Old Bike, Possible New Project.. New to Mechanics..

Fitz.........the 650 maxim control is not quite the same as the 550 maxim control. There is an extra ground wire on one of them but not the other. They ARE all the same as far as fit, and plugs, etc.... but that one wire is different. One has the additional ground through the wire and the other has the ground just through the handlebar. The wire created a better ground, as the bar-only ground had issues at the bearings. I went through a lengthy lesson on that earlier this year and learned a whole lot more about electrical current at that time.

So yes, they are interchangeable as long as you account for the extra wire.......

 

Ahh, good old Yamaha. All the same part number; slight variations in the parts. It's not the only part that's like that. I was going by the fiche.

 

No probl.....just letting you know, that's all. I went through that earlier this year with another listmember as we were juggling parts all over to get a working control again. That's how we came across that.

Dave

 

Thanks again Dave for helping me with that control I learned a thing or two about the starting electrical circuit too after it was all said and done!

 

No probl! It was good to find out, and it was an interesting discovery!

dave

 

I have seen R/H Controls from other models substituted for Stock.

The Quick-connect Plugs are different.
So, ... the miss-matching Plug-in's are removed and swapped.

 

Thing is, on the ones that Moellear and I were working with.....the plugs ARE the same. The extra wire is what needed to be accounted for......it was extra grounding to provide for better electrical systems grounding, rather than just the contact ground of the switch-handlebars-clamps-fork-frame via ballbearings ground, which is a weak ground.

Dave F

 

Extra Wire? Ain't nobody got time for that. I'm gonna get confused.. I know nothing about electrical systems and hoping all my lights and blinkers work or I'll need outside help.

On a better note, Haynes Manual gets here Monday! I can't wait! Tax return needs to hurry up so I can order tools.

 

Scream, it's not anything you need to worry about. Just make sure that whatever you get is from a 650 maxim, not a 550 maxim. The 650 one simply has an extra ground wire in it. the 550 just has an empty hole in the plug. (the 550 will actually work, but you'll not have as good a ground through the handlebars.)

Dave F

 

And just to add to hog's point. Seriously, don't worry. There is nothing electrically complicated about our bikes, save maybe the TCI. My 550 control works great-as long as your main ground is intact and the bars are not made of non-conductive material-it will work.

Don't over think or second guess things before you actually get 'hands-on' experience with it. The case of the extra wire phenomenon was discovered by just such experience and nothing replaces that. So press on forward-be confident that any troubles you experience not only can, but WILL be solved. Like what Rick said there is always more than one way to solve a problem.

 

Got my tax return, so I'm about to order some tools. I sent Chacal an email and he sent me a nice list of everything i would need, but all of it is out of my initial price range for maintenance tools. Would I be able to do most everything I need right now with just this?:

HCP1959 OEM original style DELUXE BIKE TOOL KIT,, original style plastic fold-over-flap pouch with the embossed "Yamaha" name across the top. Contains: a pair of pliers, an interchangeable-blade screwdriver handle with a fat #2 phillips blade and a long reversible double-ended #1 phillips / flat blade combination; an 8/10mm, a 10/12mm, and a 14/17mm set of combination open-end wrenches; a 19/22mm combo closed-end wrench, 5, 6, 8, and 10mm allen key wrenches; a mini-spanner wrench for the steering bearing ring nuts; and a 14mm spark plug "socket" tool. Will work for all bikes with 14mm plugs, meaning all XJ650 models, all XJ700 non-X models, all XJ750 models, all XJ900RK and XJ1100 models. Looks very authentic.
$ 79.95

I'm planning on getting that one (or the step under it, but for the extra money I figured this was worth it). I'm just wondering if it can accomplish everything I need right now. I have a set of small socket wrenches and a friend of mine has a torque wrench I could borrow if needed. Hoping to start on my bike real soon (as soon as I get the tools in).

On a side note, I got my replacement exhaust in and my Haynes Manual (which I bring to work to read) and waiting on my replacement rear shocks. Still gotta find a right hand control, though I may have to wait until Monday when I have more time to search.

 

ScreamingG,

I can't begin to compensate Len and XJ4ever for what they've done and continue to do for me and our members here so I am not in any way trying to take business from them. At some point I intend to remove the chain from my bike and replace it with one of these tool kits to make sure I have the necessary tools should something need adjusting while riding. Right now you shouldn't be riding your bike distances that would make it difficult to get it home. IMO you should take that list somewhere like ReTool, Northern or Harbor Frieght and buy you some decent inexpensive tools to get started. Once you have used those tools and have applied knowledge you can upgrade to better tools. You said your money is funny. I understand that all too well. XJ4ever simply cannot be beat for service, quality, accuracy and shipping as far as parts for these bikes are concerned. IMO that's where you need to spend your money for now. I'll admit, I was skeptical when I placed my first order but since then I have no complaints and to be quite honest how they receive, fill and ship orders is kind of a joyful mystery around here. I've purchased a new rectifier, stator, ht caps, gaskets, grommets, friction plates, running lights conversion hardware, fuse box, petcock rebuild, gas cap rebuild, mc rebuild/sight glass, ss brake lines and a lot more. Everything fit perfectly. Install quality proper parts in a area correctly then move on to the next area. You don't want to fix something over here, then go to fix something over there and have to come back and rework the area that was suppose to done because the parts failed and you just did it. As far as the control switch is concerned...have you posted a WTB (Want To Buy) thread in For Sale, Purchase or Trade Forum? There are several members parting out bikes that might have a control switch you can get for cheap and rebuild. I checked E-bay and I didn't see any for the 650. Hope this helps.

Gary

 

The on-bike toolkit, while a good idea at some point, is NOT what you need to get the bike operational. The on-bike tool kit contains real basic things for quick roadside situations.

You could spend less than that $79 at Sears, for some basic mechanic's tools to get you started.

Do you need a list of "real" mechanic's tools that you would need?

Do you own any tools at all, maybe a 3/8" drive socket set?

 

i agree - the onboard tool kit is just for if you're stranded on the roadway - NOT for doing the maintenance to bring your bike back up to par.

Harbor freight tools may not be the best - but you can get the tools necessary to get your bike back on the road safely.

THEN, further down the road you can start slowly upgrading to craftsman/snap-on/mac/etc. as your finances allow - and then pass the HF tools onto another up-and-comming mechanic.

Heck, I still use the set of metric combination wrenches that i got from them for 19.99 on sale - tolerances seem spot on, and have always worked great.

http://www.harborfreight.com/14-piece-m ... 68790.html

 

I wholeheartedly recommend again that you only buy what you need when you need it! Determine what job you want to do and either figure out what tools are required or come here and ask us and we can direct you to ONLY what you need for that job. Your better off sourcing these tools locally to be honest because there will be no shipping fees and you can usually go back to the store and swap out or get a replacement easily if they break.

Another option is to go to your auto parts store and see what they have as part of their 'loan a tool' program. You only have to give them a deposit and when you bring the tool back your money is returned-as in FREE.

Sears is your best bet for decent tools. But the stuff that can't easily be screwed up or doesn't matter if it isn't the best can come from Harbor, but like all things you do get what you pay for.

To start with you must have decent screwdrivers, a decent socket set, needle nose pliers, metric allen wrench set, spark plug socket, an impact driver, and some larger spanners. Those are all essential to almost any job, but buy only what you need when you need it and you will save yourself $$ and frustration.

 

"To start with you must have decent screwdrivers, a decent socket set, needle nose pliers, metric allen wrench set, spark plug socket, an impact driver, and some larger spanners. Those are all essential to almost any job, but buy only what you need when you need it and you will save yourself $$ and frustration."

If you were to ask me - this is the basics i would say START with:

Socket Wrench
Socket wrench exension
Metric socket set - 6pt preferred, 8-22mm
Metric wrench set - 7-22mm
Metric allen wrench set - or allen head sockets -4-8mm
Vice Grips
Needle nose pliers
Screwdriver set
Spark Plug socket
Spark plug gapper
Feeler gauges
Rubber mallet
Torque wrench if you can afford it, but it really is something you should have - especially if you havent done alot of wrenching - the money spent on a torque wrench is way cheaper than the frustration and financial loss caused by snapping off bolts.

I'll update this if i think of anything else, but that should be a good start -

 

The thing about Harbor Freight is that if you get stuff on sale at Sears, you can get lifetime-guaranteed Craftsman for the same price. Tools are a lifetime investment; I've been collecting them for over 45 years.

That's a good list, and pretty much covers the basics. I assume by "socket wrench" you're referring to a 3/8" drive ratchet and extension(s)?

As for allen wrenches (hex keys) get a long-arm metric set (it can be a very basic set, you only need a couple of very common sizes) and a 5mm "bit" for your ratchet.

The torque wrench can be handled through the Auto Parts Store's tool loaner program if you're not ready to make the investment.

 

If you shop at the Craftsman Outlet Store, ... you can get up to 75% off a set of tools that were bought, opened and returned or repossessed.

http://www.searsoutlet.com/255-pc-Mecha ... ng_length=[0%20TO%20100]&flt_sp=[0%20TO%2055000]&flt_shipping_width=[0%20TO%20100]&flt_shipping_height=[0%20TO%20100]&pn=1&ps=24&pid=64694&mode=buyUsedOnly&itemSelectionType=all

 

Agreed on what they ^ said. That's a good list mtnbike. I would add a few dentist instruments for those difficult to grasp parts like those "tiny" mixture screws, washers, springs and o-rings. A mirror and a set of tweezers would work. I'd also add a mini-flashlight.

Gary

 

Wow, Rick, no kidding! I had no idea. I throw the stupid plastic "totes" away anyway, and it's pretty hard to screw up a wrench.

SG, here's your hex key set: http://www.searsoutlet.com/13pc-Hex-Key ... onType=all

 

Thank you so much! It is a bit out of my price range, but I decided to purchase one anyway. It was $150 +tax in my area, not bad for 255 tools that actually cost $300. Thanks again for this link!

I have a question about my Haynes Manual. On several sections it lists different model XJs. The XJ650 G, H, LH and J (for tire pressure and whatnot). It doesn't list my XJ650K. Which of those letters would work for mine? I want to make sure I follow correct procedures for my bike on some of these maintenance issues.

Thanks!

 

That last letter (on Maxims anyway) is just the year designation. "J" is 1982 "K" is 1983. So if yours isn't there I would say the "650J" is probably the closest to your Maxim.

BUT, I wouldn't use anything in that old book for tire pressure. I would go by what the manufacturer recommends. Those tire pressures in the Haynes manual were written for the tires that existed in the early 1980's, not modern tires(which I hope are what you have).

EDIT: Oh, I just saw the part about you buying the original tool kit. +1 on bigfitz's comment. Not to try to talk you out of it...Nothing wrong with that and you probably already ordered it, but to my way of thinking, that's just for somebody looking to fully restore their bike to factory condition. I don't mean you USE the tools to restore it, mean: "it's even got the factory took kit!" As you could put together a much better kit for carrying on the bike yourself.

 

I learned about the letter/year designations from hogfiddles, I just wasn't sure which models were actually similar (if any) to my bike. I do need to get an on-bike toolkit sooner or later. One of the routes my friend and I plan on taking takes us a good ways from civilization, so a toolkit would be a very wise purchase for me. Though now it will have to wait, as I have to save some money for tires and a right-hand control. Can't wait to pick up the toolkit and get to work!

 

Well, looks like Sears cancelled my order. None in stock so they cancelled it.. Dang.. Will either of these suffice until I can afford a nice set later this year:

http://www.harborfreight.com/105-piece- ... paign=Feb6

http://www.harborfreight.com/130-piece- ... 68998.html

 

Just got my shocks in. I'm wondering if I need those metal rings in the center of the ends like the one has? Do I need to order some?



Top right has one, the other three do not.

 

The Metal Rings are called "Bushings"
Depending on the O.D. of the Mount, ... you may or may not need them.

Shock-Eye Bushings are a readily-available aftermarket product.
You'll find them in a wide-variety of shapes and sizes.

They come in various colors, too.
Rubber or High-performance Polyurethane.

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/En ... k-Eyes.asp

 

Ah, okay. I wasn't sure of the name of them. Could I use the busings from my old shocks with these? The old shocks aren't bad, just far too terribly rusty for me to clean.

 

If they're not worn-out, ... sure.

Wash 'em and soak 'em with Armor-All.

 

Well, I ended up not going by Harbor Freight. A friend of mine told me to check out Lowe's (since Sears was out of the Craftsman Refurbished Toolkit). They had a Kobalt 227pc Mechanic's Tool Set for $150 (Regular $200) so I snatched one up. Got finished tonight putting all the pieces where they go. Can't wait for some time off to start wrenching on the XJ!

 

So I put the new exhaust and rear suspension on today. The exhaust flanges were not bulky like the stock ones so there's a gap between where the flange is and where the block is. Will this work?

Also, I swapped out the master cylinder, but where the electrical plug hooks up, it is different. The old one has a solid core plug.in the middle And the new one just has two metal fins where I'm guessing something should just hook to it I'll try and post pictures, but it may be a few days, as my computer died and I'm waiting on my new one to get here.

 

For the exhaust flanges: as long as you used new gaskets, and tightened them evenly you should be fine. Most aftermarket systems have a simple stamped flange welded to the pipe the proper distance out from the head to "mimic" the original, cast flanges. New gaskets would be the key, along with proper torque (not a lot, only 7.2 ft/lb IIRC.)

Is this "new" master cylinder new; or just a different used one? The "two metal fins" are probably connectors for a brake light switch.

And you are replacing the brake lines, right? With NEW parts?

 

The exhaust end that goes into the block doesn't go 'in', they meet at the hole lip. I wasn't aware it needed to be torqued down, I just tightened it by hand, I'll have to borrow a friend:s torque wrench. I haven't put gaskets on and didn't notice any there, though I plan on getting some, was mainly getting a fit for the exhaust (gonna have to get someone to bend.the kickstand bar that is used to drop the kickstand, as it hits the exhaust now).

The MC is brand new. I bought it from my friend that sold me the bike.

I haven't gotten new brake lines yet, I was hoping to get steel braided lines, but with the AGM battery I need to get being more Expensive than I thought and other things I'm needing to buy, I'll probably just stick to OEM.

 

There are gaskets; they usually get so pounded into the head you have to dig them out, and a lot of folks don't realize they're even there.

Check it out: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=29356.html The ends of the pipes should "go in" a few MM before meeting the gasket.

As for using a torque wrench, yes it's a good idea but we're only talking 7.2 ft/lb. You need a low-range torque wrench for this and many other things on the bike.

You might also want to read this if you haven't already: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=41400.html

 

Thanks! My gaskets are probably pretty jammed in there, I'll take a look this weekend for sure.

This is the MC/Handle I have, the plug I mentioned is the same as in this:
eBay Master Cylinder

Is there any way to adapt my current wiring to this?

 

Also, will something like this work for my brake lines? It says universal, I just gotta measure the size this weekend, but if these will work, they are real cheap compared to what I've found elsewhere.

Brake Lines

 

I'm ASSUMING, that all the brake switch is - is just an open circut that gets closed when the brake is pulled - therefore, i would assume, that if you just crimp/solder slide connectors on the stock wires, you should be able to plug them into the blades on the new M/C no problem.

 

A $34.00 Master Cylinder.
Remember: You get what you pay for.

At thirty-four bucks, ... it was probably made by a 10 year old orphan, earning 75-cents a month, handcuffed to a workbench, in a windowless factory, with the exit doors chained shut, no heat, the ceiling dripping when it rains, with a loudspeaker blaring-out the shrieking sound of a 33-1/3 recording of the Chinese National anthem, skipping on Gramophone Player, that a one-armed deaf and blind guy cranks thirteen times every time he receives an electric shock.

Or worse.

 

haha good late night imagination, rick

Polock has one, he seems to have had good luck with it.

 

I'd be more wary of cheap, "universal" unmarked, unbranded brake lines (oh, but they'll last forever) than I would of the aftermarket M/C.

 

Agreed. Don't scrimp on brake lines. They aren't expensive anyway. New custom SS lines should never be more than $50 per line. I had one made for $38 + tax. Even a short visit to the hospital (if you're lucky) will cost 20 times that much or more.

My rule for 'shopping' is NEVER buy the cheapest thing or the most expensive-you're being ripped off either way. Usually the 3rd or 4th item from the bottom price is a good, decent product, and just above the mid price is usually a great product.

Also per Rick's more real than imaginary comment, I try to buy as local as possible. Enough $ is leaving already.

 

Okay, so after watching eBay I finally found and bought a Master Cylinder, got it in and the dang thing was painted over. So the cap and the screws are all stuck. I tried using an exacto knife to cut around the screws and cap so I could unscrew them, but the screws just ended up stripping.

I contacted the seller and they said they could exchange them, they asked if this would work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/350752419839?ru ... 26_rdc%3D1

I've been trying to find info and I can't seem to find anything that states whether or not the XS650 Master Cylinder will work. The one they sent me looks like the screws may very well be rusted in there and not able to be taken out.. Seems like the issue I keep running into..

 

You can SAVE a Master Cylinder by Drilling-out the Screws holding the Lid on.

The Screws are soft.
They are easy to drill.
Have it done by somebody who has a Drill Press.

After the Lid is removed, ... Drill-out the Screws to the next oversize.
There's enough stock to be Drilled and Tapped.

After you get the new holes tapped, ... you have to Drill the Cover Holes to the oversize.
The Diaphragm Gasket Holes need to be enlarged too.

A Single Hole Paper Punch makes a nice clean hole in the Gasket.

 

You do plan to rebuild whatever junk master cylinder you get off eBay, right?

If I were you I'd quit trying to find just anything that "might work" get a correct M/C for your bike, rebuild it, and move on. Somebody else's used master will be just as in need of rebuild as an original correct one.

 

Yes, I intend on rebuilding the Master Cylinder, I wasn't aware I could drill the screws on it. I'll ask a guy I know if he has a drill press. He's also going to be bending the kickstand bar (the bar that drops it, not the kickstand itself) so it won't hit the exhaust I put on.

 

Okay, so I pulled the bike out today to do a few things before it got dark. Found out the screw holding on the right hand controls was rusted and I couldn't get it out (already stripped too). Tried to drill it out with no luck. I have a replacement one, but I can't figure out how to get the throttle cable out without opening up the controls. Also haven't been able to find anyone with a drill press to drill out the screws for my Master Cylinder.

Completely forgot to measure the brake lines to order new ones and I think I broke that plastic piece below the headlight that says 'YAMAHA', though I need a new one anyways as this one is yellowish.. Any clue what it is called so I can look it up?

 

The piece on the front is the "fork emblem". If it's just yellowed, repaint or rechrome it. If it is actually brittle and broken, then keep it as a spare once you find a good one.

You can't get the throttle cable out without opening the controls. The cable hooks into the throttle tube on the inside of the housing.

Use a dremel and make a new screwdriver groove. If that still doesn't work, grind the head off, or make a couple flat sides and grab it with small vise-grips and twist it either out, or off. Keep working at it.

If worse comes to worst, then just break it apart. There's plenty more of them still out there......

Dave F

 

I think a buddy of mine has a dremmel, never thought about that. I did try drilling the screw out, but that didn't work. I already have another one, the old one on the bike has a busted starter button and I wanted a good one and not the makeshift one that I have now.

 

Recreating a flat head slot is the easiest way to remove a small stuck screw. It can also be done with a drill and a small bit by just angling the bit along the screw surface from the middle to one side and again the opposite way. Also be sure and saturate the whole area with penetrator to loosen it's grip. Drilling a screw out is where you remove the 'head' that is holding 'whatever' and then it can just slide off what remains of the screw-but then you will still need to grap the nub afterwards and unscrew the threads.

 

Great News! My girlfriend talked to one of her coworkers whose husband does work on bikes. He came by today and will be coming by on some weekends to help with the bike. He's bringing an easy out tool next weekend to try and remove the screws and also gonna help do the rest of the work on the bike with me. I'm excited!

 

Let your friend know that if the EZ-Out attempt does not work-out as
planned, ... simply drilling the remnant to the next oversize is a simple solution.

The remnant if SOFT Steel.
Drills easily.

The M/C is Cast Aluminum.
TAPS easily.

The Cover Holes can be drilled easily.

The hardest part of saving the M/C by drilling-out the remnants is sizing the Holes on each end of the Reservoir Diaphragm.
A Single-hole Paper Punch will do that trick.