XJ650 Turbo Oil Pan & pump swap, can it be done??

Hey Guys!

I'm planning a turbo for my XJ900 engine and wanted to use the XJ650 turbo oil pan and pump. I heard that the XJ650 turbo had a scavenging pump built into the main pump, is this correct or was that external? My big curiosity is where did the oil input to the turbo come from??? I've never seen a picture of the source and I'm dying to know where this might be possible? Would this swap be worth it our should I just modify my current setup? it looks like a bolt on procedure?

 

Let me help you out with some pics. I am going to go the opposite way, putting the 900 parts into my existing 650 engine. I think someone had already managed to fit the 650 scavenge pump to an existing 650 non-turbo engine. The pump was internal. The oil input for the turbo came from the side under the motor, i have attached a few pics. Also another member has tapped his non-turbo motor for an oil feed I believe. I am also planning to put megasquirt on mine and then do the 900 head, crank, cam, cylinder swap. One question that comes to mind is how do the 900 cams compare to the 650 turbo cams for duration. Is there too much duration for turbo use? I don't think the 650 turbo cams fit the 900 head. I also notice the 900 valve cover has different bolt locations for securing it to the head yet the 900 head still has the holes tapped for the 650 valve cover bolt locations? Has anyone noticed this? Also, is the 900 exhaust and intake port locations/spacing same as the 650's?

 

Thank Farmer for replying! I've been scratching my head for awhile. On the photo with the oil input next to the oil filter. Is that a stock port or did you tap that? Or is that a split off the oil cooler port? I can't tell from the angle? It looks like your sending the oil back to the stock turbo location. I'm planning on relocating the oil cooler under the bike with an increased capacity and inserting an intercooler where that is now. I want to modify the oil cooler sandwich to accept AN fittings and that might be too tight with that setup, but I'm not sure?

 

hey guys im the guy he is talking about that tapped and did the turbo pump swap in a n/a engine. If you have a n/a engine then you have to drill and tap the the oil passage hole if you look at the front of the engine look to the right of the oil filter where farmer has a pic of you will see a casting mark that looks like it should have been tapped but its not i drilled it out and tapped it for a 1/8th pipe thread to -4 and ran a 45 fitting works great. now as for the pan and oil pump does the xj900 use the same engine case and alot of same parts??

P.s i would love to stick the 900 parts in my bike and turn it up lol

 

Man am I glad to see you're back on here! Your's along with farmer's build have inspired me to build a turbo.

I work right next to the Borg Warner world headquarters and I decided to talk to a few engineers there. They were awsesome to deal with and very helpful. They connected me to Mike over at Southeast Powersystems in Florida. This guy is a Turbo guru! I've narrowed it down to either the k03-2072 or the k04-2075. I'm probably going with the k03 because of the part availability is amazing and the cost is half. I think it's very similar to farmer's gt1749v but has a little more room for cfm. Common on VW 1.8L engines.

Isaacson06, when you turbo'd the first time with your gsxr600 throttle bodies, did you upgrade your injectors? I think they are 16lbs? I have a 2003 gsxr600 throttle body and I heard conflicting stories on this. My injectors are clogged anyway and I need a replacement, so I don't mind upgrading to a larger cc for a 150-170 hp goal. I currently have a hayabusa external pump from 99 with an integrated fuel regulator. Will this work or do I need to start over with another fuel pump and a rising rate 1:1 ratio regulator?

How has your experience overall been with microsquirt? The more I learn, the more I love this thing! It's expensive though. I located my CLT in the same location as yours, behind the right bank of cylinders in between the cooling fins. What was your average running temp for you? I've rear as high as 225 there. Worried that's too high. I want to relocate that in the oil pan and get the true oil temp reading.

 

with my gsxr 600 throttle bodies i used stock injectors ran at 53psi i am going to put bigger ones in this winter im going with a set of 550-660cc ID injectors there kinda pricey but the driveabilty is great. now on the fuel pump get rid of the external fuel pump and go with the pump i have it pulls very little amps and its a self regulating pump at around 53-55psi witch is good pressure the only reason i say no external reg is for room plus its not really needed.

I love my microsqurit i believe thats the only reason my n/a engine has lasted as long as it has yes its a little pricey to get setup but dont you want it to start and run great in and out of boost?? also i am willing to help you with the tuning and setup. If your not in a hurry to get it done i have a fun that owns a cnc and im going to have him make me some billet intake boots that fit the gxsr throttle bodies correctly and i could have him do 2 or more sets the reason i say this is cuz at the end of the year when i tore the throttle bodies off the boots where tore up really bad cuz you have to bore them out to fit.

On the coolant thing it depends you say your sensor is where mine is but is your temp sensor bottom out to the cyl ?? mine is i see temps of 250-290 on really hot days i run a koso cluster and plan on installing my oil temp sender next year also because thats what i care about

on the turbo dont go with a vane turbo like farmer i bet its fun having boost low end but its alot more fun having it pull harder on the topend (farmer im not hating on your setup) i really like the 9b-13g off the dsm there oem turbos and are very reliable go with a external wastegate for control when you start to turn it up

Im going to up date my thread since the bike it done a running strong

 

Your bike is well built! I am really digging the double exhaust tips running out. Where did you locate the o2 sensor? Is it on the backside of the dump pipe? They look so short for the o2 to work, no? I looked up your turbo, the td04-13g and looks good. I looked on ebay and didn't find much and did't see any configured like yours. I used http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/ to plot my figures. I compared your turbo vs the BG turbos. Is it not optimal to have the turbo spool at lower RPM? The BG spools sooner and stays in the sweet spot at full boost in the 150-175 hp for my bike specs. What are the downsides to this? The bg rep made it sound like the dream turbo, you disagree? It doesn't have the two dump pipe look, which I absolutely love on your bike. Can you steer me in the right direction to research this turbo? I like the exhaust inlet flange size on your turbo. It looks like a T25 flange. The kd03-2072 input is much smaller like farmer's. I know a guy here that can fabricate me a stainless manifold for the turbo and I like the looks of yours way better, but looks are not everything.

Do you have an oil cooler installed? 295 sound really high! I think it's very inaccurate representation of the engine temp reading off the cooling fin. I've stuck an infrared gun there and it's the right temp, but I think it's way higher at the fin than the internals of the engine & oil. The fins are where the heat is transferred to cool the engine. The oil pan seems like the best location or using a sandwich port off the oil supply. At least I know I'm not destroying my engine, but I don't feel easy about it either.

Your Vid on the bike REVVING is sick!!

Here are my plots on the compressor maps. Am I on par or way off?



TD04-13G


BG KD03-2072


BG KD04-2075

 

really depends on how you want the bike to perform if you want something thats going to wheelie and the twist then go with a fast spooling turbo i went with what i did because im more of a drag racer and my 1-2 shift the bike will just hold the tire up then 2-3 will for back down witch is what i want at the track. the 9-13g is a very hard turbo to come by these days i went onto dsmtuners.com and posted in the forums and these were a couple people that had some i would think my old 14b from last year on a 850cc would be like the 13g is now you have a much larger bike pm me if you want to buy my old 14b exhaust housing is already setup for external wastegate.


yes my o2 is about 3'' from the turbo right in that bend on the big one it works fine its off slightly like .5 to .75 so you have to keep that it mind when tuning

Man i wish we where close i would let to ride the bike and you could go off that to make your mind up

 

what makes you think the vane turbo has no top end??

 

It's not that it doesn't have top end it's that peak qt is at like 3k or whenever u have full boost then its falling off you may not feel it when riding but on the Dyno it would show now I'm basing this off of small turbos on small 4 cyl cars I tune. Yes mine is laggy but when it comes on it pulls harder every 1000 rpms it fills as if I could rev this thing forever you get what I trying to say only way to tell is to stick it on the Dyno and see I'm doing this before the end of riding season farmer it would be great if you could do the same so people turboing there bikes can see and pick a good turbo

 

i dont know if i will dyno this year, but i would be down for a set of those billet intake boots. Please keep me in mind.

 

I chatted with Isaacson06. He swapped theoil pan and pump, but had to use the larger sprocket off of the non-turbo pump due to the turbo pump being smaller with slack. I was looking around and found that the chain is attached to the same shaft as the clutch. Can't the chain be swapped from removing the clutch assembly? By swapping the chain, you'll keep the higher pressure the turbo pump was intended to make, correct?

 

i dont see why you couldnt do that i didnt have the chain so i used what i had at the time