Help with POD filter installation

I also want to remove the airbox and put pods on. My question to y'all is what do I do with the hose going from the airbox to the crankcase? What needs to be done (other that carb tuning) to have the pods on.

Thanks to all

 

At my local auto parts store, I found a filter that fits right over the tube, and has similar looks as the pod air filters. A couple of bucks.

 

I highly recommend doing it right. The breather is very important to crankcase ventilation and simply putting a filter in the line is not the best method. The engine is designed to extract fumes from the crankcase for a reason.

I run pod filters on my XS1100 and had a mate make me a "contraption" that I designed to imitate the plumbing that exists in the XS airbox. Made from stainless, it not only looks good but is functional as well.

SOme pics to show what we built.






I did have a prototype made out of reticulation fittings that worked well but looked like cr@p.

 

I agree with Hired_Goon. Getting the vent routed up into the pods will keep your oil cleaner and will cut down on pollutants.

I doubt it's necessary to route the vent to all the pods. Just into one should do the trick.

 

Big waste of time. Just don't let the vent hose get clogged and you'll be fine.

 

:lol:
Thanks to all for the replies, I have bought a mini-pod that fits right on the crankshaft opening and will try that.

 

I win!!!

 

Don't use a filter, putting any kind of filter on the engine breather tube is actually a stupid idea. I don't use any filters, just a hose pointed down.
If you think about it why do you care if the air coming out of the engine is filtered or not? All the filter really does is keep out bugs and dirt.
The filter can be hazardous to the engine if it gets coated with oil because if it does then air can't flow out and pressure will build up inside and start blowing out gaskets. Don't make the hose longer than one foot either or too much pressure will build up inside the hose.

 

I know you can do the open hose thing and be ok, but, I sure do like the fitting, engineering and thought that went into the one Goon made.

I personally have a problem with that hose being open for the elements to be able to get into,..... we have lots of dust here that could contaminate an engine.

One could however get a differential vent and vent the crankcase that way.

 

The breathing characteristics were discussed in detail in a thread not so long ago. (edit: Here) Basically due to the way an engine operates the breather also sucks air in as well as venting pressure out. Particularly in the cooling phase and possibly with any heat reduction by riding into a rain storm.

The system should be "sealed" against the elements as per the original design of the airbox. A small filter is better than nothing but it does add to the maintenace tasks.(cleaning) They will get clogged with oil and oil attracts dust.

A better option is to route it to the pod(s). However, just routing it to one pod could end up with one carb running richer (burning oil fumes) than the others. Particularly if the engine is a bit old and tired and has a bit of piston blow by.

I basically built my system (and yes, it's a bit over engineered ) to beat a few problems.

1. I'm lazy and knew I'd never get around to cleaning a tiny filter.
2. I Built it to imitate the piping in the airbox. (Look inside and your airbox breather will probably port off to each carb opening)
3. My bike wasn't licenced and over here that means a trip to the police inspection pits. I wanted to make sure they couldn't pick on any emission problems related to to the ventilation system.

4. Most importantly, it was free.

 

I have to politely disagree with you ArizonaSteve. The crankcase vent pulses with both positive and negative pressure (suction), slight but it is there. I would strongly recommend a free-flowing filter (K&N makes a fine case breather filter) to prevent unwanted debris from making their way into the case. Yes, it is a small hole and on top of the motor but the suction part of the equation is what I'm worried about. It'll pluck the dust right out of the air, and over time will get into the internals. Not to mention the blow-by gases (polution). Ultimately I would encourage a system such as the fine example HiredGoon cobbled together. Mother Nature needs all the help she can get from us. Please visit the link Goon posted, it is a great way to learn a little bit more about the issue your up against Johnt.

 

Thanks to all again for your help, I had another question about the Petc**k vacuum pipe?

Where do I connect it if there is no longer a Airbox?

Thanks again and keep on riding...

 

It normally slips over a brass nipple on #2 cylinders' intake boot, between the carb and the head.

Connecting the petcock vacuum line to any place on the airbox would not work.

Any vacuum source between any throttle butterfly and the head will do.

 

If you leave the hole open you leave it open for just about anything to get in there especialy moisture.

 

Hired Goon,
I just got done checking out your "contraption" as you call it. I am thinking about the pod mod on my chop job, but the reason i was going to attempt it, was to clean things up and get rid of that big airbox. It would make it so much easier to work with the carbs (which looks like another ordeal re-jetting to allow for the pods increase in air flow)
I noticed when I got my bike, the previous owner had the vent hose running along the frame, just pointed down. I left it that way, till I seen a post where it was hooked up to the airbox, and sure enough...there was a place to hook it into. After hooking it up, the engine began to run alot better at idle.
So now I guess I will have to find a wy to hook it into the pods, like you did. I had the same idea, but instead of the solid lines, I'd go with some kind of non-colapsable hoses and a small filter like the ones you get from an auto store. Anyways...thanks for the idea! >pd<

 

So that I don't have to take my breather boots off can any one tell me the out side diameter in MM"s of the inlet side of the carb?

 

Hi,
You guys put on an informative read here.
I have a 82 xj750 maxim. I am currently putting on a Mac 4-1 exhaust, A dynojet stage 3 kit and k&N pod filters. I guess there are two options for the crankcase hose.

1. I am considering connection the crankcase hose to the pods.
or
2. Just leaving the hose and putting on a mesh of some sort to help prevent anything from entering it.

What do you suggest for better overall performance and less maintence?. I am not too concerned about the environmental aspects.

Thanks a lot for your replies to this.

 

This was my solution. However I don't ride in the rain or on wet roads. If you put one on your vent tube and tuck it in there shouldn't be any problem.

 

Sorry for the ststststudder and tiny pic.

 

Here's a better pic.

 

Hey xjJeff where do i get a lil filter like that? And off topic how did you make those cool side covers?

 

I found the filter at Advance Auto ($7.00). I cut a template from paper for the shape I was looking for then cut a piece of 16 gage steel and de-tempered it and shaped it with my 30 year old leather hammer. Here's the latest pic of Frankenstien.

 

yeh, that's pretty similar to the filter on min, but mine is round... like a little hockey puck.

 

Re: Vent pod filter and keeping the engine running

I did the samething on my 550J with a $15 filter from Dennis Kirk, maybe one of you might help with keeping the engine running even when warmed up and riding for 45 minutes, and still wants to die. I changed the pilot from 35s to 40s it helped a little. Can anyone help with my problem?

 

That's the same type of thing I have as XJJeff, except mine is at the end of the tube, I left the tube connected to the block, and my filter is up higher in front of the battery box to help keep it out of the rain a bit more if I'm ever stuck in the rain.

Looking at Hired_Goons creation, I commend him on the effort, but I have to say I think that design is not the best function.

The stock connection of this breather tube is to the bottom of the stock airbox, which on most bikes I've seen, is still outside the stock air filter, so the breathers moist residual is filtered before entering the carbs, his creation is giving a straight "unfiltered" shot of that oil based residual from the block to go directly into the carbs and intake. It's not feeding in through the filters, they are around the outside of that end cap he's tapped into.

After a few years my little filter gets quite dirty with that sticky oily residual from the block breathing, would I want my slides, free moving parts or that small crack in the butterflys I need to keep free moving and clear, getting coated with that stuff? No way. If truely filtered, I'd have no problem letting it feed back into the intake, but his setup is unfiltered and shooting directly into the back of the filter pods base, bypassing any filtration.

Again I commend him on thinking a little deeper into the block breathing issue, but I still think just putting a filter on that tube is the best, once you've removed your stock airbox. It's what everyone and all dragracers I know have done. Plus don't forget to treat those open K&N filters with K&N's red oil filter spray that helps filter the smaller particulates.

 

Fair comment Russ, and to a certain degree, I totally agree.

But, a lot depends on the condition of the engine. Mine breathes very little out the vent so the fumes going into the carbs are minimal and get burnt up.

The original purpose of the crankcase connection to the airbox is to create vacuum to extract the blowby gases from the crankcase. This prevents carbon buildup(sludge) inside the case. Even regular frequent oil changes will not keep the inside top of the crankcase clean.

And remember, drag racers strip and rebuild/clean their engines often between every meeting. :wink:

The breathers on my XJ550 and XS's all enter the airbox between the filter and the carbs so is therefore not running through the filter anyway. I am 90 percent sure that the 650's and 750s are the same. Filter elements are dry filters so if oily fumes were added before the filter then it would clog up and kill the bike in no time.

My design (Yes, I concede it is overcreative) is an exact replica of the piping inside the factory airbox of that bike.

But in the end, it's up to the individual as to how they want to maintain their bike.

Cheers
HG

 

With all due respect, yours has block pressure just like any other engine that has pistons that move downward as well as upward. Being yours doesn't make it exempt, the vapor residual isn't highly detectable to the eye, but it will build up over time, those little filters nasty up over time because of it, course contact with air helps that, so your might not inject as dirty of stuff. I just think in a few years all that gunk that will build up on a small filter is going to build up on your slides, and turn your venturi's blackish around your butterflys. It's just funny to me, it's the first I've seen anyone worry about building something like that with such concerns over the block pressure, maybe you will be lucky and it won't trash your carbs. Maybe even be like a small oil injection system? hmm, could maybe help compression? LOL

HG, with respect still, that whole sentence almost sounds like a fantasy about what we could wish for what to be happening.

An engine won't run without block pressure having a method to vent, or your gaskets and seals would do nothing to keep oil contained, it would spew like a newborns diaper with no OUT for the block pressure and stall. There is no design to it for cleaning purposes? Carbon doesn't build inside the engine cases, only combustion chamber, exhaust and top of pistons/valves see carbon buildup, carbo's a residual from burn gases. Split cases and it's all oil coated, good rings and an oil ring pass very little cylinder pressure, that's the only way spent burned carbon could get in the casings. Oil itself does the cleaning and lubing until it's breaking down.

Add a supercharger to an engine and you have to do extra things to vent the block pressure, sometimes even a pump. The only place to vent block pressure to is the airbox to be mixed with the much larger amount of air heading back into the engine. Plus its a federal requirement for the manufactures to NOT allow block fumes to the open air.

The only dragracers I know that tear an engine down between every race are Top Fuel, Funnybike, and Prostock, the Pro Classes. There are far more amature racers in this country then Pro's with a big budget, even the next fastest class, "Pro-Mod" people I know aren't so rich they can do that every race, most hope to get at least 1 to 2 full seasons out of their bikes, hoping they don't have to tear into it too often from a failure.

I commend you on the deep thinking, :mrgreen: just be careful you don't end up with brain matter on your monitor, take some advil, I have no doubt you take very nice care of your bikes.

 

Well Russ, After reading your post the most I gained out of it was to reinforce the theory of correct crankcase breathing. It basically confirms that the pipes should be run through the intake. You seem to fully understand the concept of the breather but still chastise creativity for a cheap and nasty alternative.

And Bingo, You got it in a nutshell with

No manufacturer (except some diesel engines) vent to atmosphere any more. Putting a little filter on your vent does make it illegal by venting outside.

As for that rampant dribble on crap in my carbs, well time you went and had a look at some blow up parts diagrams of XJ airboxes. NONE of them vent through the air filter. All vent tubes enter the intake after the air filter.
They might go through a little kotex filter that probably hasn't been cleaned since 1983 though. Same crap in mine as everybody elses.

You have put a lot of effort into justifying a cheap and illegal fix. I commend you on your frugality and disregard for our environment.

But since I will never be right and you will never be wrong then I shall only refer you to some more useful reading. While we don't use PCV valves the principal is the same.

Wikipedia

Mrfixit

And of course

EPA regulations for those with lots of time.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do everything. Usually the right way is not the cheap way, but the right way was a cheap way for me. Made from 304 stainless for the grand total of $0. Oh, and 1.50 for the four grommets.

Sometimes ya gotta think outside the square to solve your problems.

Cheers
HG

 

Geeezus HG, you must have been one of those kids that got picked on a lot. You can't even discuss something with others of indifferentiating opinions without acting all butt hurt?

I wasn't attacking you, I even commended you thinking further into something most people won't, but your outta line saying the shit you did, stop yer cryin, I don't know everything and neither do you, and that's ok for both of us.

I simply disagree with your design, at least I went about it with some humor, and said "maybe you won't see buildup in your carbs."

I just think if your going to worry so much about it Mr. Greenpeace, you should connect it to the intake boots (post carbs) with a 4 way splitter from the larger crankcase tube, even use a small PCV valve if it picks up any idle but I don't think it would.

Just pull up to any motorcycle hang out or mountain stop, and look at all the bikes, most who will put on a pipe, & remove the stock airbox will just have a filter like mine, or an open block vent line, without going so in depth over it, and run ton's of miles without it ever causing any problems, and they're certainly not going to be ticketed for it.

Just that your in a small populis of people for what the normal thing most do about the vent line, it seems over thought.

That's all, and it's just my opinion, don't take it, please leave it since you have a problem with it. Let us know when you learn to part the water Moses.

 

Ok everyone, just back away from the keyboards. I think there's some misunderstanding of tone here. I don't think anyone came out attacking anyone, so let's just chillax.

Where'd I put that fire extinguisher?

 

Spot on oblivion.

Don't worry Russ, no need to get your back up. Yes my posts may seem a bit serious but it's just because I'm too damn lazy to look for emoticons to highlight the humorous parts.

But sometimes shock value gets a point across better than pandering to peoples over sensitivity. :lol: <<there, found one. :lol:

Mr Greenpeace is a comment I would like to expand on though. Simply put, I am a parent. While I don't have a cure to the worlds problems, I do attempt to make a conscious effort to do the right thing wherever possible to try and make sure my kids, and one day theirs, have a healthy environment to grow up and live in. I do sometimes frown upon things that I see that take very little effort to make better, but that is just the way I operate.
My contributions are minimal in the global scheme, but every bit helps.

And as for parting the waters, well If I was capable of that I'd have ridden over by now and we could discuss our ideas over a beer. 8)

 

You are a truely a gentleman HG, I am grateful to see you carry yourself in such a manner. My hat is off to you. Beer is on me if you get out here. And your environmental consideration is right on the money, it's about your (and others) children's future. What greater purpose could one think of?