seca turbo very hard to start

hey there, i hope u dont mind but i have a question about my 2 seca turbos. i am restoring them, and i finished one, and it is very hard to start, carbs are cleaned, not synced due to no tool and not alot of time to make one,it acts like its almost like it is flooded, wont even spit but will eventually (about 15 min of cranking) start and run very rich for a few, then rev ok, but idle badly. what, in your opinion could be the problem? also the fuel pump does not come on, but works when jumped directly to the battery, is there a relay, or fuesable link somewhere? also, this particular bike was stored since 1985, but was told it was stored proporly, and so far it looks to be true, the bike is mint, and would love to ride it, but im slowly loosing the love for it cause of this prob, the other bike is an electrical nightmare, talk about okie, jeri, and any other kind of rigging you can come up with, but showed promise by starting then stopping right away. back to my original question, more fyi on the bike, it did puke oil out when it finnaly started, but is gone now, and when im cranking it, it does smell like it is flooded, and did observe once some fuel comming out of the collecter on the bottom of the exhaust, is there some quick tricks to test what may be going wrong? please help, thanks

fellow turbo lover!

 

My Turbo can be hard to start as well. Sounds like your carbs are out of synch though. I suspect you need to adjust the pilot screws as well. A set of sticks and a colortune would probably have you in the saddle in no time.

Greg

 

If you have gas leaking out the exhaust, you should check to see if your crankcase is full of fuel. If so, do not start the bike. The thinned oil will not provide any lubrication and you will wreck your motor. You might have a fuel check valve stuck open. It is a small valve located between the middle two carburetors, which has the feed from the fuel pump going in one side and the return to the tank going out the other (through the fuel pressure regulator valve, the little brass contraption with an air pressure line going to the top of it). Make sure it is fuel. These bikes will often spit out quite a bit of moisture from the exhaust. Oil will make its way out into the turbo if you have a badly seating oil check valve, which is located at the lower left front of the motor, between the two leftmost headpipes (a big hexagonal fitting with the oil line coming from it. You must pull the outer head pipe to get it off. It's a simple ball and spring check valve to keep oil from draining into the turbo when the motor is off.

My bike cranks for about 6-7 seconds before it lights up, and that's with new rings. These bikes are hard to start, even reviews from 82 stated this. 15 minutes is WAY too long though. If your fuel pump is not running, you will starve for fuel when the boost comes on and prevents the float bowls from filling. There is a relay just behind and at the bottom left of the headlight to control the fuel pump. There might be a number 5A8-00 on it.

Pull it out. Point the prongs toward you. There should be a red mark on the case. This must be oriented toward the top.
The two prongs on the left are the relay contacts. Measure the resistance. It should be 100 ohms. This the the resistance in the coil windings of the relay. If it is infinite, the coil is open. If it is much less than 100ohms, there is likely a short in it.

Now, connect the relay to a 12V source, touching the negative to the bottom left prong, and positive to the top left prong (you should probably hear a click). Use a multimeter to check the resistance between the upper and lower right prongs, again, putting the negative to the lower, and positive to the upper for consistency. You should see infinite resistance with no power to the relay, and zero resistance with the power on to the relay. If you power up the relay and resistance between the two right prongs is still infinite, the relay is no good. Keep in mind that the plug and relay contacts should be as free of corrosion as possible. It is also possible that the relay may click close, but have pitted or broken contacts inside. This is why you must measure the resistance of the two right prongs.


Are your plugs new?

 

Welcome to you Boostedsupra! If your in need of a little help and within an hour or so of Ventura, I'd be happy to help you with the problem. I'm not a turbo guy but I do know my way around an electrical system. I also have a YICS tool and Colortune.

 

Check your plugs or replace them. I have a turbo and am in So. Cal also. When I first got my engine running I had the same problem. It didnt get fixed until I found a new engine. Sounds like the problem could be worn rings.
Water coming out of the right side of the exhaust is normal during operation. I will be parked engine off and have a droplet or two hit the ground. Guess that is how all of the right side exhausts have rotted out on the bottom.
Sean

 

ok, here is an update, and thank you all for all the good tips, i will put them to use when i calm down after working on this thing, lol, after working on these all weekend, focusing most of my attention on the mint one, plugs are new, carbs are clean, compression is good, bike will crank......and crank......and craaank till the cow come home then leave again, it is not starting due to this thing being sooooo flooded, fuel is dripping from the drain hole in the left pipe (sitting on the bike) and the crank case was completely full, so full it was spilling out of the fill plug, so heres what i did, first drain the oil, drain the carb bowls, took the intake tube off the turbo, and it poored out fuel, drained the fuel from the intake, put fresh oil in, left the gas tank off, and this darn thing would still crank forever, finally got it to run, remember, no tank, no fuel in the bowls, it sat there and idled, a little rough, for a couple minutes, i quickly hooked the tank back on and gave it fuel so i can take it around the cornere, before i could put the seat on.....it dies, crank it, crank it, aaaand crank it, flooded again, so i sit there and ponder, "what the hell could be doing this" ive worked on alot of bikes, its what i do as a hobby, but never had i had one flood it self to death, so i took everything back off, and re checked all my bowls, took the turbo intake pipe back off the turbo, GAS!!!, and alot of it, just in that very small amout of time, its filling up with so much gas, it just chokes its self, so, taking some of your advise im going to look at the gas valve to see if it is stuck, but not now, im too frustrated, lol, and a new problem has come about, probly my fault, the started grinds and is not making contact with the gear in the tranny, so i switched it with the other one, that i know is good, SAME THING!!! now i have something internal wrong, not cool. a friend said it may be a nylon bushing on the gear that was brittle to begin with and the gas finished it off, so, into the shop its gonna go, i dont tear into motors, my second turbo ran, took a bit but ran, thats gonna need some wiring, and just some tlc, carbs are junk, so i will clean those, but i was tired, sunburnt, and frustated so i did not work on it. and lastly, my v-45 sabre started right up, lol, it has been sitting since 1992, just cleaned it up, gas was turned off to the carbs so i said, aww what the heck, and to my amazment, there not plugged, but thisfunky header pipe has got to go, i like the stock ones better, so off to fremont salvage i go this week to get some mics parts to put this guy back together. some of you have offered to help, and thats great, im in stockton, i love to work on these things, any bike really, so just e mail me and well knock out prob's on both our bikes i'll let you all know how things go later this week.

 

These bikes have to be run regularly to stay happy.

The starter clutch will probably sort itself out with another oil change or two. Likely the thinned oil is allowing the roller to slide on the shaft rather than grabbing it tightly and spinning the motor. You DID change the oil, didn't you? Of course you did. Your battery must also be FULLY charged or you are going to be frustrated. There can be enough juice to spin the starter, but not enough left over to create a spark. A common sign of this is a bike that fires when the starter button is released and the motor is still spinning over.

These bike are notorious for filling the crankcase when left with the fuel tap on. Just ask turbobob on the http://www.turbomotorcycles.org website.

I'd go for the check valve first. The floats are often not up to sealing against the head pressure from the fuel level at tank height if the check valve isn't working properly.

Turn off your fuel when the bike is parked.

 

Great, I don't wander up to Stockton often but I do get up that way once in a while. I'll keep you posted on my next venture.

 

ok, here is another update, i picked up a v-45 magna in mint condition for 100 bucks. so i have been working on that, man, that thing is sweet, so now i got back to the turbo's, the little check valve that lets the gas in the carbs, both were stuck, one was stuck closed, and the other open, i have fixed the one that was stuck closed, and have yet to put it on the bike, i am assuming since the carbs were not getting fuel, and now are rebuilt, it will work, i am going to pull off the other set today, and first check the needle and seats, some one had mentioned that those would make the engine flood like it is, cant see how, but i will replace them anoways, so i will update you all by ths weekend hopefully, i am in the middle of looking for a new place to reside, so it is kinda hard to work on them.

 

Sounds like you are getting a handle on it. If the fuel valves are stuck open, that can cause it to flood.

Man, I wish I could find a turbo 650 around here...

 

Mine also takes about 5-10 seconds to start, and always needs a choke unless run within 5 minutes.

Amazingly, after 25 years, and only 8500 miles, it runs great! Perfect idle when warm, and smooth as silk.

My only issue is a very clunky shifter, though that may be normal?

Jim :brow

 

The tranny on this bike is not the slickest I've used, that's for sure. The problem is exacerbated by the bushings in the linkages wearing out and adding extra slop to the action. My new/old GS1100 shifts like a dream in comparison. Yamahas aren't noted for their smooth gearboxes anyway.

The fuel flooding issue would definitely be affected by the fuel check valve. It should not open with less than 3psi of fuel pressure. If it is stuck open, you will probably get way more fuel than you need into the carbs. You might also have a faulty fuel pressure regulator. If it is stuck at max pressure, you now have 14psi of fuel pressure feeding the carbs whenever the bike is switched on. There is no way the floats will seal against that kind of pressure. You should only get that when under boost, to counteract the turbo boost's propensity to blow all the fuel out of the float bowls under pressure. You might try swapping the regulators between your two bikes to see if that makes any difference, after you try running it with the freed-up valves. That's the only way I can think of that your system would fill up so quickly with fuel.

If you think your regulator is stuck anywhere along its stroke, you can apply a bit of compressed air to it through a tube to get it to move (20psi or so). I used a bike pump with a length of rubber tubing. Seemed to fix my fuel starvation problems under boost. I also shot a bit of silicone lube into it beforehand.

 

At what mileage do the bushings tend to wear to make the shifting hard? I only have 8500 miles on the bike. Is there any kind of lube, or maintenance that can be done to loosen it up a bit?

I do know that the shifter is adjusted a bit high, so moving it down might help a bit.

Thanks,

Jim

 

I think that the bushings they are talking about are inside of the engine not on the shifter itself
The shifter is adjustable to wherever your foot is comfy with shiftpoints. It all depends on how much you want to wrench it.



Robert when can I make my appointment to come on over and borrow your YICS tool and your colortune to use on my turbo

Sean

 

ok, here is some good news....aaaand a bit of crummy news, i took both sets of carbs off both bikes, re did both pair, put them back on the bikes, my low mile mint one is no longer leaking and flooding out, but the starter clutch problem is still rearing its ugly head, man, i forgot how sweet the turbo surge is!! took a few times of rolling the throttle back, but damn! the starter clutch is so bad now that i can not get it to start again, my other one, the one i was told was a junk parts bike, is also running, 3 times the milege, but still runs ok, first gear under heavy acceleration pops out, clutch is worn, a little noisy in the cam chain department, and to top it off, i thought the turbo or motor was toast, due to the heavy smoking out of both pipes at first, then just the main one, so i ponder....ponder some more.....and thought, i better see if the turbo may be junk, check some end play, so i proceed to unscrew and pop off the pipe, and wholy mother of god, what looked to be about 2 quarts of oil came out, lol, no wonder the damn thing would not boost up, lol. now its all clean, fires up immediatly, cleaned up ok too, but here is a question, is the starter clutch hard to replace, and where is it? how do i get to it? i really want to drive this bike, i got all 4 bikes running, i am still fighting with the clutch on the honda sabre, but it runs. not bad for a 200 dollar bike, lol. got the magna for 100 bucks, sweeeeet. after some feedback on the starter clutch, i will give another update and hopfulle hook up with some of you for a cruise!!!!

 

Starter clutch requires the cases to be split...Not an easy task, but can be done.

 

The bushings I am talking about are located on the short shafts that link the foot change lever to the actual pivot point on the case. There is at least one bushing on this set up that wears out and introduces a lot of slop into the shift.

Starter clutch is located just about dead centre of the lower end, deep inside the cases. If you look in at the lower case, just behind the block, you will see a bulge in the case. The starter clutch resides below this bulge. You will have to pull the motor and split the cases to get at it. It is a big job (I did it last summer), the only thing left in place is the crank, rods and pistons, and gearbox. You can pull the engine out, and put it in by yourself, but it is a HEAVY job. I'd be tempted to do a couple of oil changes first to see if you can restore the necessary grip between the pinch rollers and the shaft they grip (probably iffy, but worth a try). If no dice, you have your work cut out for you. I know of at least one guy who replaced the springs and rollers in situ, but there is no way I could have done it myself. Also, drop one part, and it's case splitting time anyway. Why not run some regular dino oil through the bike and just bump start it for awhile?

 

ok, get aload of this, my turbo that was doomed to be a parts bike by the previos owner is now running, and driving, does ok, still does not rev to much past oh say 8k or so, from further investigation, its looks as though it is still sucking oil in through the intake, not alot, im going to keep boosting hard for a few hundred more miles and see what happends, now to the bike that im about to burn, my other seca turbo, the real nice one, is really ticking me off, for weeks i have been battling probs on this, i will start with the new 50 wgt oil i put in it to help with the starter clutch probs, it seems to want to correct the prob, but as soon as it does, i have to crank so hard on the poor thing it falls right back into doing what it was, (crank crank grrrriiiind). so i thought what the hell, i checked the carb bowls since i was having probs with them before, full of gas, ok, now what, crank on it some more, nothjing, so i pull the plugs, BONE DRY!!! now im thinking first you drown yourself to death, now you dont want anything, so now im asking myself how can the carbs be spotless, full of fuel, and no gas gettting to the motor, so..... i pull the dumb things off....again.... and check them, just for good measue, no probs. so i got the idea ok, i know the other bike runs great, so i took those carbs and put them on the other bike thinking, well its gotta run, they work on the other bike, NOTHIN!!!! same stupid problem, so i changed tanks, fuel pumps, EVERYTHING!!!! nothin. so, my question to all of you is, (since now i am back to square one and dont have ither of them running) what would be the problem, i know these are "pressurized carbs" and all, did i not put the carbs back on the motor correctly? are they maybe supposed to be leaning back tword the motor? did i damage something taking them off? i have drivin this bike twice, the last time i did about a week ago, it ran super good. a crap ton of power, it sounds like now it wants to go, but still not enough fuel. any input on this would be great, im about to send this one to the junk yard, or burn it to the ground. i guess there has to be that "one" that is the time you get your but kicked, well this is finally the one

 

ok, here we go again, got the darn thing to explode into action, now it is not reving past 7k or so, starts popping and sounds like its running lean, any info as to a good "genaric" setting the piolet screws should be at? or do i still have a prob somewhere else? lol

 

I wish I could help, but I am relearning the turbo myself.

Please post your work and results for the rest of us.

Thanks,

Jim 8)

 

ok, i have now gotten both running. fuel regulaters and needle and seat screens being plugged were the colprate, plugged tis and plugged that. i will be starting a new topic about the same bikes since now they are running i have new probs i canot track down the problem and despratly need help. hope this thread works for other peeps.