Water in Engine

In most cases, the model prefix DOES make a lot of difference.

There are a lot of parts with similar numbers (mufflers, exhaust pipes, tank badges, fenders, etc., etc.,) where the parts are completely different and the only difference in the part numbers are the model codes.

 

I get that, I am not hanging my hopes on them being the same, just pointing out the research I have done. In all honesty I realize it would be easier (assuming my bottom end is solid) to just swap on a replacement top end from another 700 and be done with it. A 750 engine swap is still on the table, but I'd really like to reuse as much of the original engine as possible, and based on my research on cranks and the color coded bearings and shims, swapping the crank doesn't sound like a way to build a reliable engine.

 

I have been on vacation for the past week, and prior to that was yet another cold snap, rendering the garage too cold to work in.
However I am home now and back at it. I went ahead and finished removal of the starter and rotor/stator. I pulled the rotor with the old M16-1.5 bolt, popped right off. Then I spun the bike around to give myself better access to the right side, and pulled the clutch and right crank end cover. One legacy of the PO, he had both crank end covers chromed, and now both are bubbling/flaking. Who plates aluminum? Stupid people, thats who. I then pulled the clutch springs, plates and inner clutch basket. I am at the point where all I have left is to go ahead and pull the engine out and up to the workbench. This weekend, big time.
Not much in the way of pictures, sorry.

 

Nice pic of a clutch with oil/water syrup dripping out of the housing. I always thought oil and water wouldn't mix until my Dad blew a head gasket in his Ferrari. Then I found out that it IS possible.

Just pitch the friction plates and replace them with "aftermarket" plates; and clean up the originals with Scotchbrite.

Pop that brake pedal off so it's not in your way.

 

Isn't that what we call an emulsion? Like vinaigrette or mayonnaise?

 

Motor oil mixes with water - because there's an additive that MAKES them mix, to save an engine with a blown head gasket from destroying the crank. Straight water in crank or rod bearings turns right to steam !

 

My fingers are crossed for a triumph of hope over expectation..

Good luck !

JS

 

Engine out biotches!


I then proceeded to pull the middle gear assembly, oil sensor, ignition pickup, and am ready to pull the oil pan. Guess I should have done the oil pan before pulling the cases, but que sera.

 

put the nuts back on the cylinder studs, don't bugger up the threads.
do those have the hidden bolt under the oil filter?

 

One of the cylinder studs is snapped, and four others have rust so I'll probably pull them out, but thanks.
And yes, there is a bolt inside the filter housing. I assume that that is what you referring to.

 

Shank,

Any up-dates on the build?

Roc

 

Actually yes, I dug up my stud extractor and went to work on removing the broken cylinder stud. Alas, the extractor gripped that stud so tightly. That now it won't let go. So the good news is, the broken stud came out the engine cleanly. The bad news is, now the stud is stuck in the stud extractor.

 

When it rains it pours eh? Pretty much the story of that bike's life!

Love the project Shank!

 

Shank, score the stud with your dremel to relieve tensil strength. The extractor should come out. Sometimes we just need to be reminded of things we already know. Roc

 

Not sure what you mean, where do you score the stud, and how would it help?

 

Score it down the sides along the hole you drilled to put the stud extractor in. It will weaken the stud.

 

Exactly^.

 

I believe that there is some confusion. Ya'll are thinking easy-out, but Bigshank used a stud extractor.



The only way I know of to get a stuck stud out of one is to run the stud back into a threaded hole (one that you don't plan on using again) so the extractor can be turned to loosen it's grab on the stud.

 

This.

My other thought, as the stud is wasted anyway, is to chuck the stud into a bench vice and break the extractor loose. Same basic principle as the throated hole.
I have been out of town since thursday, so I will try and get back into this today, but I've got some pressure washing to do around the house today.

 

Shank, that'll work. Sorry bout that man. I need to slow down and pay attention to what's being said. Roc

 

Work continues.
I did manage to work the stud out of the extractor, but I couldn't get it to grab any of the other studs so I moved on to other things.
I pulled the clutch basket, and began loosening the numbered case bolts per the sequence given in the manual

Then I inverted the engine by skewering the cylinder studs into a milk crate and flipping it over

This revealed the hidden pockets of sludge and goo that remained in the cases

This also, however, gave me access to the case bolts on the underside, as well as the oil pan

 

Forgot to remove the bearing retainers behind the final drive sprocket. Luckily I have a big torx set from working on my Jeep so this was an easy task.

Quick question, for splitting the case is it necessary to remove the final drive sprocket? The manual doesn't indicate that it is.

Also, as I am closing in the final steps of engine disassembly, I have been a little let down by not having had trouble with JIS screws. Seriously, everything I read leading up to this engine tear down was doom and gloom about stripping out the JIS screws, and I didn't lose a single one. Then again, I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

Chugging along now. With all 39 case bolts individually bagged and tagged, splitting the engine was a simple task. Really, there is a ridge on the rear of the case for prying (no mating surface to mar), and it popped right apart. Everything on this engine has been super easy to deal with.



I then made a layout for the crank bearing shells and bagged the lower ones

wiped some of the oil out of the lower case


Then it was on to the transmission in the upper case half


Remember what I said about everything being easy to deal with? And how I haven't had any problems with JIS screws stripping?

Dammit.

 

you have a hand impact driver? i bet you can still get that

 

Yeah, that's my plan, but it'll have to wait until tomorrow. The wife called me in for dinner, so now I am fat and tired.

 

So.... you are going to keep screwing around and turn this thing back into a motorcycle. Not soon of course, but someday...... Still having fun?

 

I am seriously pissed now.

 

Get a good closeup of the fastener please. It might still be DYI salvageable. If not then it's off to the machine shop.

 

Each one snapped below the screw head, so removing the ez-out wasn't an option. I slotted both screws (yup, there's two) with my Dremel, knowing full well it would damage the bearing retainer, the end result being that it twisted the blade of my impact driver's slotted head. So yeah, it looks like I will get to spend my first $$$ on this project at a machine shop.
Funny, you'd think an oil town like Houston would be littered with machine shops, such is not the case...

Edit: thats a joke, you cant swing a dead cat in this town without hitting a dozen machine shops, but they all specialize in oil field work and won't mess with something piddly like an MC engine.

 

In perusing the numerous machine shops in town, and Houston being a oil town there are many, they all pointed me to a specialist who will electrically disintegrate the bolts for about $125/pair. I was worried it would be much more expensive. I wish I could watch the process in action, it sounds fascinating.

 

See..... now you know why I encourage you to not turn it into a boat anchor. These engines are easy to work on. So you have finally found a couple stubborn bolts.........you'll still get it done.....

I've said it many times in the past:

The engineers were genius-----
They were simple people with a simple idea, built with simple tools and a simple plan, but a genius product.

You're gonna have an awesome ride when you get done.

Dave

 

Which is why I have doggedly refused to admit that this engine was a water-logged dead weight and have soldiered on to this point. Once these two bolts are out, out comes the generator and crank (damn this thing is monstrously heavy!) and then it goes into the cleaning and de-gasketing phase. Based on how it has wiped clean so far, I think I can get away with just soda blasting the cases to brighten up the aluminum. I had considered powder coating the engine and leaving the cylinder fins bare ala the Midnight Maxim, but I'm going to save my money for other things. I like clean aluminum, anyway.

 

Bearing retainer is out! Best $120 I've spent so far on this bike.


Now its time to start cleaning.

 

I knew I had a picture of this, you will notice the two bolt holes on the top and lower left of the bearing retainer are filed where I tried to score the bolt heads with a Dremel and impact them out with no success. You can also see on the upper screw where the machine shop had to drill a smooth spot onto the bolt head because I befuckered it so badly. Then the bolts were just disintegrated.

 

did they have thread-lock on them?
$ ?, if you don't mind me asking

 

I kind of think so, the one that came out by natural means had what looked like an adhesive, but only on the countersunk head of the screw, not on the threads.

 

Never tried the acitone method but I have had a couple junk bikes that were sitting outside for many years and were froze up
I sprayed PB BLASTER in the spark plug holes and let them sit in my shop for a week and they always free up, But when you first get um started they would smoke like hell until they burn all the blaster out the cylinders
Robert

 

Oh no, there was so much mung built up on the cylinder walls there was no way this bike was going to run just because I freed it up. Now, I probably could have run it with just a top end rebuild, but that would've involved praying the bottom end was ok as opposed to knowing.

 

I don't care what they at about you........ You're alright!

Lol

 

Ordered a replacement head w/cams in way better condition than my original. Finally finished getting my Jeep up to state inspection level, and now my wife is sick. I will get back to finish cleaning this engine soon!

 

How does one go about removing the bearing for the blind end of the generator shaft? I have been diligently cleaning my cases and started polishing them, but that bearing has remained stuck in place. Given the amount of water that came out of this engine, that bearing has some rough spots in its rotation, and when I wash it out with WD-40 a good bit of brown washes out, so it's got to go. I have a slide hammer, but I cannot catch the lip of the bearing to pop it out.

In other news, I have removed all but one of my cylinder studs. That one decided to fight back, and snapped off down at the base gasket surface. So, it's back to the bolt disintegration shop. Also, despite my best efforts with a copper scraper, I don't think I can salvage the cylinders. Its a shame as the block itself is in good shape, but there was too much detritus built up on the liner walls to remove without machining them, and oversized pistons are NLA. Also, replacement liners are expensive to the point that replacing more than one makes the concept economically infeasible compared to a good condition block (& pistons) on ebay.

 

Progress continues with engine prep work. I have obtained a replacement cylinder block plus pistons, and have gone through and de-gasketed all the engine parts and covers in preparation for final cleaning and powder coating. There is one problem remaining, however; the PO took it upon himself to chrome plate the valve cover and had a crappy job done of it. It is flaking and bubbling, and I fear it woud look like shite to try and powder coat over it.

Anyone know how to remove chrome from aluminum?

 

Get another valve cover

Dave

 

Thats what I am leaning toward, research via Google has come up with a bunch of ways to remove chrome, none of which are economically feasible.
Ebay, on the other hand, has offered a number of reasonably priced options.

 

By the time you pay to ship, strip, refinish, you may as well just buy one on eBay for less.

Dave

 

I'm posting just to make sure get notices of your future posts so I can keep up with your restoration. I have an extra engine for my XJ700 and I've oiled it inside and out, plugged it up, and rotate it occasionally just to avoid the issues you ran into. But, if I had a spare engine in the condition of yours I would have torn into to it also if nothing more than out of curiosity. Good luck.

 

Tabaka.... you can follow without having to reply---look below the reply message box, and immediately below the 'submit' button......now look to the left and click on where it says 'watch this topic'.

 

Would that I had a spare engine, I would try and build a hot-rod motor using a 750 crank and top end, then actually putting in a 805cc big bore kit and FI with a 4-1 Supertrapp. Not that I need ANOTHER engine to work on.

 

Well, I'll be darn, ain't that cool. Thanks.

 

Soak it in ammonia. Likely, there is a copper base plate that the chrome is adhering to.

Ammonia is a natural copper solvent. Trust me, removing copper fouling out of dozens upon dozens of rifles has led me to the conclusion that it works very, very well as a copper solvent.

I also learned the hard way when I was younger that ammonia based cleaners will absolutely destroy a fine nickel or hard chrome finish. :x


On another note, once it starts flaking & peeling, feel free to scrub the everloving schize out of it with a wire brush.