Worked on Starter, now get clicking from "relay"?

So, I (for better or worse) opened up my starter & did a cleaning.
When I put it back in the bike, all I get is a clicking from that gizmo behind the battery.

The batteries charge is in question, so the thing COULD be going on me..(battery)
I also tried starting from a small charger & same clicking.

Thanks lads,

Rich

PS. I cannot turn the starter gear by hand at all when it's out.
Should I be able to?

P.P.S. Also, if I remove the starter from the circuit, I STILL get the clicking sound..

 

Maybe if you have ViceGrip Finger's and Incredible Hulk Strength.

Pull the starter.
Bench test it.
Use your charger and put 12V to the Pigtail and "Touch" the case for Ground.

If it all fit back together without a fight. The problem is likely to be the Brushes not in there ... just right.

A problem to overcome is how much of the heavy, braided pigtail to the Hot Side Brush is exposed and able to be shorted if the Power Post isn't installed with the end pulling the slack back out of the way.

Something to try when you inspect the Power end, again ... is to wrap the whole lead with "Cloth-type" electric tape ... not Vinyl.
Insure that the connecting lead is insulated ... but, with tape that can handle getting warmed-up real good.
Don't use the whole width of the tape.
Cut a narrow strip less than a 1/4 inch wide to keep the 'bulk' down.

 

My bike was doing the same thing. I arced across the 2 terminals on the solenoid (under the seat) and no start. That tells me I have a bad starter. If it would have started, that would have meant that the solenoid was bad.

 

Are you getting 12VDC at the starter with the solenoid energized? If not, your solenoid is suspect. If 12V is present, your starter is stuck (check the brushes as Rick suggests) or the engine is in gear (long shot that one but heck, it could be).
Oh yeah, welcome to the gang.

 

Thanks lads, maybe I've jiggered up the hot lead inside the ting.
I should also have mentioned that I had the thing on the bench, with 12VDC right on the sucka, & it just sorta sparked at me: no movement of the ear.

Glad to hear though, that it's not sposed to move under human strength.
I'll open her up again & look into the hot/brush situation.

What did we do before online forums BTW..??

 

On a bike years ago I had a starter that would not work because the arbiture bushings were worn. They were to the point the arbiture would contact the winding case. I changed the bushings and it worked like a new one.

 

With the starter out you should be able to turn it with minimal effort. When I had mine out I could turn it relativley easy but after I cleaned and reassembled it I couldn't and would'nt turn when hooked up to the battery. If you took both ends off, make sure the planet gears are lined up properly and the end caps are indexed on the dimples correctly. I had to play with mine a few times before i got it right. These starters use a simple single stage planetary for speed reduction and tourque multiplication just like an electric drill. If the starter is assembled correctly you should be able to turn it by hand.

 

hmm ok, then I think the earlier fellow misunderstood when he said I shouldn't be able to turn it..
I thought it strange that I should be able to....

I'll get it back on the bench today.
Rich

 

Here's pix from a few minutes ago.

The pieces:



So, I can turn it in this stage.


Putting on..the other thingy..


And here's the scoop: The starter runs freely when I've got the charger on it: notice the top gear portion isn't on yet..
As soon as I put top gear section on(lining up dimply thingies) it's just locked fast.




I honestly cannot figure out why she locks up hard when I put the top piece on.

Should I stick to Programming :?

Well, thanks again lads,

Rich

 

Ok, another update:
Just went down, & reassembled again.
This time, when I put it together, I was able to turn the whole thing
by hand.
So, with the charger on it, it turns, but turns "very slowly".
I honestly do not know at what rate it's supposed to turn, so I'm not sure if it's 100% correct: but how could it not be? I guess...
Wish I had a video camera!

Well, thanks fellas.

Rich

 

Directly applied power should make that sucker spin like a top.
Sounds very much like a through rebuild would be a wise investment.
Could be your bushings/bearings, contaminated or too heavy a grease, bent commutator shaft, or one of your gears could be nicked and have a protrusion that wedges. Oh yes, did the plastic/mica spacers get put back in the correct locations on either end of the commutator shaft?
You might use a magnifying glass to get a very close look at all of your rotating surfaces.

 

hmm, interesting...
starting to sound like I'm gonna need to spend some $$ I don't have..
bummer.

Lesson: if it's not totally broke, and you can live with it: don't mess with it.

Rich

 

You definitely should be able to turn it by hand. Mine spun pretty good when I hooked it up to a surplus computer power supply i keep on hand for messing about with things. I can't remember now, but are there any alignment dots on the two small planetary gears? The motor will also lock up if the end covers are not snugged up. I do remember trying a couple of times to assemble it correctly, so don't give up. The clicking you hear is the starter solenoid closing, which is normal.

 

hm, I'll break it open again(for like the nth time!) & check out those potential align marks..
though, if I'm getting a constant spin(albeit slow), I would want to assume that the gears themselves are ok...?

Thanks for hanging in there with me on this one fellas...
Rich

 

rgouette, do you have any grease on those gears? They look pretty dry in the picture! Do the gears turn freely while apart?

 

**Update**

I believe I have it working now.
I bought some grease, & put in fresh.
It took some fiddling, and one thing that was happening was that I could put power on it without the hold down screws in, and it spun as it should(fast); but as I tightened down those screws, I noticed the main gear became harder to turn & it wouldn't turn at all when fully tightened.
So, busted it apart again & repositioned the armature just for kicks, & started the process again: as I tightened the body down this time, she never bogged down & it's back tight & spinning nicely.

Unfortunately, I cannot really point at one specific thing that was the cause: but I'm ok with that, as I learned some new stuff, and I think I have working starter with fresh grease & smoother armature contacts.

Thanks all,

Rich

 

Since you have the starter pulled and it's on the bench ... so to speak ...

Remove the clip holding the Drive Gear on the Planet Shaft and overhaul the whole Planet End.

There are some washers that are thin enough to be shims ... look for them when you extract the Planet Shaft out of the end housing.

Clean that whole end and lube the bearing bushing. Lube the Planet Gears while rotating the Output shaft. Make sure that the two gears and their bearings are lubed-up good.

I use synthetic waterproof grease rated for rotational speeds far above any rotating shaft on the engine.

 

Also worth bearing in mind is the correct positioning of the brush retaining plate. First time I cleaned out the starter motor and replaced the brushes I had the brush plate slightly out of kilter. The starter motor tested fine, spinning aweay. Only when I got it back in the bike did I realise it was spinning BACKWARDS.

Check the Haynes manual and position it exactly as per the exploded diagram. In your hand the starter motor should turn albeit with the resistance of the magnets against the armature. Should work fine when bolted back in place. And as Rick said, check you have the shims/washer correctly positioned. Check the Haynes diagram(s).

Karl

 

All very excellent advice lads...
but...um...I put i back in the bike & she works fine...
:roll:

However, should I end up pulling it out gaain for any reason, I'll be sure to log back in here & revisit this post.

Thanks all!!
Now, onto those rear brakes!
Rich