ELECTRICAL SYSTEM INTERMITANCE XJ650J

Hello I am rather new here but been lurking for a while, Maybe some one can help me out ,I have a 82 xj650 and once in a while my electronics work. Yes work. When this happens I have not found the cause, But sometimes my Tach works and with that my turn signals will also work, And also the safety idiot lights in the dash start working, Then the Demon arrives and when they quit working it is always these same 3 things that go out. All at the same time. Never involves the head light though. Does anyone know of some connection common to these three things I could Check. Thanks

 

Check the instrument cluster for a bad ground.

 

Tach, Turn Signals, and Instrument lighting are related to the signal circuit, which has a specific fuse for that. The odds are good if the fuse box has not been replaced that you have an intermittent connection there. The terminals on the original fuse box corrode and break over time. Many of the member here have replaced the fuse box with a blade style box, which is available through Chacal at XJ4ever. You can use the search feature here (query "replacing fuse box" - titles only) and find some good examples and write-ups on the replacement of the fuse box.

 

Thanks for the answers I removed my stock fuse box and replaced it with inline blade type fuses. But I am going to check inside the headlight bucket, Something I have been ignoring but looks like I must face it now. It makes since it could be a ground because it goes out then comes back on goes out again that rules out any fuses . thanks

 

WIRE TRAINING. Cable management.

Fear not your headlight shell; therein lies the key to many electrical woes. Clean it up, and rearrange the wiring. Make sure all bullet connectors are tight in their sockets.



(Ignore the red circles, those are the connectors you unplug to remove the instrument cluster on a 550 Seca.)

 

Well I got mine working again, But the problem still exists I did not fix anything but all is working. I did take apart all the connections check them out and put them back nice and tight, Maybe that`s all it needed. Was I dreaming or did I read somewhere where someone had posted about a 5th fuse on these bikes? I looked for another fuse around the head light bucket area but could not find one. If so I want to change it out to blade type like I did to my other 4.

 

The 750 Seca has a fifth fuse in the headlight bucket that powers the backlighting. The wiring diagram I have for the 650 notates an inline fuse (11) in the component key, but does not show the inline fuse on the diagram.

So, the other question might be is during the failure mode, does the horn and stop lamp also fail?

With one wire out of the fuse box, there has to be splices in the main harness as the signal circuit splits to the various locations. Splices can often be a likely point of failure, and my experience level of not having dissected a harness I am not sure if Yamaha used actual soldered splices or solder sleeve to make the connections. Either way, both are subject to fail. This would be true on both the high and low side of the circuit. Maybe some more experience members can comment if these splices are a source of failure.

Hopefully you solved your problem with re-seating the connectors, however, it would have had to been multiple poor connections as there are different connectors involved for the failures that you had, so no common point to say it could have fixed it.

If all the Signal Circuits are failing together - Tach, Stop Lamp front and rear, Flasher, Neutral Lamp, and Horn, then the failure would likely be closer to the fuse box. If you used crimp connectors on the fuse box then that is also a possibility as they can sometimes become intermittent.

If it is working now, one suggestion would be to gently wiggle and massage the main harness as it heads from the fuse box to the headlight bucket. If you can get it back to a failed condition then pick one of the circuits and check for loss of power to that connector, that way you can isolate the failure between the high and low side of the connection.

 

Imo multimeter, electrical contact cleaner and dielectric grease. Atmospheric moisture is like dust. Can't see it but it settles quickly. It's a electronics killer. FWIW there is no 5 amp in-line fuse on the U.S. models.

Gary H.

 

At the time I first posted this bit I was unaware that the horn and brake light(s) were also inoperable but After checking and before digging into the head lamp bucket, I became aware that yes the horn and brake lights were also out, Along with the tach, the sensor warning lights , the turn signals, everything basically, except the head and tail lights. All are working now but I agree with Rooster 53, it needs further inspection before it can be considered fixed . That's Todays job.

 

Well after further inspection I was unable to cause another episode of failure to my signal circuit so I put the head lamp bucket back together. Then decided to retest everything for proper function. Everything worked again as it should , EXCEPT now the bike will not start. Everything is normal until you push the starter button then there is simply dead silence. The lights do not briefly go dim as in most shorts, Just no start , No engine turning over just silence . So now maybe one of the safety lockouts is not activating the start button. At least before it started and ran. So I`m not sure if I`m actually getting closer at this point or worse off. But still have a big problem . Not sure of my next move other that taking the safety circuits that disable the starter button apart one by one until I find the one that is not playing along with the system.

 

I feel your pain, I just got through diagnosing a fuel leak on my 29 year old truck, got that fixed, and now it won't start. The basics are there, has spark, has fuel pressure, cranks fine, but will not fire.
So, is the neutral light illuminated? Does the oil light illuminate when you press the start button?
Starter circuit is part of the ignition circuit, power through the main switch, kill switch, starter cutoff relay, solenoid, and then to ground through the starter switch. You only need a working neutral switch and 12 v ignition to close the starter cutoff relay, which enables the starter circuit.

 

I Messed with it a few hours again today still no start ,I took the kill switch apart cleaned all the wires and terminals , Got back inside the head light bucket rechecked everything I could, I have 3 wires not in use but those were already there when I first got inside the bucket, A move I am now questioning as to why I even opened that thing up (lol) But I am now stranded And it feels bad. I remember somewhere reading about shorting the solenoid to check its condition because I get not even a click when I hit the button, I cleaned up the connections for the start button while I was at the kill switch So yes I have a green neutral light when I turn the key on. Its up with the side stand, Pull in clutch check kill switch push start nothing ,Not even a click. The oil light does not come on when I press start button. Dumbfounded

 

I forgot to add about rooster`s truck I too have a old truck 73 F250 hi boy and I can recall having the same problem spark, gas, air, no start
I was unable to fix it until I shelled out the bucks (ouch) for the electronic points system under my cap, never had a problem since.

 

Since the bike was working until going into the headlight bucket, seems there would have to be a disconnect there, but you never know until you do the test.

Here is a good link to checking out the starter circuit found in the FAQ section. It shows you how to short the solenoid that you referred to. Caution – bike in neutral before doing this and expect a shower of sparks.

http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/index.php?threads/how-to-test-your-starter-circuit.7828/

It is a nice write-up with some good pictures so hopefully it will help you solve your problem. The only issue I see with it:

Step 6 – absence of 12V should include the ignition fuse.

Also, it does not include the diode pack that is located in the headlight bucket. Per the prints I have, this could be an issue on some XJ’s as the starter circuit cutoff relay has the diode pack in the current path for the relay coil. However, for those models, if the clutch is pulled in and the sidestand is up and the switches are working, then an alternate current path is provided for the starter circuit relay coil.

Page 2 of the post Chacal with his infinite knowledge tells you how to identify the relays.

And yes, the truck is up and going. It was simply flooded but I didn't notice as I was already in a gas filled garage working on a fuel issue.

 

For one thing I want to thank you for your help you really showed a lot of helpful kindness going out of your way to help me chase this down , It looks to be a good source for my condition should be very useful. And I`m going to get started on the process right now, I still have about 3 hours of daylight where I live I might even get in a short ride, (Hopeful thinking)

 

Well its day five of a non running bike I have checked just about everything multi times, the condition of the system is now all lights are working, the solenoid activates the starter thru the start button. but motor will not start, I pulled a couple plugs to check for spark and I have no spark. So my question is it possible to have power to the solenoid/starter ,headlight, tail light, but still have no spark? where does the coils get their power from when cranking but non running or pre start situation? if the kill switch was bad would the symptoms I explained occur ? that's my next check ,Because I checked voltage coming into the starter safety cutoff relay and there is no volts coming in or out the way I got the motor to crank was to jump the red/white wire of solenoid to hot side of battery, but still had no spark at plugs. just think 5 days ago I had a great running bike.

 

Yeah Problem solved and back in the wind

 

Glad you got it sorted. What was the problem?

Gary H.

 

Well its kinda of embarrassing (o-well) When I took apart the kill switch one of the first things I cleaned up, Thinking it could be a easy fix by just cleaning connections, And it would have been, I took apart the kill switch and when I put it back together that little B B or ball barring fell out and I did not notice, Then after messing with everything for 4 - 5 days I decided to have another look at that switch as I had gone through every thing else a number of times, Was not much else I could do. Took it back apart and noticed that little B B was missing, I put a b b gun one in there (little too big) but it works great and the bike started first tap on the button.

 

if you wrap a magnet with a rag and tape it to a stick, poke it around under things and places you cant go, you'd be surprised the things you find. the bigger magnet the better, think speaker magnet.
pull the rag off and your magnet is still clean