XJ550 Starter Counter Part - Idler Gear Reduction ?

Hi guys, thanks for reading this.

1. Is the stock '81 xj550 starter motor suppose to be a "bendix" style - like most cars (the gear slides outward to catch the flywheel teeth) or not?
2. The gear that supposed to be engaged to the starter seems to be too far down (see pictures )

The starter motor is fairly new and it has been working fine.
Out of the blue, it does not "catch" or "engage" to its counterpart ( idler gear / starter reduction gear?)

The starter itself works fine (assuming it is not a "bendix" style) , and also bench-tested with good battery.

I tried to use a magnet and finger, just to see if that gear would move or spin a little if any. It does not at all.

What does it need to get it to work again?

Thanks guys!

 

The starter uses a sprauge type clutch on the alternator shaft that is driven by that idler gear, which is in turn driven by the starter nose gear. All the gears are in constant mesh.
Are you hearing a sound reminiscant of a can full of rocks rolling down a ramp? That is the rollers on the starter clutch skipping along the alternator shaft instead of gripping it.
Have you changed the oil recently? What grade and type of oil did you use? There are several causes for the slippage, but the oil is the easiest cause to address. We will explore other possibilities next.

 

Thanks, k-moe

When it (starter just spin but not engaged) happened for the very first time at parking lot, i went head and was able to "bump/roll start" the bike, by putting it in 3rd gear, and roll it forward quickly for about 20 feet, and successfully got back on the road.

With my full face helmet on, i didn't notice any strange noise at all. Went on the freeway for about 20 miles, reached the destination, idling, no helmet on, no strange noise.
That was it, and then i went ahead took the starter off of the bike.

There is no noise like that (no rocks in a can). The starter works normally without any rattle.
It has been on (non synthetic) Shell Rotella 15W-40. JASO MA. Oil change in the last 500 miles. WIX Oil Filter.

IIRC, right after i removed the starter off of the engine, I did put my finger and turned that gear (inside the engine, as pictured) and somehow it turned counter-clockwise for about half-inch, and it also dropped down, like it just lost its spindle, or something.

I really love to get this back on running again, so i could start the process in the right direction.

Thanks again

 

Hmmm, this will be interesting. The gear does appear way too low in the housing, but I can't understand how it would get that low without major engine noise and/or damage. It spins on a shaft/pin that is inserted from inside the clutch cavity, and then some sort of retaining device.

 

Yes, there is a pinned tab that is held by a bolt which retains the shaft that the idler gear runs on.

Can you use something (a magnet perhaps) to see if the gear can be moved upward in the case?

The shaft (and retainer) for that gear is accessable from behind the clutch, so you may consider pulling the clutch cover and looking for a loose bolt and a metal tab that might be sitting in there somewhere.

 

Thanks guys!

k-moe, i tried it with magnet as well as with screw-driver, to move that gear in the hole, but it would not budge.

also, as you suggested above, what do i need (tools, tricks) to do so?
BTW, do i need to use this tool ? http://www.harborfreight.com/impact-screwdriver-set-with-case-37530.html

I'm used to do cars engine swaps, but not motorcycles.
Looking forward to get on this soon.

 

Just took the clutch cover off, and here are 5 pictures of the inside...
What parts are missing or broken?

 

I don't think that PIN that is sticking out from the engine case (in 2 of the pictures) is proper. But I don't see the retainer strap/bracket anywhere in the bottom of the cavity....which might be an even bigger problem, because I think the same strap also secures the big bearing behind the other gear.

 

Thanks, Chacal

I have the same thought of that pin which appears to be too far outward and "hanging", so i think it could be the reason why "idler gear" on the other side (starter side) has fallen off of that pin?

What do i need to do now? I hope i don't have to tear down the entire engine, to get it fixed?

 

I think you can get by with pulling the clutch basket so you can access the pin and maybe find the retainer). You should be able to move the gear more easily with the pin removed (the gear is probably jammed against it) and set it back into place. Here is when Fitz is sorely missed because he has been inside of a 550 more than anyone else on this forum. I however am only going by the parts fiche. I agree with Chacal that the bearing retainer strap appears to be missing. it holds that pin and a bearing into place. Once you find it (or get another (assuming a PO forgot to put it back in)) clean the bolt hole with a good degreaser and use blue Loctite to be sure the bolt does not come out until you need it to.

I'd also carefuly inspect the idler gear once you get it free to be sure that none of the teeth are damged. Also get a new clutch basket nut locking tab. That isn't something you want to reuse.

 

Thanks, k-moe.

What parts (numbers) does it need? I have no visual knowledge of the (missing) parts needed.
I went looked it up online Service Manual, and saw Page 32 showing this chart....

 

Have you made sure that it is actually missing yet? You will find the bearing retainer in the crankcase list; Plate, brng cover 4G0-15381-00-00. I'm pretty sure Chacal has them.

 

The retainer bracket and bolt are not shown in this diagram; you need to go to the CRANKCASE folder to see it.

 

Salute to k-moe and Chacal.

I've read your replies back and forth, digested it, and finally understood and found the holy grail (missing) parts!!!

The half-moon-shaped retainer plate was still mounted and hanging on one allen screw, while the other allen screw was deep in the oil pan, fished it out by using magnetic antenna

Was able to pull the pin of the gear using a needle nose pliers and magnet without messing with the clutch housing at all.
Chop stick and stiff wire to fish and align the gear from that hole, slid the pin back all the way back in there, aligned the retainer plate, cleansed both of its allen screws, blue locktited them, and now all is good

Thanks a lot guys!

 

Excellent work.

 

Wow, this is (was) your lucky day, go buy a few lottery tickets while you're on this roll............!

 

Sweet. I was gonna reply to your tool question, and then you fixed it, presumably without an impact driver. Great stuff.
Still want some bonehead's advice about tools? Then read on!

The impact driver is a great tool to have. Loads of stuck screws on these old bikes! Just be sure the one you get has JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard?) bits, as opposed to ordinary Phillips. They differ in that the Phillips bit is designed to twist out to prevent overtightening, while JIS with its straight cuts won't twist out as easily. This prevents the stripping that is so common with tight Phillips screws.