wierd ticking, knocking noise

When I start my bike (85 maxim 700) it makes a ticking noise, almost like the noise you hear on a bicycle at low speed when there is a stick in the spokes....kinda a metal on metal tick. any ideas?

 

An update. The noise is more of a clanking noise....at first I thought there was something loose on the bike, like a metal cover rattling against something else. That isn't the case. I checked oil, it is fine, and still it rattles. I guess rattle would be the best way to describe the noise. You can hear it very clearly when it is idling, and after running (at speed) the noise goes away. It will come back, if you stop the bike, or sometimes while accelerating. Any ideas? Help!

 

Guess!!!
Valves but now its clanking..thats worrysome
My .02

 

If it is valves, is that something I could learn to do, or take it in?

 

If that is indead the problem then it can be done with some time and experience.
Do you have mechanical knowledge?
Haynes manuals can show all parts, but if you search some of the forums there might be existing posts.

Someone needs to give their opinion on the possible prob, at least before you start tearing the engine apart.

Knowedge is power

 

How many miles on the maxim. Your cam chain tensioner might need to be manually adjusted. Or worst case scenario, cam chain replaced. The mileage should tell us which.

 

I have 17100 miles on it....was running fine until 2 days ago...just came up with that knocking out of the blue. Having read around, I am wondering about the possibility of bad gas...will try that cure today with a fresh tank, and some octane booster. What do you think?

I will try to isolate the location of the noise tonight, and let you all know more; as well as answer any more questions.

-tim

 

reset the cam chain tensioner. it is easy to do and will eliminate that possibility.

 

OK.

17,000 -- Possibly a loose Cam Chain ... if you have a Manual Adjuster I'd go there first.

Valves. (Some noises are GOOD)
Check the Valve Clearances. The Feeler Guage is the most simple to use of any hand tool.

U-Joint.
A bad U-Joint is the Ventriloquist of Automotive Technology.
The noise happens one place and you hear it all over the bike.
Do a little research on U-Joints and then check yours by putting the bike on the workstand ... selecting second gear ... rocking the rear wheel to and fro.
If it's a Johnny Be Goode and sounds like "Ringing a bell" ... you win this weeks most miserable job to do during riding season.
(It ain't that bad! But it still sucks to have to do one)

Something that is supposed to be tight ... ain't!
Always fun hunting for a loose something or other.
Probe the engine while its making the noise and pinpoint the prpoblem to someplace closer than: "On the bike"

Bad gas ... Pinging???
Possibly.
The easiest fix of them all.
$2.89 ... $2.99 ... $3.09 <~~ Guess which one you should try for a tank-full???

Be "Very Tank-full" if that's all there is too it!

 

The collars that hold the exhaust pipes to the head will make interesting noises if loose.

Seems like the nuts on those studs only exist in one of 2 states:

1) Siezed so tight that you will be spending $$$ with the machinist to get what's left of the studs out after you try to loosen them.

2) Laying on the shoulder of the freeway because if they ain't in state #1 they jump right off.

When you consider the RPMs we turn on these things it's amazing we aren't spewing fastners like a fountain when we go down the road.

 

So here is the update today:

Last night my brother and I searched for the root of the problem. Used the ol' fuel line as a stethascope trick, and narrowed the sound down to the valves (he thinks, maybe something else, just not sure.) I don't have that much mechanical experience on motorcycles, though I am great with directions and great tearing stuff apart and putting it together again. (That is why I am in engineering!) So he is suggesting for me to compression test it, which I will do after work today (bummer not riding today, perfect day here in Washington state, no rain, lots of sun.) What do y'all think?

Cam chain reset...How do I do that? Is it easy? Do I need an special tools?

Valve Clearances...Feeler Guage....what is it? How do I use it? What am I looking for?

Not bad gas, though...Put premium in with octane booster. More horseys, same sound.

Collars to the exaust pipes...that is what I was hoping it was....but I cannot get them to move at all....so no go on that.

What else?

 

An 85 has an automatic tensioner. Very easy.

1) Remove the crankcase cover (left side) and rotate the engine through 2 normal revolutions

2) Then quickly reverse direction and the tensioner should take up slack on the chain.

Basically you force the chain to slacken and the tensioner will extend to take make the chain tight again.

Done.

 

I understand how to rotate the engine through two revolutions (with the starter?) How do I go backwards?

 

On the 81 550, it is a manual tensioner. Grab a 12mm deep socket and a 10mm regular socket and get to work. You will also need a 6" (minimum) extension. The 12mm deep socket will take care of the lock nut and the 10mm one will loosen the bolt.

1) remove left side cover and rotate engine until the tick mark on the crank lines up with the C on the block.

2) Loosen cam tensioner locknut

3) loosen cam bolt

4) tighten bolt

5) tighten lock nut

6) re-install carbs, tank, and side cover.

Ride.

 

don't use the starter. Take the left side cover off (you will see the coil pick-ups under there). There is a square shaped part in the middle of the pick-up plate. You put a wrench on that and turn two revolutions clockwise by hand. Then reverse directions on the wrench. Do this by hand manually...No starter involved. You can make it turn easier by removing the plugs.

 

Okay, will do.

I still think it is the valves, though. The cam would cause it (in my understanding, anyways) to run bad in all cylinders; whereas I can definately hear one that has the noise.

 

yes, perhaps, however adjusting cam chain tension is much easier than opening the valve train up and checking clearances.

 

I figured that checking compression would be easier, too. I will do the cam adjustment, don't get me wrong.

What should my compression readings be?

 

What size spark plugs do I have? 14, 16 or 18mm? I am looking at compression testers, and am stuck....

 

I'm not sure on the XJ700 compression readings...my guess is higher than 100 is what you want, but don't quote me on that.

As for the size, I believe the 700 is 14mm.

 

You gotta get a book.

ALL the questions are answered in the Manual.

Buy a YAMAHA Factory Manual specific to your bike.

The Manual pays for itself the 1st Hour you use it.
As an engineer ... you'll be happy to see the schematics and exploded views.

Plus, it has step-by-step ... enumerated operations ... to do all the maintenance and repair items.

Buy a Factory Book and use us to fill-in any blanks or provide short-cuts.

 

You don't want to use the starter, you need to remove the timing cover. In the center of the rotor you will see two flats that allow you to use a wrench to turn the crankshaft of the motor. Turn it in the direction of the arrow for two revolutions, then quickly go back the other way.

You might hear a small click which means that the tensioner has taken up some slack. Do it a couple of times to be sure, and then maybe take it for a ride and do it again.

My bike got much quieter after I did this procedure to "remind" the tensioner that it is automatic.

 

I have ordered the XJ cd....do I still need the manual?

 

the manual helps...but what would also help is to know where exactly the best place to get the manual is.

 

Factory Manual:

Link: http://www.yamahapubs.com/html/itemsear ... del=XJ700N

 

I worked on it a little last night, though I didn't get to compression test it (that's tonights chore). I tried the cam chain adjustment, and that didn't change the sound at all. No loose bolts around the exaust, tried all of them. Noise still sounds like it is coming from the block or valves. Tried revving the engine, and taking a spark plug out, one at a time, to see if there was anything there. On one of them, (if you number them from left to right), number 2 from the left, made the sound less, even not there at times, but it didn't totally go away, either.

So compression testing tonight.

Anybody know of any shops in the Portland, Oregon area that will look at and work on bikes this old? Everywhere I called won't work on them older than 1992. I'm stuck!

 

With nothing on our Bike's that's considered a "Plug-'n-play" part ... more and more places are rejecting doing the work on old bikes.

The New Bike's don't require a whole lot of troubleshooting. They're Solid State. Plug it into a Diagnostic Computer and the Software points to the problem.
The hardest thing a Tech has to do is get-buy all the Plastic Parts to get his hands on the oart that needs replacing.

And, that's what they do. Swao it out for a new one or one that's been Factory reconditioned. Easy money.

When an Old Bike comes-in ... they have to have a good idea what's wrong.
When a couple of things aren't right; that ruins their day.
They'd rather do three or four high-tech Bike's than spend that time on just doing one Work Order.

The Dealership's bacj them up by telling you that they don't work on the Older Bike's anymore.
Losing your business isn't going to slow down the process of them doing multiple Bike's with a computer telling them what to look for!

 

That is a nice commentary, Rick, but doesn't really help in this situation.

 

did you pop the valve cover off yet to inspect the cam lobes and check valve clearances?

 

I'm still engaged in helping you find that noise.

What are your most recent findings?

 

A plug not firing will make a nice knocking sound. Have you checked them? Let the bike idle and pull one plug wire at a time. When you find the one that doesn't make the engine sound any different, then you have found it. Cheap insurance is changing the plugs.

 

Pulled each plug one at a time, didn't get rid of the sound, although it changed the sound a little in one cylinder. Took it to a shop, and they said possible bearing going out, or maybe the cam chain slipper? Whatever that is....

But the couple of other people I talked to said the noise wasn't low enough to be either of those things, and suggested the compression test (which I haven't gotten too, what with sick kids and work), and suggested that the exaust pipes might be the problem. That got me wishful, as this particular guy said that the tubes are double-walled, and sometimes one will break away from the other, making a aweful racket. So I took my rubber mallet to the pipes, but nothing. Bummer.

So, that leads me to a question....When I got it home today, and then went to start back up, it acted like the battery was dead....wouldn't even turn over. Eventually, after a couple combinations of turning the key on/off, and such, it started up. Could the alternator (or whatever bikes have) be going out and cause the noise I am hearing? Or the starter?

 

Since you have already said the noise is rotational and variable with rpm's ... there's a few things you can look for and test for.

Look at the "Tracks" on the Alternator Rotor and see if they look "Out of Round" or the width of the path isn't perfectly round.

Place a bolt into the end of the shaft and see if a Dial Gauge tells a story when the Engine is turned-over without the Plugs in place.

Remove the Cam Bearing Caps ~> One at a time <~ Lay a length of PlastiGuage on the Cam Bearing and replace the Bearing Cap, tightening it to Specs.

Remove the Cap, once again, and take the squeezed-flat strand of PlastiGuage and measure it on the Scale of the Envelope it comes in.

You'll be able to determine if the Bearing is worn by comparing the PlastiGuage's Envelope read-out of the tolerance to the Specs in the Technical Data Section of the Shop Manual.

There are NO half-shells to replace if the Bearings and surfaces are out of Spec. The fix would be a used Cylinder Head that passed the above mentioned test with no other issues at fault.

 

Okay here is my update.

Took me forever to get the right size socket to get the spark plugs out (I'm not a natural grease monkey!) Finally got it, but in the last day or so my starter has gotten finicky. It turns over sometimes, and sometimes just clicks. I checked my battery, and it was fine, cold, 11.92, running, 12.20, turning over, 11.52. I checked the wire that was hooked to the starter, and when I hit the starter button, it has the full juice going to it...but doesn't turn over. I hear a loud click (from the thing under the seat, but no turning over by the starter.
The bike will start, if I get it rolling and pop the clutch, and will stay running till I turn it off.
Can't compression test it if the starter won't work. Do I have a bad starter? Could that be the source of my noise?

-tim

 

I would say your voltage is not fine, it's low. If you rev your engine and get above 2,000 rpm what's your voltage? should be at least 14.2 ~ 14.8 volts.
If you get full voltage to the wire at the starter and the starter won't spin, it suggests that you need to pull the starter and check it over for problems. Could be bearings, brushes, fried windings, broken wire, or just need a good cleaning and lube job. Take a look at this thread....
http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=5357.html
A starter is only used when you push the button, so it won't be a source of noise when the engine is running unless there's a short in the wiring causing the starter to keep running, which would burn it up because it's not designed to run for very long.

 

yeah, sounds like the starter needs to be overhauled with some new brushes. Clean it up real well as it will probably be filled with carbon dust.

 

Measuring battery voltage*:

12.8v = 100% Charge
12.6v = 75% Charge
12.4v = 50% Charge
12.2v = 25% Charge
12.0v = 0% Charge

*This chart is for reference purposes only. Voltage is measured with no external loads present.

 

You have to check-out the starter. If you put 12Volts to it ... is should spin.

If is doesn't ... you need to look at the Brushes situation, for sure.

 

There's no chance it could be this could it?

 

When I start my bike (85 maxim 700) it makes a ticking noise, almost like the noise you hear on a bicycle at low speed when there is a stick in the spokes....kinda a metal on metal tick. any ideas?[/quote]

I had exactly that sound and it got worse..... I have an XJ550 1984.
I suspected there was an exaust leak and the bike needed a tune so I got them to set the valve clearances..... They said there was no exaust leak but the cam chain tentioner had run out of adjustment. I ordered a new cam chain and they fitted it and oh wouldn't you know it they found when they tried to check the exaust bolts one just pulled out....... Fixed that as well and now the sound has gone. Sounded a bit like big end slop.

 

does this only happen in neutral when the bike is idling with the clutch lever release and it goes away with the lever pulled in?

or is this an all the time type thing.

 

Those noises from exhaust leaks are down-right scary. They sound (and almost feel; too) like a Big End Bearing has spun.

An easy way to test for an Exhaust Leak is to tape a small "Flag" of Paper Towel to the end of a Probe.

Probe around the Exhaust Collars and watch for the Flag to flutter if there's a leak.
Sometimes, the Exhaust Flange Donuts will just need to be reseated and the Collar tightened.
Those Donuts can be "Saved" if they're not burned-through. Spray them with Permatex High-Tack Spray-A-Gasket (2-Coats) ... and, then ... shoot some of the spray into a Tuna Can and "Paint" a coat on the Gasket Seat.

When everything's really sticky and ready to be tightened ... tighten the Collar evenly and the Permatex will seal-up the leak.

This job is a 8 on the 0 -to- 10 scale of Messy.
Gloves won't help.
The fingers stick together.

Just shoot some Carb Cleaner into a rag to help get the stuff off where you don't want it.
If you get it on Clothes ... it's there for ever!