from plug cap to plug cap (1&4, and 2&3) on the 1K ohm scale. If you have continuity (about 12K ohms or thereabouts) then the secondary coils are good. Measure across the two wires going into the coils on the x1 scale -- you're looking for about 3ohms or less.

Next thing to check would be the sidestand switch. If that's stuck open, that would explain no spark.

I'm close, but I'd wager my work schedule is incompatible with yours, which makes things difficult.

 

Where abouts are you? Also, whats a sidestand switch and where is it? I'm beginning to think this bike is going to be a nightmare. Isn't the fusebox suppose to be under the seat?? If so somehow there's only 1!

 

Where abouts are you? Also, whats a sidestand switch and where is it? I'm beginning to think this bike is going to be a nightmare. Isn't the fusebox suppose to be under the seat?? If so somehow there's only 1!

 

Stop.

First off, understand what you're getting into. A proper resurrection on a nearly 30-year old bike is going to take some work, and between $600~$800 to get it all done and done well enough to be safe and reliable. And that price assumes you'll be doing the work; that's the basic outlay for parts and a few special tools. It doesn't include "cosmetics" either.

Your first investment needs to be a SERVICE MANUAL. That will help you understand everything you'll need to do; which is to catch up on almost 30 years' worth of neglected maintenance.

If you're expecting this to be similar to buying an '85 used CAR, think again. This is a completely different game. You can't just buy an old bike and expect to start riding it; it's going to have a multitude of "problems."

These aren't problems; they're the outward symptoms of the results of sitting for years coupled with often ignored maintenance. Your XJ is a high-performance machine, not a Chevy.

Your sidestand switch is part of a "safety circuit" that prevents you from starting the bike in gear or riding off with the sidestand down. This system consists of a neutral switch, sidestand switch, sidestand relay, clutch switch and safety cutoff relay.

To properly diagnose issues with it or any other of the bikes' many "systems" you'll need wiring and circuit diagrams, which are found in the service manual.

GET A BOOK. You're going to need it (already do, apparently.)

 

Like MercuryMan said, measure from plug cap to plug cap (1&4, and 2&3) on the 1K ohm scale. If you have continuity (about 12K ohms or thereabouts) then the secondary coils are good. Measure across the two wires going into the coils on the x1 scale -- you're looking for about 3ohms or less.

We only tested 2&3 (because I forgot 1&4 in my wifes car) but we measured 22k and .4

....yes, I have a service manual on my flash drive

 

I knew I shouldn't have said that. I'm real nervous about letting people know where I live, so let's just stick with "close" and leave it at that.

A better word to use would be "kickstand"... which is also where the switch is located. It cuts spark to the engine if you put the bike into gear with the kickstand still down. If that switch is stuck open, same effect.

On the 85/86 model, no. You say you have a service manual -- it should tell you/illustrate where the fuses are (near the instrument cluster/ignition). Prior model years (like my 82) did in fact have the fuse panel under the seat.

12K for the winding plus 5K for each plug cap; 12 + 5 + 5 = 22. That coil is good. If the other comes up with similar specs, then coils aren't the problem.

 

Typically I only get like 30-60 minutes here and there too work on the bike after work since its at a friends house, and my cellphone battery is usually just about dead by then so it's kind of like cramming for an exam. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can and narrow it down to possible causes. My kickstand switch stays off even if the stand is down, looks like its another thing that broke when the guy dropped the bike. I'm glad to hear those coils are fine but I guess it's back to chasing down this no spark issue. We'll test the kickstand relay system next I guess :/

 

Which xj700 do you have? If you have the X(with the radiator), there is the added complication of that to deal with, not hard, but a consideration. Like Fitz says, get the manual. Also get it to some place where you can work on it for extended periods. Trust me, the first time you go through the carbs, it will take you a good 6-8 hours to properly clean them, and you don't want to have to spend a week doing them. Everything that needs to be done, you can do, but it takes time and patience to do it right. When everything is done, and done right, you will have a machine that will give you a smile that you can't wipe off your face.

 

No radiator. Have he manual.
The plan is to get her started (fired up) first and then I'll bring her to my place to work on it. My buddy is the ex-mechanic so he has the tools needed to do testing.

 

You may not have that luxury. Quite often "firing her up" is ONLY the end result of quite a bit of work, it's not often accomplished without.

You might be better advised to find some other way of transporting the bike to where you can work on it. Otherwise you may be fighting with it for a while...

Not to mention that you shouldn't be riding it yet, with 30 year old brakes and all. READ: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=15874.html

You might want to keep that manual in the umm... reading area. And read it every chance you get; familiarize yourself with the machine. Read the "maintenance" section over a few times; it's going to be your bible for the next few WEEKS. (Months? like most of us?)

You cannot rush this and have it work. It will only end up taking longer. I'm not making stuff up, I'm speaking from experience.

 

As we go over this bike more I can't help but regret buying this bike. If the seller didn't live so far away I woulda brought my friend with me and he would have noticed the things I didn't: Broken master cyclenoid for the front brakes, clutch switch attached by just electrical tape (to make it look in tact), missing cover on the right side of the engine....broken kickstand switch. etc...

Any way, we still can't figure out the no spark issue. We've tested the coils, the clutch relay, the sidestand switch etc....we were having a hard time figuring out the pickup coil system though. The manual has horrible pictures and the colors they called for in it don't match what I have.
So can anyone tell me what I should be looking for when testing the pickup coil?
Also...any other suggestions on what to test to figure out how to spark her up?



Fitz, I definitely plan to do full maintenance to the bike before taking it on the road IF I ever get her going. At this point I may give in and get rid of it. I'm actually looking at another XJ700 tomorrow though so we'll see how that turns out.

 

The MC is not a big deal. Here's a brand new one that should work for you-(be sure and double check fitment with seller). I might have a used one you could have for $5.00 +shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-FRONT-BRAKE ... 48&vxp=mtr

The missing cover is also available and if you shop around and find one that needs polishing it shouldn't be expensive.

What is confusing you about the pick-ups? It's just a reluctor (the crankshaft driven rotor) passing one of two pick-up coils which generates a current. To test it just remove the connector and test resistance between the the two sets of wires. Should be 520-780ohms. It's usually not the problem.

To make sure you went thru the procedure. You have the bike in N, the battery is charged, your plugs are new, you pulled the plug caps off the wires to see if there is spark from bare wire to engine block, you've removed the headlight, pulled of the seat/gas tank and checked/cleaned all your wiring connections, checked primary and secondary res. on coils. If you've done all this and do the pick-up res. test and it all appears good and no safety switch is blocking your spark then your TCI is to blame. Hard to test, harder to fix, easy to buy. :-(

Are your sure your clutch switch is working? It sounds like it might be compromised if it's been taped up. If so you can ground it to bypass it and see if that's causing any issues. But even so it should still start in Neutral as long as the N signal is making it through. If not then that's a likely culprit.

What are you using for a manual? My best suggestion would be to realize that 99 times out a 100 it is something simple. And as frustrating as it might seem at the moment, the fix is a liberating and educating process. Obviously any old bike you buy, and really even new ones (if you choose to work on them) will throw you a curve ball and make you want to kick the seller-but...well...read my signature end line.

 

It's the Yamaha service manual I downloaded off a link someone posted on her that had manuals for all the XJ bikes.

We bypassed the clutch switch and still no spark.
When you say the plug caps, do you mean the boots that the plugs sit in? If so I didn't know they were removable. Yes, new plugs.

Not sure how to really clean all the connections other than spray some WD-40 in them, but they are all kinda corroded just like everything else on the bike, (nothing has a polished look)

 

I have the virtual version and never use it, had better luck with the paper versions.

Yes the caps are removable and often this connection can be a problem. You simply grasp them firmly and while unscrewing them gently pull until they pop free. You can snip off a small section of the wire and gently re-screw them in place to ensure a good connection, but check the spark from bare wire to engine first.

The electrical connections can be cleaned with a wire brush, sandpaper, emery cloth/board etc. anything that will expose good conductor-then smear with di-electric grease and reconnect.

 

Thanks Merc.
Where did you find a paper version? I thought they never made one for my model?

 

ebay. There should be one available-Yamaha made them for every model otherwise they would have been getting sued due to all the mech dweebs who would have been guessing. You should be able to find an AM manual for your bike Clymer or Haynes. Just be sure and check here if you have any doubts as there are a few mistakes-eg the clymer says to check secondary resistance between one plug wire and the coil..uh sorry wrong answer! But for the most part they are really good as well and helpful.

 

Ok, after looking at the second bike today I realized I have a lot more missing things than I thought (I'll make a second post soon) and the sidestand switch is indeed broken. On the bike I saw today, if I pressed his switch in,it wouldn't crank at all, basically killed the start button. On mine it will crank regardless of whether it's pressed in or not. So my question is: since it cranks regardless, would that be able to prevent a spark or is it being bypassed? If it's not being bypassed, is it possible to bypass it even if just for testing purposes? Lastly, if the sidestand switch is not the culprit then the only thing I can think would be the TCI but Merc said that it's difficult to test. I wouldn't want to buy a ew one just to find out that's not the issue.

I took the boots off the plugs today and still no spark.


The only reason I didn't even offer the guy money for the bike today is due to it not being registered for 2 years so it would be about $300-400 alone for back fees.
I liked the bike because I think it would just need a carb rebuild, and then I would Frankenstein the bike with the turn signals, brake light and gas tank from mine. If I don't start seeing progress soon I might just get rid of this bike and look for something else.

 

Can you post some pics (lots from the sound of things) of the problem areas on the bike. From what I've read over the last two pages it sounds like the bike was in an accident or at least laid down. Also, never believe a seller that says it was running before it was put away because they are usually lying, unless you know the seller that is.
I'd seriously consider looking at getting a runner since you may be getting over your head with this bike if you are not very mechanically inclined or have the tools and a place to work on it. You may end up putting a bunch of money in it only to sell it cheap after becoming frustrated (like it sounds now) with just the no spark problem.
There have been a few people on here that have bought a non runner with good intentions of resurrecting an old bike, only to give up and lose their shirts in the process.
What ever you do decide, good luck and we'll try and help as best we can.

Cheers, Graham

 

Thanks Maxim-X, honestly I think I'm at that point already. Even though I'd love to restore a bike for the challenge of it, I'm in a position where I need something running now.

P.S. I was wrong about the back fees being 3-400....I looked it up and it would actually be $629! I feel bad for the poor sucker who ends up buying that bike and not realize the fees owed. Hopefully whoever buys it from the guy knows this in advance.

 

Dang those fees are outrageous! What a money maker for CA, how in the world do they not balance the budget?

You can do some basic testing to expose the TCI as the culprit and that part is fairly easy to do-it's finding what is exactly wrong inside the TCI that's hard because it has a number of solid state components and it only takes one to screw up the whole deal.

1-check with IGN on for + 12VDC on the red/white wires going to the ignition coils and the TCI
2-low pulsating voltage between orange & black and the gray & black coming from the pick-up coil connector going to the TCI when starting
3-make sure the black wire is properly grounded (continuity)
4-pulsating voltage on the orange and gray wires coming from the TCI going to the ignition coils when starting

If these tests are negative:
1 indicates no ignition signal voltage being sent: bad connection, bad switch, bad diode, safety kill switch, etc.
2 bad pick up coil
3 usually a broken/shredded wire or a loose ground connection
4 all else good then it indicates TCI problem (so 1,2,3 good & 4 bad=TCI bad)

Keep in mind that the TCI's can be damaged, if for instance you jump a bike with a running car battery, you reverse the battery leads, you short from +12V across the ground. I've even heard of them being damaged by pulling apart connections with the ignition on. Also they can get hot where they sit or they can get condensation for the same reason and this can make them go bad. So with amateur mechanics messing around and the inherent problems, they do go bad. Test as much as you can since it's cheap and might get you to the issue.

 

I got in way over my head trying to tackle this bike, I'm just selling it. I have it up for sale on Craigslist, but if anybody on here would be interested let me know.