1983 XJ900 Project has begun!

Just so everyone knows, I started this project a little over a week ago, so I started documenting my adventure and now I'm a member so I'll post it here so people can follow along if they so desire!

Hey Guys, Thank you for stopping by! I came across a new toy and so I am starting a new project, an awesome Yamaha XJ900 (Seca 900). She has been sitting in a climate controlled storage building for 11 years, license plate says Oct 2003! and the odometer reads just a little over 5k miles! So of course the "Glass Half Full" side of me wants to remain positive. The petcock valve was turned off but the gas tank was pretty much full. But here is the agenda to get worked out.

1. The throttle is completely stuck, I tried to wiggle (please ignore my lack of mechanical terminology!) the spring thing on the (butterfly?) valves on the carbs that connects to the throttle cable and they won't budge, I'm sure it's all varnished up, but that's to be expected.

2. Appears to have been dropped on the right side, (the right brake handle is broken, and the front brake has no pressure)also the cover plate that says "Yamaha YICS" is broken off slightly, will need to find a replacement. The turn signal light is busted, and there is some scratching on the fairing and side panels. But all repairable/replaceable!

Now for the nasty stuff... electrical!

3. Battery was missing! Now how did this happen? Oh well, $85 later got a new pre charged battery with acid already in and a promise from the parts store saying "drop this battery in and she'll start right up!". Well, you can't trust everything you hear and that brings us to #4.

4. Battery in, keys in ignition, kick stand up, bike in neutral (neutral light is on!) clutch held for good measure, kill switch on, (power is flowing! head light on!), press the ignition button and! ... nothing... No clicks, no pops, no groans, no whines... nothing! And this is where I am now, I believe that the problem may lie in the starter solenoid, and I read on here late last night that a good way to test this is to bridge the connections on the solenoid and see if the starter turns, or to take the hot lead from the battery and connect it straight to the starter and see what it does, this is what I plan on doing tonight.

We tested all of the fuses and they were all within their resistance range. Tested the kickstand sensor and it was within its range so I don't think it's any of that, everything just keeps pointing back to starter solenoid and starter motor...

My co-worker seems to be afraid that maybe the motor is locked up, which may be the case because even when it's in neutral and/or the clutch is held in, the bike will not roll forward or back. The back wheel is completely locked up, possibly brakes? But I feel doubtful.

I will update with my progress tonight!


I've attached some photos of the bike, let me know what you think!

 

So! Good news! A freshly charged battery makes all the difference. Plopped it in there, wired everything back up and she turned over! I did not try to get it to start all the way since I am sure the oil is complete sludge and the carbs are completely stuck. Onward to the next step of the project, time to get those carbs off!

First I had to remove the (1) bolt holding the gas tank on and disconnect the hoses to the petcock valve (this was much more difficult than it needed to be). But I got it all off and "safely" disposed of the 11 year old fuel and cleaned up the tank while it was off. Half way there! Removed the several bolts that held the air box in place and the battery box and scooted them back a few inches to reveal the carburetors. Victory within reach! I was able to disconnect the choke cable easily enough but when I got to the throttle cable... oh boy... that thing would not move. I twisted the throttle and it turned the entire assembly (not good!) After 2 hours on one day and another hour the next I got them off.

Man were these nasty! But over two days I disassembled each carburetor and cleaned them, got the rust and the sludge cleaned off, made sure the jets were clean soaked every piece of metal with carb cleaner and made sure everything that was supposed to move, would do so. I can't stand how the two outer carbs are chromed up and shiny but the inner two are dull and boring. I tried buffing them out with a wire wheel but they just wouldn't shine up... Another project for another day...

Time to reinstall them and replace the spark plugs (though they only have a few thousand miles on them, I'm sure it couldn't hurt to have them replaced. Once I get that completed tonight I plan on doing an oil change and then seeing if I can get it to start. Depending on how that goes will determine what I do next. If she starts up I plan to move to the brakes, because... lets be honest here, though she may be a beautiful machine, i'd rather not spend my last moments hurtling 75mph down I540 with her... But if she doesn't start, then I'll be taking a closer look at the engine and see what's going on there. I can't see why the engine wouldn't run as good as it "supposedly" ran when it was parked 11 years ago. But who knows, something could be fouled up inside.

Also a side note, I was able to get the bike to go in to neutral and now she rolls... kind of, still pretty tough and it takes some muscle to get it to move, but it is progress, we'll see how this improves over time. Maybe the oil in the shaft drive? Not sure, that's all new to me so we'll see.

 

Don't discount the possibility that the brakes are causing the rear wheel to drag or bind, on my 85 XJ700 the rear arm was sticking causing it to be a royal pain to push.

 

First thing you should do is get a can of kroil and hit every damn bolt you can find! I learned the hard way.

Might as well drain the rear diff just to see what the oil looks like. Its easiest on the side stand.

Get the old oil out of the motor, too-It would be good to know if there was water in it. Maybe the clutch pack is all stuck together, too. Does it move more easily when the clutch is held in?

Hank is right, though. Probably brakes or maybe wheel bearings.

Good looking bike, man. I'd be super excited!

 

That is a nice bike, take your time and don't take any shortcuts and you will have a bike that will be as reliable as a new one. I bought anXJ650 with around 5500 miles. It had been stored for years and had the carb issues like yours plus some corrosion. I still have a little engine painting to do but it is like having a new bike.

 

It really is. I've put over 11K on my recommissioned Seca with none other than the factory-recommended scheduled maintenance.

 

Well I'm afraid I didn't get much done last night, too much going on for hobbies these days! I'll just do a quick run through on what I got done and what issues I ran in to.

First off, thank you for the advice! I'll check out the rear brakes and make sure nothing is sticking. I haven't found any rust on the bike other than a smidge on the exhaust pipes; luckily, but that doesn't mean that the caliper pistons could be rusted or stuck. I checked the oil level of the final drive and it's full and definitely had the right color for gear oil (didn't appear to have any discoloration, but not sure if that matters in this situation). But I'll order some in the near future to get that resolved. I have a manual from the Yamaha dealership here in town that covers every bloody thing on this bike, so once I get some of the obvious things out of the way I will work my way through its recommended maintenance program.

What did I actually get done last night? Two things, over several hours... got the petcock valve on the gas tank disassembled and cleaned and put back together. Fuel flows now! No leaks! Yay! ... ehem... simple joys of life I suppose. Now on to the oil change, some PB Blaster got that 31 year old drain plug loose, I'm willing to bet that the drain plug had never been removed, at only 5k miles, and the previous owner (family) confirming that they never changed the oil while they had it, that took some muscle and some cussin to get off. Success at last; however, I was able to get the plug off and get that nasty sludgy gross slop out, how about we change the oil filter now? ... boy Yamaha... thanks for making it so darn easy to get to that oil filter off... Sure, when I read in my manual that to remove the oil filter cap I must remove exhaust pipe #2 I thought to myself... yeah right, I know I can get it out if I just get my hands in there just right and... yeah uh, nope. Off comes exhaust pipe #2. Got the new filter in there the right way (I think... manual doesn't mention anything about which way the filter goes in and of course I didn't see how the old one was because I was too stubborn to take off the exhaust pipe before I tried to remove the filter.) and put it all back together. I put in 20w50 Quicksilver brand oil for now, we're averaging in the 70's so I felt this would be a good weight and it's cheap at Wal-Mart. Once I run it a few hundred miles I plan on putting some higher quality stuff in there, but for now, cheap is where it is.

And that's about it! Had to get cleaned up and grill a couple of steaks before the sun went down, so had to call it an early night. I'll be going on a business trip here in the next few days and I'll be gone for a week so the Seca will be sitting all alone for about 9 days, but I think she'll be alright.
I know this isn't the most interesting build story but I wanted to share my amateur adventure to this restoration project and I most definitely wanted to hear the communities opinion as the project goes on. For now I'm planning on going back to a full stock look. This may change, but I have to say that Yamaha designed a good lookin' bike and I don't want to make her in to something she's not. But that's just me, maybe I'm just lazy!

 

NOw that's weird, I own a '83 Seca900 equipped with a 4-in-1 exhaust system and I didn't have to remove anything to change my oil filter. I was tight, but it came out easily.

Keep sharing, we are a few Seca 900 owners here! I hope to get mine definitely road-worthy this year.

 

There you have made the first mistake. Such assumptions is not acceptable.We all start somewhere and we all have a different story to tell. We all share the love for the same bike and no matter how little our knowledge or how little we do.......it is always interesting to see what others are doing. In that way we all get to learn from each other.....and it costs absolutely nothing.
Don't underestimate yourself. keep at it and don't forget lots of pics are always good. Takewhatever advice you get fromhere and move ahead. You will surprise yourself ...and be much better for the experience.

 

McCluney....Please PM me----- I run the xj900rk Seca Database for USA-Delivered 900rk's.

I'd like to get your bike registered on it, and there is absolutely no cost to you.

Thanks,

Dave Fox

 

My bike has a 4 to 2 exhaust and the oil filter cap is right smack dab between exhaust pipes #2 and #3 and there just isn't quite enough room to get it out without removing one of the pipes. When I'm over at the shop next I'll get some pictures.
I will be back with more updates and photos as the project continues but for the next several days I'll be in Texas for business.

In response to quebecois59, you're right I shouldn't have said that. Just since this is a resto-stock build I'm going for, I wasn't sure if it was going to appeal to the modders and the choppers! But if not for anything else, at least I'll have my journey documented for my personal enjoyment!
Thanks guys! So far a very supportive environment to be a part of!

 

I've go 2, 4 into 2 and a 4 into 1 and can change the filter on one of the 4 into 2's without issue.The other 2 I loosen the all the pipes at the head just so I can get a little movement,just enough to wriggle the housing out.
Irritates the hell out of me,some brands were well designed some not.

 

Exactly, well said that man! I always enjoy reading about the 900's especially, they're my bike's American market Cousin after all :lol:

On the oil filter, I'm sure one end has an "indentation" for the spring & washer to sit in? Worth double checking before start-up anyway, I don't have my Haynes 900 manual to hand right now but I'll have a look for it shortly & see if it has a picture. (or Dave, Quebecois or one of the Aussie boys will know how it fits off the top of their head lol)

 

Fantastic detailed blog. Thanks for sharing. I have an XJ900f 58L with absolutely no brakes whatsoever..... no pressure fron tor back. Bleed them or replace piston seals etc with overhaul...? what do you reckon? Also, I am having trouble finding a collector box to reinstate the 4 into 2 system, as silencers and downpipes are good.... well... pipes are new ones from breakers, as oem ones were scrap only as was collector box. I have seen Wemoto do a Marving box for £107. What do you reckon.... My left had carb bowl is dripping too.... When will it ever cease? That aside.... your lokks great. Mine will get there EVENTUALLY.

 

Holy post revival batman!

So the bike ran great all last season, finally have some 60 degree weather so It's time to start all over again. Got her started, ran to the gas station filled her up, came back took a picture and now she wont start?
I press the starter button and she attempts to turn over, maybe 1 - 1 1/2 turns and stops. After a few attempts smoke begins to billow out of the red terminal wire on the battery. Once they cooled, I disconnected the wires and checked for loose connections. Tightened a few and put it all back together and tried again. Same thing, 1 - 2 turns and silence with each push of the button. I do hear a squeak coming from the starter area? In time with the turns of the engine, she has fresh oil and I checked the plugs and they're not fouled... so it should be getting fully lubricated? Eventually smoke comes out of the battery terminal area. I can see the insulation around the wire is turning black on the positive wire so there is definitely some arcing or resistance causing heat... but what could be causing that?

I also noticed that the clock no longer works? Now it just shows gibberish, not the actual time? Related? Not related? Not sure...
Any advice would be awesome!

Btw, here's a pic, that glorious beast.

 

Flat battery. Not enough juice to turn it, so the electric sits there and cooks. If you test your battery and it IS good, then if check the starter, the lead to to the starter, the solenoid, the lead to the solenoid..... And check your ground lead and ground strap. It is possible for a wire to go green inside where you can't see it. Look and feel for a bulge---- that would increase resistance a lot and cook a wire.

Your bike is looking good! Now you need to find the silver and black C stripes for the tank, and the silver and black strips for the cowl!


Like this

Dave Fox

 

Awesome advice, I'll go through those wires and check for resistance.

 

Lucas Electric theory --- the smoke is what makes things work. If the smoke gets out, things stop working. Case in point, the smoke is leaking out of your battery terminal areas and some of your wires.

 

And there it is, a Lucas electrics joke on a Japanese UJM forum. The internet never fails to deliver. Now someone find the post about the dwarves that live inside your carbs.

 

I know a little about a lot of things....

 

The term is "Ombudsman".

 

Ombudsman -
1. a gov't official (as in Sweden or NZ) appointed to receive and investigate complaints made by individuals against abuses or capricious acts of public officials

2. one that investigates, reports on, and helps settle complaints.

according to Merriam-Webster.

Not sure that I fit into that definition-----

Dave Fox

 

Hmmm, well just goes to show what a Kentucky public school education is good for. I was always taught the term refers to someone who's passably good at a lot of different disciplines, although not an expert at any one of them.

 

that would be a "jack of all trades, but master of none"

FU

 

Well yeah, that was what I was taught to be the definition of Ombudsman. Which I have learned is completely inaccurate.

 

So here's the news. It has taken time to do all this (I commute over an hour to work each day so by the time I get home it's dinner+bed time haha).
I took the battery to AutoZone and they stated that the battery was as healthy as can be (It's only a year old and has been on the battery tenderer all winter... mind you it's an HD battery tenderer, so maybe it sabotaged the bike, not sure!) So the next step was to replace the positive lead. I bought a higher gauge wire (4 gauge) and replaced the existing burnt and melted lead with new wire. Scoured all other connections, the only other wire that showed any damage was the wire that went from the solenoid to the starter (I think... tracing it seemed that way) and it didn't look particularly damage but it had a little blackening on the wiring sheath so I replaced that as well.

The only greening I saw was on the main lead to the solenoid. So I assume all is well.

Press the starter button? Nothing... I hear the click, but nothing.
Could the starter be bound? I'm not sure... I did put the bike in gear and made sure I could roll it around (to make sure the engine is turning) and that's no problem.

Hmmmmmm....

 

I would like to make her pretty some day, hogfiddles, maybe someday....
Your's looks fantastic!

 

Pull the starter. Remove the positive lead from teh side of the starter body, then the two bolts that seure it to the engine cases. Pull the starter toward you (working from the left side of the bike). Remove the two long screws along each side (a hand impact driver is needed here), and remove the end cap. I think you'll find that the brushes are worn beyond their service limit. You should also inspect the positive terminal insulating ring; if it fails the positive lead will short directly to ground. Since the starter is apart it is good practice to tear it down, clean it, regrease the planatary gearbox, inspect the bearings (replace as needed) and reassemble. An electrical motor shop can do the work for a reasonable cost if you rather not do the work yourself.

 

I removed the starter (Than you so much k-moe for your walk through!) and found it full of some kind of black powder? It smelled like burnt electronics and what not; however, everything did spin. Couple of questions!
First off, I am not opposed to doing the work myself, only one way to learn!
1. What kind of grease is around the planetary gearbox? I'm going to clean it all out but I want to make sure I (if it matters) use the right grease.
2. What is all this black powder?
3. I found a starter rebuild kit on Ebay for $30 (http://r.ebay.com/Fxa73g) would that have everything I need?

Thanks!

 

The black powder is carbon dust from the brushes. Clean the motor thoroughly with electric motor cleaner to get it all out of there. I use the same molybdenum grease in the starter gearbox that I do on the driveshaft splines. You only need about one good squirt from a grease gun to have enough in the gearbox. Do not fill it; there has to be room for the grease to move around. Too much will cause the starter to spin slow. That kit looks to have all that you need to get that starter working again. You probably won't need to replace he bearings, but if you have pressed out bearings before you may as well do the job preventatively. You will need a blind bearing puller to remove the bronze bearing.

If it were mine, and the starter spun smoothly by hand, I'd just celan it up, grease the gearbox, put in the new brushes and positive post, and reassemble. Bench test it before putting it back on the bike. It's really easy to not get the locator ears in their notches, which will bind the starter up.

 

years ago, when I was working in auto repair, we would use a thread tap to remove the starter bushing on Volkswagen beatles. not sure what size tap to use on your starter, but it is an idea.

FU

 

I've been around machine repair for going on 40 years now, and have never thought about using a tap to pull a bearing. That is a fantastic idea! I'd be hesitant to use the tap to pull with though. Tap the bearing for a fine thread and put in a bolt to yank on. You could even use a slide hammer on the bolt if needed.

 

the sintered bronze bearing doesn't have that much of a grip on the bore it's in. I have a thread tap handle that has a 3/8 inch ratchet recess. makes short work of it.

FU

 

if I remember right, we used an end tap which has a larger end than a regular tap. thus a lower surface area pressure.

FU

 

Bah! you guys and your mechanical posts! Can we please get back to the "ombudsman" discussion? Mmmm... obscure political definitions! lol

 

The secret life of starter motors is revealed here, which may assist you in visualizing what the rebuild process will involve:



and

http://xjbikes.com/forums/index.php?threads/45727



Checking Starter Motors:

As far as checking your starter motor, the only tests that you can do are on the commutator (the segmented "snout" of the entire armature) and the brushes, and are as follows:

a) if the surface is commutator is dirty, clean it with 800-grit or finer sandpaper or crocus cloth. Make sure that any dust generated by this process is completely removed.

b) the mica insulation on the armature.....in between each of the raised "segments"......should be:

* 0.8mm (.03") below the level of adjoining segments on XJ550 starter motors.

* 0.6mm (.025") below the level of adjoining segments on all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and XJ900 starter motors.


If the depth of this mica insulation below the level of the segments is less than the specifications given above, you should scrape away the insulation until that depth is reached (a hacksaw blade or similar tool can be shaped to fit), or take the armature to an electrical service shop to have them undercut the mica to the appropriate depth.

c) check the raised segments for continuity between each individual segment and each and every other segments. There should be continuity.

d) check for continuity between every segment (assuming the test in "c" above has already been performed) and the shaft of the armature. There should not be any continuity.

e) check the resistance of the internal coil windings of the armature. You do this via measuring the resistance across every two adjoining segments. It should be:

* 0.012 ohms +/- 6% at 70-degrees F. for all XJ550 starter motors.

* 0.014 ohms +/- 6% at 70-degrees F. for all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and XJ900 starter motors.


f) measure the outside diameter of the segments. The minimum acceptable diameter is 27.00mm.


If any of the above tests (c-f) fails, then the armature is bad and needs to be replaced.


g) measure the length of the brushes. The minimum acceptable length is:

* 5.00mm for all XJ550 starter motors.

* 8.50mm for all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and XJ900 starter motors.


h) check for continuity between each brush and the brush plate. There should be continuity.

i) check for continuity between each brush and its terminal bolt. There should be continuity.

j) check the condition of the shaft end bushings or bearings in the case. If they are worn, then they needs to be replaced.

k) check the condition of the ring and planetary gears. If they are worn or chipped, then they need to be replaced.

l) the only other procedure that is mentioned in the factory manual is to check the condition of the brush springs, and you are supposed to do that by comparing them to new ones.....which is kind of hard to do! The springs should be considered serviceable if they snap the brushes firmly back into position when released from tension. The exact specification is:

* 550 +/- 50 grams (18.5 +/- 1.5 ounces) of pressure, measured via the use of a spring gauge, for all XJ550 starter motors.

* 800 +/- 150 grams (28.22 +/- 5.29 ounces) of pressure, measured via the use of a spring gauge, for all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and XJ900 starter motors.


Also, be very careful when re-assembling a starter motor. There is an alignment notch in the brush plate that must be aligned with the case properly, as well as alignment notches on the outside of the main case to the end caps. Failure to install the brushes and brush plate in their proper orientation can cause the starter motor to not work at all, or to even spin backwards! The correct rotation of the starter motor is counter-clockwise, looking at the butt-end of the motor (as it is installed on the engine); or, clockwise if you're looking the starter drive gear dead in its eye........


Finally, always be sure to use a premium, high-temperature grease to lubricate the internal gears and bearings, and do not attempt to clean the armature via the use of strong solvent sprays (brake cleaner, carb cleaner, etc.) as the solvents may break down the insulation on the coil windings, causing an internal short.