'82 SECA won't start, dies with choke or throttle

Hi, I'm an idiot. Let's just get that right out of the way. I have no idea what I'm doing, but that's...sort of why I bought the bike. I'd like to figure it out. This looks like an amazing resource, so I did a search and didn't find my exact issue. Apologies if it's been posted before.

With that in mind: My '82 SECA won't really start without choke. Understandable. Yet it won't start at all without choke, nor will it start if I open the throttle even a bit. If I keep at it, eventually I can get it warm from enough attempted starts to fire up. Then it will idle roughly for a few minutes, and run like a top once it's all warmed up. Seriously, it runs amazing. Throttle blips spike it just enough and return right to idle, no stumbling, no stalling at lights. Really strong. But touch that choke or throttle before it's warmed up, and instant death.

The guy I got it from seemed very knowledgeable and right on the level. He told me he'd just cleaned and synced the carbs. Even gave me the little tool he used to do it, some sort of pipe with rubber stoppers. Thought it might be the battery, and it tested a little low. Figured it was probably sitting a while, and the levels were low, so I replaced it. No luck.

No idea if this is related, but the only other issue I have that has also not been posted on here (well, as far as I could tell): The signals come on, but they stay solid. They don't flash at all, unless you're moving. The faster you go, the faster they flash, and the slower you go, the slower they flash, until they cease flashing entirely when you come to a stop.

Appreciate any help, but remember: I am an idiot. A well-meaning one, but an idiot nonetheless.

 

I've seen it before where a near dead battery caused solid lights. Threw in a fresh battery, problem solved. Once the bike starts revving, the alternator takes over and provides enough charge to run the, lights properly.

Battery is properly charged? Have you tested the alternator voltages?

If you constantly need to blip the throttle even when the bike is fully warmed up (+10min ride), you probably need to increase your idle speed.

Of course, there is a chain of events that are required here. Lotsa folks are gunna tell you to get a manual (Clymer and/or Yamaha service manual, as they both have their strengths and weaknesses). So it's my turn: get a manual. Read the how to's on here. There is very little that isn't covered on this forum.

- Valves, check and adjust as necessary
- Carbs, take em off, and make em cleaner than the day they left the factory
- Bench sync carbs
- Running vacuum sync
- Colortune
- inspect brakes, new lines on the front
- check the wheel bearings
- check thr suspension, front and back
- if it's a 550, possibly s new chain. Inspect it.
- electrical, check all grounds, upgrade to new fusebox if you have to.

The list goes on and on, those are starting points. What size is your bike? Put that in your sig.

You will hear people telling you not to trust the previous owner, even if he seems knowledgeable. This makes sense.... it's your life on the bike, treat it like every bolt matters and it will be much safer than assuming everything is okay. Potential lifesaver.

 

Float height is not correct and the carbs need to be synched correctly

 

After the valves are adjusted.

 

I had similar starting problems on my 82 650 Seca even after cleaning the carbs, and it was because I did not get the enrichment circuit completely cleaned. Went out and bought a carb dip kit and then it was fine.

here is a thread with photos
http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=160246.html

 

I'd have to agree.... carbs aren't totally cleaned and/or not synced right.

You're NOT an idiot----- you got an XJ , you came here....... that means you're pretty smart. Your just totally unedumacated on the things of the xj- world. You're at the right place. Read, ASK, listen, learn. That's how WE got to where we are.

You'll be fine.

 

Yep, the battery is new and properly filled/charged. Have not tested at alternator yet though. I'll get on that.

Nope, runs like a champ. I just specified that because, in the past, with carbed bikes that had problems, something was always up when you blipped the throttle. It either stayed high for a second after you let off, or bogged down. This one does neither. Responds just right.

Got one! Came with the bike, as well as a box of parts, fluids, and an entire other, spare parts bike. The guy said it was complete and running (roughly) before he took it apart. Who knows if that's true, but it made for a hell of a deal.

Dang! That is an exhaustive list, and most of it is above my paygrade for now. But that's why I bought the bike, so I suppose now is as good a time as any to start. Thanks for the breakdown.

Sorry, I thought there was only one SECA. A quick google proves that assumption wrong, though. It's a 1982 XJ750R SECA.

 

Thanks! I had a similar thought, though I know so little I wasn't sure to call it 'an enrichment circuit.' Regardless, it sounds like everybody agrees the carbs still aren't fully clean and/or set up correctly. I imagine to get to this enrichment circuit, I'm going to have to crack those suckers open anyway. Might as well go whole hog. But what was that about doing valve adjustments first?

 

Haha, thanks for the vote of confidence. I just wanted to make sure people knew to keep the talk simple at first. You know, two syllable words at most. Also holy crap, is that your list of bikes in your sig? That's awesome. Do you just sleep on a big pile of motorcycles at night?

 

Technically, you MIGHT be able to take the float bowls off without removing the carbs, but I think all the wizards on this site will give you $hit if you don't take the carbs off and clean completely.

Just be careful, as there are a few rubber parts on the carbs that are very expensive if you rip/destroy them.

 

Just that. Valve clearances need to be in spec before you can hope to sync/adjust the freshly-serviced carbs.

 

Makes sense to me. That's one of the things I wanted to learn anyway. I just figured the last guy seemed like he knew his shit, and I know no shit at all, so I'd be doing more harm than good.

Oh uh...what are these parts? How expensive are we talking?

 

Intake boots are real spendy; they connect the carburetors to the head.
But have no fear because THIS really works!

 

Brock.... DON'T worry about things. Ask at each step of the way. We WILL TELL YOU WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO DO IT. We do not hold secrets here. HERE is where we all help each other become an expert.

Dive in, don't just stand there..... The water is great!!!

Another thing to do would be to find a local Xj carb clinic and just drive to it , be fly on the wall.... Watch for a bit, then make yourself get your hands dirty.

If you wish, pm me ( click on the PM button) and ill give you my cell number. I'll talk right with you.......

Dave

 

Thanks for the offer! I might take you up on it, depending on how things go. I'm actually not overly worried about anything. Having the parts bike to practice on first with fewer consequences helps a lot with peace of mind. Think I'll pull its carbs out this weekend and poke around in there. Thanks again for the help everybody.

 

I haven't delved into the carbs on the running bike yet to address the problem, but I took a practice run at the carbs on the parts bike. It is amazing how much less complicated they are than I've always thought. Just reading about carb cleaning, I assumed springs and needles would come flying out of the bastards like a shrapnel grenade as soon as I opened them, killing me, destroying my garage and exploding my bike. It is a much simpler thing than I've always assumed, and I even got an intuitive sense of how they work. Pretty cool.

 

The reason to take it step by step is to avoid frustration. All it takes is one item from the list to be wrong on one carb and it will never run right.

+1 on checking the brakes, tires and front suspension thoroughly, they are the three things your life depends on when riding a 30+ year old motorcycle.

My xj wont start without a FULLY charged battery. You can be easily fooled by bright lights and the engine rotating at normal starting speed, but either the coils or the TCI(ignitor) are very sensative to voltage and wont function correctly even though the engine appears to be spinning fast. Try starting the bike with jumper cables clipped to the battery of a car which is not running. If it suddenly springs to life you may have found your issue. You can pull the battery and top it off with distilled water(couple $'s a gallon, a little bit of tap water wont hurt but it isnt preferable). You will need to slowly bring the battery back to charge, if you dont have a trickle/float charger you can take it to Autozone or OReilly and they can slow charge it for free, just make sure to ask for the slowest charger they have.

Sounds like its either rich or lean. Mine will start on either the choke(too lazy to type F-E-C) or without, and after a few minutes of riding it putters away without any throttle or choke.

Might I suggest getting it into a sustainable, rough idle and then pulling one spark plug wire at a time. Each wire should cause the idle to drop the same amount of rpms or kill the bike. If there are one or two wires you can pull that do not make a noticible difference in idle, these are your weak or dead cylinders. You will know to pay extra attention to these cylinders when you start tuning the bike. Its called a cylinder balance test.