ARRRRRGGGG!!!!! What new Purgatory is this!?

OK I think this bike is cursed! JUST put on the new RickCoMatic cleaned carbs. Ran great...twice. Came home to try and clean some grunge outta the crankcase with seafoam per a post here. I was going to run it 10 minutes then change the oil out. I put it on the center stand poured in the seafoam went to start it. First try cranks but doesn't start. Second try with choke on, tries to catch but crank is a little weaker. Third try no nothing, NO CRANK AT ALL! No click nothing. 8O I just charged the battery last night, I ran about 50 miles today. I've already drained out the oil and will add some new oil and redrain to remove all seafoam. Will also change oil filter if I can get that bolt loose.

I have:
brand new gas
inline fuel filter
freshly sealed gas tank
squeaky clean carbs
a new fuse box (checked the fuses)
new alternator brushes (horror story all it's own)
Checked the starter button seems OK
turn signals working
check oil light working

What now? I'm pretty sure this is electrical and not fuel related but I have no idea where to start.

I'm about ready to part the stupid thing out. :evil:

 

Oh yeah, I put in new spark plugs too.

 

At the starter solenoid, pull the rubber boots back a little, make sure you're in neutral, key on, then use a small screwdriver to jump between the large battery + wire and the large starter feed wire. That ought to run the starter.
If not, pull the starter, take it apart & check those brushes!

Dan

 

Cranked well first time, weak the second time, sounds like a dead/weak battery. You don't say anything about the battery? Old? New? Fully Charged?

The other possibility could be a starter motor issue. You could try to "jump" the starter motor on the bike and see if it turns over normally.
Have you had the starter motor apart to check the brushes, regrease the planetary gears, and check the bearings for problems?

 

PO said the battery was new...but who knows. I had just recharged it the previous night but I had to recharge it again tonight as well. I took it to get tested but it was inconclusive. I'll try again in the morning after I refill the oil. With the recharged battery I have turn signals tail light and oil level light but no headligth or neutral indicator light. Checked my fuses they seem to be OK. I have not pulled the starter yet guess that'll be next if the battery doesn't work out.

 

Some "Safety Circuit" Item stuck?

Side stand switch?
Clutch switch.

Shoot some WD-40 ... using the Tube applicator:

Into the Ignition Switch. Move the sliding "Gate" out of the way.
Into and around the KILL Switch.
Into the Clutch Switch on the Lever Perch.
Into the Switch and on the Linkage for the Side-stand Switch ... (Pull-away the rubber boot and get it in the Switch.
Move the Side stand UP and DN and shoot the spot where the Rod passes through the top of the stand anchor.

If this fails to make the starter engage.
Do as previously recommended above and SHORT the Solenoid to make the Starter spin.

If Shorting the Solenoid fails to make the Start Motor spin ...
Double-check for Neutral
Double-check for Neutral
Double-check for Neutral
Hook-up Battery Charger RED LEAD to Starter at the Nut beneath the Rubber Boot on Starter.
Touch the BLACK Charger Lead to Ground.

If the Starter fails to spin.
There is a fault at the Starter.

 

OK so off to a good start this morning. With a freshly filled and charged battery she started right up! I'm hoping that's all it was was a lack of fluids. If not I'll get a new battery. If that battery isn't getting charged should I look at the starter or the alternator? I really had to fight changing the alternator brushes. Those screws holding the brush holder plate were just STUCK!!!!!!!

Also changed out the second batch of oil after running her for about 10 minutes and got the filter off! Woo-Hoo! 12 mm box wrench and a piece of pipe with an elbow hooked over the end of the wrench for a little extra leverage. Feet against bike and PUUUUUULLLL!

Now onto the WD-40 some never sieze and a ride.

 

Check voltage just off idle for 13+ volts charging, then with everything shut off and key out take a battery cable off and put a test light between the cable and post, if it lights something is drawing current, first suspect would be to disconnect the alternator harness and see if the light goes out..

If so, something is shorted up and causing a drain from when you messed with the brushes..otherwise, pull fuses until the light goes out, then trace that circuit to find the load...

 

Oh the fun NEVER ends! Started her up this morning no problem off to work. Pulling into the parking space front tire hits some sand bam! Down I go. Nothing major hopped up acted like I did it on purpose. Anyhow, I went out to take a spin at lunch and it's refusing to start AGAIN. Since I've been having battery problems I popped it off and am charging it.

Here's the question...could my spill have screwed up the carbs or something? I really was just basically a fall over at about 1 mph. DOH!

Another silly question, what kind of RPMs should I be shifting at? I usually shift around 3500 or so. Too low? First bike still trying to figure it out.

 

Can't say on the fall, but as for shifting, 3500rpms is when I get a boost of power. Much too early to shift. I shift closer to 6Krpms if I'm accelerating decently. No need to redline the engine, but I imagine running at around 50% of your power band is fine.

 

It's situational.

Around town I shift in the Low end. In my neighborhood ... I shift in the Very Low end. I used to like coming-in like a Jet Fighter with all the power on in case I bolter ... but, when a more elderly than me gentleman asked nice ... I try to bring it in Dead-stick.

 

That sounds like your battery is no good. It can't keep a charge. If it were you alternator, I would think your battery would slowly die on you, and you would notice electrical problems when running on it. It COULD be your starter, but since you said you aren't keeping a charge, I would doubt it.

As for shifting, I think these bikes are really good at catering towards your needs. When I first got this bike, I would shift once over 3k, and I would shift though an extra gear before accelerating again. For instance, I start in 1st, accelerate, shift to 3rd, accelerate, shift to 5th, again, and finally 6th. Now, I am more apt to use all the gears, but still, I am not one for a loud bike, so I still shift around 3k, however, they redline at 9k, so you can (if you want) shift at 5k or better. I would think, though, you stand a better chance of burning more gas that way. Just my opinion, though. Don't think it truly matters.

 

It is definately possible that some fuel in the bowles went straight down into the intake. If this is the case Then the engine is flooded. Pull the plugs and let them dry. Crank the engine over a few times to help clear out the extra fuel. Dont forget to have the wire grouded to the case when cranking. Just put the wires on the plugs and lay the plugs against the block. This should let the system dry out. Install plugs and wires and off you go.
As far as the battery. Check the charging system 13 volts off idle would be good. If the headlight gets brighter when going from low rpm's to high rpm's you should be ok. Have the battery load tested though. It does not take too many times out in the cold we have here in Colorado to toast a battery.

 

When you dump a bike ... there's always the chance that you could throw a Float Pin and have gas just start pouring out.

I really thing you should stick a meter on the Battery and Monitor the Charging System ... just to know.

The current should fall to 11 or so during the cranking of the starter.
Bounce-up to 12 -- short of 13 during Idle.
As you increase rpm the Voltage should rise to 12.3~5 as the revs approach 16-50 -to- just shy of 18-hundred.

Beyond 18-Hundred it should rise to close to 14 and at 25-Hundred read 14.2 -to- 5 as the revs go above 25-Hundred ... at which the reading should be 14.2 -- Steady ... and Not exceed 14.5.

Get that meter out!

 

OK guys thanks for the input. I'm off to buy a meter. Now for a new or perhaps continuing question,the bike died on me twice when I came to a stop, the last time I couldn't get enough juice to get it started. Fortunately I was only about a block from home. Could a bad battery cause the bike to quit like that or is that a NEW problem?

 

All right, charged the battery up last night but haven't had a chance to meter it yet. I'll do that tonight when I get home. In the mean time I tinkered around with the headlight which is no longer coming on. While I was in there I thougth I'd try to figure out why my horn doesn't work. Hey look NO HORN! Checked the shop manual and I can't find the amp draw for the stock horn. Anybody know? I'd like to wire a replacement in the same place if possible. Also does anybody know which set of wires might be for the horn here's a pic.

 

Hmmm... here's a pic

 

Consensus says yes

 

On my bike, the wires for the horns are under the tank ... right near the coils.

 

Hi all,

So Samsr, was the yes concensus for would a bad battery cause the bike to die?

Rick thanks for the info now I know where to look.

So this is what I've done tonight. I replaced the cable from the alternator brushes since I think I may have damaged it previously and I had a spare. Since I had the starter off I cleaned and regreased it, checked the resistance per the manual and it looks OK. Rick I couldn't figure out your battery charger to starter trick but I did find the solinoid so I can try the shorting trick if need be. Did I mention that I have NO idea what I'm doing? LOL I can't do anything else for the moment. Next up is trying to start and testing the battery output. Man I hope it's just the stupid battery!

 

If the battery is over 2-years old.
Go to Sears.
Get the DieHard.
Fill it.
Charge it.

Badda-bing; badda-boom!

 

OK I may have killed something. Put freshly charged battery in turned key to on. Neutral light on, hit starter button and have a series of clicks. Try again it almost starts headlight comes on but doesn't quite catch. Then it's one click per hit of the start button and nothing else. I tried the screwdriver to the solenoid and battery trick,nothing at all. If I hold the screwdriver there and hit the starter just one click per hit. So did I kill the starter when I cleaned it? It had at least been trying to turn over before this.

 

FREEZE!!!

Don't move!

Drop the wrench and screwdriver!

Now, step away from that toolbox!!!

 

Yes, the battery will cause the the bike to die. TIME TO GET A NEW BATTERY. Take Rics advise. New battery then test the charging system.

 

Hey everybody!

Rick, funny-not real useful but funny. I just tossed the tools into the air and went inside. I actually followed your write up for cleaning the starter. Seriously though what did I do? Anyone? Anybody know a good mechanic in Denver?

 

A starter rebuild or removal and good internal cleaning may not hurt! I'd start with a cleaning with contact cleaner to eliminate any problems their and try again!

Is your battery brand new or did you just top off with distilled water and recharge?

I had a similar issue and a starter rebuild & new battery worked for me!?!?!

 

My best guess is that the Brushes aren't seated right.

That, or the Electrical Lead is shorted-out before the Brush.

Wrap the exposed section of the pigtail with some tape or brush-on some Liquid Electrical Tape and let it dry.

If you have a Meter ... Test the External Power Lug to the case of the starter.
There should be NO Continuity. If there is ... you have a Dead Short and need to be more careful installing the Brush Holder.

 

Put it in the back of your truck or trailer and bring it on down to colorado springs with a sixpack of brew and we will get her running. Colortuned, synced and all. I am up for it. Shoot me a pm if interested.

 

Hey all,
So my bike finally seems to be running! This is due entirely to the help of Samsr. Drug my my bike down to him this weekend and he got me all set up! Got it running on all 4 cylinders, colortuned and synced and, most importantly, fixed my screw up on the starter. Yes it's true if you clean the starter you should really make sure you put it back together right. Or you could do it my way and put the brushes in backwards. Rick you were right they weren't seated right! So I guess I get a moron of the month award! Now hopefully all that's left is new starter brushes PUT IN CORRECTLY and a petcock rebuild (Samsr figured out too). Thanks again for all the input guys and Samsr especially for all the help!!!!

Maybe I'd better get that Motorcycle maintenance for Dummies book that I saw this week.......

 

No problem, Glad to help. Another XJ back on the road. It is good to give back to the comunity that helped me. so much during my troubles with my bike. Safe riding Babaloo01, and everyone else for that matter.