I just bought my first bike. It's a mess, and I have questions! XJ550 Seca

Okay, first off... it's an 81 XJ500 Seca. It's mostly complete, and it's mostly nice, but boy has it been sitting. It hasn't been on the road since the 80's (13k miles!), and the previous owner said he had it running 2 years ago, but I had it running 2 days ago on four completely seized carburetors and a can of starting fluid so that doesn't mean much.

Anyways, to the important bits...

1. The gas tank cap is also seized. It did not have a key, but I pulled the ignition and got the code, and now have a key which turns (it doesn't feel like it turns completely, but it turns a lot so I might just be paranoid) but no manner of pressing, prying, wiggling, jiggling, fiddling, hammering, cursing finagling nor cajiggering can get that sucker loose. It's been sitting upside down in a bag soaking in PB Blaster for about 3 days now, and the cap does move when I press on it, but nothings doing here and I'm losing patience. Are there any other tricks to this? I read Kroil, but is it really that much better than PB in this situation?

2. The master cylinder might need rebuilt? But I'm not sure and this is a budget build for now until I get it at least running and know it's worth spending money on, so I'm not going to throw money at it just yet. It was gunked up, I've got it off the bike (after breaking both screws off in it. Really. Sitting since the 80's.) and it's been cleaned without disassembling/breaking anything further and also filled with brake fluid but if I squeeze the brake lever, one would assume it should be squirting fluid out the hole where the brake line used to be, yes? Or is that not how this works? Any way to verify it very much needs rebuilt and can't be salvaged with some PB Blaster and a wire brush would be appreciated.

3. Oh god, those poor carbs. They were literally to every extent of the definition the definition of being seized. The float pins had to be hammered out, the needles had to be soaked overnight, it was a solid glob of goo. But with some finagling and oiling and two cans of gumout later, it actually looks like the previous owner rebuilt them (the bowls were marked 1,2,3,4 so he might have known what he was doing,too) and now everything seemingly works perfectly with one small exception. After filling them all with fuel on the table, once the bowls are full (mostly the inner) carbs leak out of this small hole here (stock image from google).



Pretty sure that's not supposed to be a thing. I've never even sat on a bike before purchasing this one though, so I may be in the wrong here. Mostly positive that's what is known as a bad deal though. The floats close fine, open fine, seemingly are set properly, everything was cleaned well enough to eat off of, but still it's determined to be a pain.

5. What oil should i put in this? I'm in Indiana and it does get cold at night, but I'll never be running it unless it was a warm and sunny day. 10w40? 20w50? Strictly motorcycle oil, or engine/motor oil is fine? Synthetic? I'm pretty much clueless here. I've been reading up on everything about motorcycles for about a week now. Or however long ago I woke up and decided I would buy a motorcycle, and it's kind of overwhelming and I'm pretty clueless about a lot of it.

Any and all help here is very much appreciated.

EDIT: Is there a forum/section where I may show it off? Usually there's a "readers rides" or "post your projects here" section but I really don't see one unless I'm blind.

 

Post pics of your bike right here in this thread. Use only oil rated for motorcycles. Oil for cars has additives that mess up the clutch. Do a search for a write up on here called The Church Of Clean. That will help you with the carbs. Rebuild the master cylinder and replace the brake hoses, front pads and rear brake shoes. Do this no matter how good they look. You will also need to replace both tires. Old tires are not safe no matter how much tread is on them. You will need to figure on spending at least $600 to $800 to get the bike safe to ride. If you can't get the gas cap to open, you may need to break it to get it open and replace it. They jamb up pretty good when they are left to sit. Get a service manual and don't be afraid to ask lots of questions. Just keep adding onto this thread so we can keep track of what you have done.

 

Hey Fitz, when did you chnge your name and move to Cali? Witness relocation?

 

some reading for you
here is a link for you
http://www.mtsac.edu/~cliff/storage/gs/Mikuni_BS-CV_Carburetor_Rebuild_Tutorial.pdf

another cool link
http://www.xj4ever.com/inside your carbs.pdf

and one to put the fear of god into you
http://xj4ever.com/catalog/church-of-clean.html
more info
http://xj4ever.com

parts
http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/index.php?forums/xj4ever-supporting-vendor.23/

sounds like your float level is off or float needle is not closing fully make sure the little rubber tips are still on the float needle

 

All of the floats move freely and seal completely, and I might be mistaken but the float level appeared to be within range. I'll go through them again when I get more time and see if I can figure out the culprit if it isn't just something obvious I was missing.

Here's some pics of what it was when I got it, and I'll get some of what it looks like now once there's some actual progress.







I'll tear the master cylinder apart tonight when I get some time. Also, I was afraid of that answer on the gas cap. I suppose I can always re-key a new one if the PB doesn't seep through and fix it. And I do have a service manual already. It likes to assume I know what I'm doing though, which often isn't so helpful.

Thanks for the replies guys.

EDIT: Forgot to say. It does have new spark plugs and it seems to have a new brake line and a few other recently replaced parts, so it does seem the previous owner did go through it a bit when trying to get it back on the road.

 

Does the ignition key work for the seat/helmet locks....if not, you may not have the original key to begin with. Besides, it's totally possible that the tank cap has been replaced at some time. So, you may not have the correct key anyway........

That all said, try turning the key WHILE depressing the cap with the heel of your other hand. Sometimes the dogs just won't move with the spring pressure on. If nothing else, you drill the core out,turn the dogs in with a screwdrive. Open the cap, pull the mounting screw, then get a new core for the cap.

You got your work cut out for you, there, but you'll end up with a nice reliable ride if you take your time to ask, learn, and do.

If you need carb assistance, feel free to send a private conversation and we can talk. I"ll send a 'conversation' to your inbox, too..... feel free to give me a call.

Dave F

 

You are way ahead of the restoration game. You have the very rare and hard to find right side battery cover. Keep up the work. This bike is a blast to ride.

 

I had the same problem with the gas cap. filled the key hole every day with fluid film its like pb blaster but better. turned the key daily as far as it would go each direction.
my last effort was to use pliers on the key for more torque but gently i did com free just be slow about it.
you could pull the petcock an pour pb blaster into the tank and get at the dogs that way to free them up

did you actuly check the fuel hight with a clear tubeagainst the side of carbs?
could be your floats are not actualy floating.
if you have an aftermerket float needle I am told they are longer than oem needle. so that would mean that float hights would not all be the same when fuel level is properly set.
this link showes the curcuits of the carb cut away
http://www.xj4ever.com/inside your carbs.pdf

if you have fuel coming out of your airjet it is flooding up from the main jet because fuel levels are to high.
could be the little rubber seal on the tip of the float needle could be corupt or missing
if you soaked the float needle in gumout over night that would not be good for the rubber seal

it could also be the o ring on the float needle assembly body that is allowing the fuel to flow into the bowl bypassing the float needle.


edited to correct float pin to float needle , sorry for the term error

 

Make sure that your valve clearances are in spec before you try to adjust the carbs. If they aren't, you are just wasting time.

K-MOE, Fitz is the master of the 550. I have 4 550's in my stable. Got my first in 87 and have gone from there. None as pretty as those Fitz owns.

 

does it have just 4 pipes on it with no muffler ? I do not see any in the photos

 

My intent is NOT to make this thread the information overload hour for you . . . .

In the name of safety - the brake line may 'seem' new, but to me it looks old and you would be better served with a stainless steel braided hose.
You can order parts from the most reliable source on the World Wide Web by clicking the logo in the upper right hand corner of this page - XJ4Ever.

 

Float pin length doesn't have anything to do with float height. Its jut a pivot. It cant be much longer... There's not too much clearance in the width of the channel for it

 

Seems to me he's using the term "float pin" to describe the float needle.

 

Will do.

Yeah... I've been researching for about a week before I posted, mostly googling "plz help site:xjbikes.com" and I heard a few people on here saying the most important thing is the collector box, so as long as the airbox and the collector box are both still OEM, universal aftermarket mufflers should not be an issue and won't require rejetting? Either way, some universal mufflers are already on their way.

With the bowls off and holding the carbs upside down, you cannot blow air through the fuel line. It's completely sealed. The floats move freely, and aren't the issue either. I must have just not done the fuel levels correctly. Also, I made sure not to let any gumout soak on the rubber part of the float needle.

I have ordered some Kroil and if that doesn't fix the gas tank issue, I may have to end up doing what hogfiddles suggests.

It didn't have a key at all, I had one made from a locksmith using the code, and then a cheap key made at rural king to force the gas cap with in case I break something. It works for both the ignition and the helmet lock, and it does turn on the gas tank as shown in the picture, but it doesn't seem to grab anything when it turns. The picture shows how far it turns at the maximum right now. Not sure if that's far enough to unlock it, or if the wrong key would even get it this far?

Yeah, I think I have my moneys worth in fairing pieces alone right now.

 

Just because no air gets through when you hold the carbs upside down is no indication the levels are correct. They need to close at a specific level, and the only way to PROPERLY test that is to get the carbs level,set up a clear tube from the drain port, and actually MEASURE the float levels, which for the 550 is 2mm from the carb body, +/- 1mm.

You can do the lazyman approach, but until you do the procedures correctly, you are only wasting your time. Just go for a quick read and check out the differences between the success stories, and the utter failures on these forums.

 

Here is a recent link on the gas cap if you have not found it. Looks like a lot of patience and heat paid off, it has lots of good suggestions:

http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/index...move-or-open-the-cap.48381/page-2#post-430345

 

I actually had saw that thread. That was the post that made me buy some Kroil before I go at it with a drill.

Also, I do have a lockpick set, and totally forgot to mention it wouldn't be an issue with the key anyway because I picked it before I got a key for it and still nothing.

Thanks for digging it up though.

Doing that was in reply to him suggesting the o-rings were shot, and me ruling that it most definitely was a float level issue.

 

Float dry setting: yamaha used to post that at 21.5mm for the xj550 carbs. Now they just post to do wet setting, but I still set initially dry at 21.5mmm

Seems to still be a good starting point.