Clutch switch electrical issue

Hi All,

Long time no post. Love the new look.

My XJ650 Maxim has a wiring issue that I need to solve to pass inspection. It cannot be bypassed.

The clutch switch was missing so I bought a similar switch. It fits in the clutch lever but has a green and yellow active wire instead of a black and white wire. I changed the connectors of both wires and hooked it up -- no big deal.

My issue is this. When the bike is in gear and the clutch lever is not engaged the starter relay clicks and the bike will try to start. It will not start when the clutch is engaged. The starter relay switches off when I squeeze the handle.

Is this not the opposite of what it's supposed to do? Is the purpose of this switch so that you cannot start the bike when it is in gear unless you have the clutch engaged? If so, why is it backwards?

Things that have occurred to me:

- Do I have something wired backwards? I tried switching the wires around. No effect.
- Did I buy the wrong switch? I hooked up an old switch that I'd removed from another bike because it was loose but still functioned. The effect was the same.

Any insights are much appreciated.

Thank you,

Aaron.

Here's a pic for all who are interested.

 

where did you buy the switch
and yes if bike is in gear it should not start unless clutch is pulled in

 

Thanks XJ550H. I bought it at a local shop. The switch appears to work and shows resistance on a voltmeter when pressed manually.

I should also mention that the wiring has been altered from stock. I've labeled the wires as it was when it was given to me but it has definitely been altered.

 

HCP452 OEM clutch hand lever SAFETY SWITCH, complete with lead harness. Fits all of the following models: XJ550 all models, XJ650 all models, XJ700 all models, XJ750 Maxim and Midnight Maxim models, XJ1100, and 1981 XS1100 models. NOTE: wires and connector shell color differ from originals, but it does not matter which way the wires are installed, as these are merely "on-off" switches. Wire leads are approximately 6" shorter than originals. Also, if using this switch with the HCP3284 clutch lever holder bracket, one of the alignment tabs will need to be broken off (as the HCP3284 no longer has slots for both of the original alignment tabs).
$ 19.95

 

sounds like a problem with the starter safety relay

the switch should conduct when clutch is pulled in

if switch is off of bike it should conduct
when button is pushed in it should be open

give me a few minutes i will go check one i have

 

That is indeed the opposite of what is supposed to happen. I would do two things.
First run a continuity test on the switch to see if it is normally-open or normally-closed (you want a normally open switch).
Second, if the switch is normally-open, trace the wires and see where they go. Then tell us what the color ofdot on that realy is. It may be a case of having the wrong relay in that socket.

 

switch is normaly closed conducting when out of bike , which replicates clutch being pulled in
when you press in button it is open not conducting which replicates clutch lever out

 

part number this is seca 550 number but it is supposed to be the same switch

 

Yes, assuming that he has a switch that is working the correct way, and not a switch that is for some other application. The statement that there is resistance when the switch is pressed is what has me curious. Infinite resistance? Some other value?

To be clear, I was asking about the switch that he has, not the switch that he is supposed to have.

 

Thanks XJ 550H. I'm not looking to buy anything.

Hello K-moe. I believe I understand. When I push the clutch lever the voltmeter shows about 1 ohm of resistance. In that position the plunge switch would be open, correct? Thus, it should be a normally open switch?

The relay has a blue dot. I switched that out already with another that has a blue dot and the same number and it did the same thing.

 

Bad joke deleted.

 

It seems to be the correct relay.

Should I be getting a different switch? One that works opposite to the one I've got? Am I correct that mine is normally open?

I'm sure the shop will exchange it for me if that's the case.

 

From: http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/the-ultimate-relay-switch-sensor-and-diodes-guide.27543/

Starting/Ignition Cut-Off/Neutral Safety relay:

NOTE: all XJ700 models and XJ750-X models use a consolidated relay assembly (mounted under and to the rear of the fuel tank, on the wishbone frame triple-tube joint) which combines the turn signal flasher, the turn signal canceller relay unit, and the starter circuit cut-off relay.

Location:
- on all XJ550 models: in front of the coil rear mounting bracket.
- on all XJ650 Maxim/Midnight Maxim/RJ Seca models: under the gas tank, in-between the frame tubes, on a welded bracket just behind the flasher self-canceller relay.
- on all XJ650 Turbo models: on the right side of front fairing main support bracket.
- on all XJ700 and XJ750-X models: part of the consolidated relay assembly listed further below.
- on all 1981-83 XJ750 Seca models: under the gas tank, in-between the frame tubes, on a welded bracket just behind the flasher self-canceller relay.
- on all 1981-84 XJ750 Maxim and Midnight Maxim models: under the gas tank, in-between the frame tubes, on a welded bracket just behind the flasher self-canceller relay.
- on all XJ900 models: under the seat, in the "electrical tray".
- on all XJ1100 models: under the fuel tank, behind the right side ignition coil.

Identification:
- on all models except XJ700 or XJ750-X models:
- small metal (original) or plastic (replacement) "cube" relay, inked 4H7-00, 4H7-01, or 12R-01 on the top face.
- has no colored paint mark on the bottom terminal connector block.
- sometimes labeled or described in manuals and diagrams as a "clutch switch unit", a "neutral safety relay", or an "ignition cut-off" relay.
- normally open; has an internal diode.
- plugs into a connector shell which has the following set of wires going to it:

Harness connector wire colors:
- on all XJ550 all models, XJ650 all models, XJ750 all non-X models, and XJ1100 models:
* Red wire with white tracer stripe
* another Red wire with white tracer stripe
* Black wire with yellow tracer stripe
* solid Light blue (sky blue) wire

 

By push the clutch lever I assume that you mean squeese (pull) the clutch lever toward the grip. The switch should be closed (low resistance) at that point, so It appears that you have the correct type of switch, but the wrong relay. You have the sidestand relay (blue dot) installed in the ignition safety circuit.

Swap the two and you'll be all fixed.

Sidestand (kickstand) Relay:

Location:
- on all XJ550 models: left side, onto a welded bracket just behind the rear frame cross tube.
- on all 1982-84 XJ650 Maxim models: onto a welded bracket outbound of the left outer frame tube, just behind the left coil.
- on all XJ650RJ Seca models: under the front of the tank, behind the turn signal flasher relay.
- on all XJ650 Turbo models: on a tab bracket welded to the right frame down tube, below the airbox.
- on all XJ700 and XJ750-X models: under the left frame side cover, on the plastic regulator-rectifier mounting plate.
- on all 1981-83 XJ750 Seca models: onto a welded bracket outbound of the left outer frame tube, just behind the left coil.
- on all 1982-84 XJ750 Maxim/Midnight Maxim models: under the left frame side cover, on the plastic regulator-rectifier mounting plate.
- on all XJ900 models: under the seat, in the "electrical tray".
- on all XJ1100 models: under the fuel tank, behind the left side ignition coil.

Identification:
- small metal (original) or plastic (replacement) "cube" relay, inked 4U8-00, 4U8-01, or 4U8-02 on the top face.
- has a blue paint mark or blue locking tab shroud on the bottom of it.
- normally closed; does not have an internal diode.
- plugs into a connector shell which has the following set of wires going to it:

Harness connector wire colors:
- on all XJ550, all 1982-84 XJ650, XJ700, XJ750 models, all XJ900, and XJ1100 models:
* Red wire with white tracer stripe
* Black wire with white tracer stripe
* Blue wire with yellow tracer stripe
* solid Black wire

 

Hi K-Moe. I've found the starter relay and it appears to be marked 4U8-00. Remember I'm in Canada.

 

I'm not selling anything just happen to have a switch on hand

 

Starting/Ignition Cut-Off/Neutral Safety relay:
- small metal (original) or plastic (replacement) "cube" relay, inked 4H7-00, 4H7-01, or 12R-01 on the top face.
no color dot
XJ650 Maxim and Midnight Maxim models:

Flasher: near the steering headpipe, on right side frame rail, under the right side ignition coil.
Flasher canceller: under the rear of gas tank, behind ignition coils
Starter motor solenoid/relay: on right hand side, attached to and behind the battery box.
Diode block: inside the headlight housing.
Starter/Ignition cut-off relay (no color): behind the turn signal self-canceller. (note: the drawing and the description in the service manual is wrong).
1980-81 Sidestand (kickstand) relay (blue): did not use.
1982-84 Sidestand (kickstand) relay (blue): frame bracket outbound of LH frame tube, just behind the left ignition coil.
Headlight relay (yellow): behind the left frame side cover, on the plastic regulator-rectifier mounting plate. (note: the drawing and the description in the service manual is wrong).
Neutral switch: in a hole in the bottom of the crankcase, just "outside" of the oil pan, on the bottom of the engine, up inside a recessed "well".

 

Doesn't matter what country you are in. The relays are all from Japan, and the wiring harness is the same worldwide. Bue dot is side stand. No color is ignition cutoff.

4u8-oo is the sidestand relay, and you have it in the wrong spot.
Go look at what relay you have in the sidestand relay socket. They physically interchange, but are electrically different. In fact they work exactly the opposite of one another.

 

thats not the Starter/Ignition cut-off relay (no color)
does it have a blue color dot?
4U8-00. is the side stand relay

 

This sounds promising. I'm on my way to switch them out. Sorry got distracted there for a minute.

 

I switched out the relays and it works!

Thank you very much XJ550H and k-moe! I'll put the rest of the bike back together tomorrow and hopefully everything is good.

Your help is sincerely appreciated.

 

Oh, just one more quick question. My starter relay is marked 3H5-00. This is for an XJ650 Maxim 1983. Do I have the right one?

 

Sorry, rather my starter... shut-off switch? The brass cube thing we just swapped.

 

no
Headlight Relay:

Location:
- on all XJ550 models: under the gas tank, in-between the frame tubes, on a welded bracket just behind the flasher self-canceller relay.
- on all XJ650 Maxim/Midnight Maxim/RJ Seca models: behind left side cover, below the TCI and Regulator-Rectifier unit.
- on all 1981-83 XJ750 Seca models: behind the left side cover, below the TCI and Regulator-Rectifier unit.

All other models do not use a headlight relay.
Identification:
- small metal "cube" relay, inked 3H5-00 on the top face.

this link ID's all relays as well as the color wires that should be connedted
http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/the-ultimate-relay-switch-sensor-and-diodes-guide.27543/