XJ700 Owner Needs Help with Clutch Slipping!!

Hey guys, i am new to this site, but i am sure it will be a valuable asset!!! I bought a '85 700 Maxim off ebay a few months ago and have been really pleased with it. But now i can feel the clutch slipping a bit under hard acceleration. I'm thinking its the clutches. I havent owned a bike since i was a kid about 20 years ago and didnt work on that one. I am a descent shade tree mechanic, but have never worked on a bike. My questions are this: #1 what is the best resource for tech info? (i see the XJ CD on here)
#2 where is the best place to get replacement parts? (yamaha, or is there a cheaper aftermarket at much better price?) and #3 how hard is it to replace the clutches? i have changed plenty in trucks before, but i couldnt believe it when the woman a yamaha said there were like 22 parts i would need!!! Do you change them all or do you just inspect and replace the ones that are bad??? Thanks a million for your time in advance. Trey

 

The BEST ~~> VERY BEST source of Information is Contained in the Official YAMAHA Factory Workshop Manual.

The Manual is a BOOK ... Not a CD.
The Manual does not require a Computer.
The Manual can be set on the floor and opened to the page you need to refer too.
You don't have to Print the Pages.

The Manual Costs 60-Bucks.
The Manual Pays for itself the moment you open the front cover and begin to accumulate knowledge and are walked through the process Step-by-step.

Hurray for the XJCD Set. Bravo.

But if I had my choice between the CD and the Manual ... I'm picking the Manual for my Bike.

CD's are for the music you listen to while you are reading the Manual and busy fixing your bike.

Why some intelligent, Technically-oriented, writer, for a popular motorcycle web site, continues to tolerate, the flagrant, unlicensed, Copyright Infringement, that individuals have used ... ( ~~> Now, GET THIS PART ) for PROFIT is WAY, WAY, WAY beyond me!

You'd think they'd race to get as many sold as possible until that day when a self-respecting scribe drops a dime on them to Yamaha Publications.

 

Welcome to the site treybaxter.
What kind of oil are you using? The clutch is a wet clutch and the oil can't contain friction modifiers. The other thing to check is clutch cable adjustment, a bit too tight and you will slip under load!

Personal preference, but as RickCoMatic says, great to have a manual on a bench beside you! The XJCD is a collection of the Yamaha service manuals and owners manuals that have been scanned to pdf files. It also has a parts cross reference program which is handy.

With a 20+ year old bike you get parts where ever you can find them.

You can find parts blow ups of your bike at Yamaha's web site at.....
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/myyam ... there.aspx
There's 8 friction plates, 8 clutch plates, 6 clutch springs, and a few other items. The manual will give specs on the plates and you could inspect yours to see if they really need replacing.

 

Thanks a lot guys. You hit on something with the oil, Nick. See i asked the P.O. what type of oil he used. He told me something but i dont remember the name (wasnt yamalube). But he stressed not to use regular 20W40. One day i was on my way to work and the oil light came on prob because i got seepage around the valve covers. I was in the sticks, so i stopped at a conv store. I got this friend i work with that has owned bikes for years. I callled him and asked him about the oil. He told me that he used reg old 20W50 and that a mechanic at a bike shop told him that this was perfectly fine. So i added prob about half a quart. I suspected the bike had the tinyest slip in it from the day i got it. It was almost unnoticeable, but now it is definitely there. If i do an oil change with the right oil, do you think this may help? thanks a million guys!!

 

mobil delvac 1300 super, worked for me
pdf's can still be found on the web, but hardcopy yamaha is the best
a new filter would be best but at least drain the old one if you don't

 

It will eliminate that as a possibility and if it fixes the problem... great if the problem is still there, then you go to the next possibility.. clutch cable adjustment.

Here's a thread discussing oil.......
http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=4721.html

 

I have the same bike with 47,000 miles on it. I have been using 15w40 in it from day one and never had a problem with the oil. I did have a clutch slipping issue a while back (lots of pics in my gallery), I tore the whole clutch down, measured everything, found everything in spec but the springs. They were just a little short. I changed the springs and have never had a problem since. Check the springs unsprung length . i beleive (off the top of my head) they should be 1.96 inches min. The new heavy duty springs were hard as _ell to pull at the lever but smoothed right out and became very pleasurable after a couple days bedding.

 

A good many Clutch Problems originate from making the simple mechanism for throwing-out the Clutch ... complicated.

The Clutch needs to be adjusted to get the Maximum throw-out and a Full Release.

It starts with the proper positioning off the Throw-out ROD extending down into the Case.
That Axle Rod needs to be making Contact with the Release Pinion.
You need to rotate it until it contacts the Pinion and hold it against the Pinion when the Push Lever Arm is connected to the splines at its end.

The Push Lever needs to be connected to the Cable and HELD ... with ZERO End Play when the Cable is adjusted and tightened at the Lower Cable Attachment Bracket.

The Cable needs to be taunt.
Almost tight.
Make the Final Adjustment by using the Knurl Adjuster at the Clutch Perch.

If the Cable is too tight allowing the Clutches to slip ... you back-off the Knurl a bit.
If its too loose and you "Clunk into gear" or have "Red Light Creep" tighten the Cable to get more Throw-out.

 

Thanks a lot guys. I'm just going to have to tear into it soon to understand what's going on. I'm no bike mechanic, but i am sure its just like the first time i changed a clutch in my truck as a teenager. My dad tried to explain at length how it worked, but until you tear it down yourself, you just cant appreciate it. Going to start with an oil change, though i dont think that's going to solve it. Next step it to get a service manual, and go from there. Thanks to all who posted!

 

Changed the oil late this afternoon. I cant believe how low it was. havent measured the oil that i drained, buy my guess it was only half full. Anyone have a remedy for a stained sight glass? My oil light came on sporadically, but everytime i put oil in it, i thought i was over filling because of the stained glass that looked like oil was full.

 

the clutch still slips. im not driving the bike now. i wanted to order the cd for some help when i tear it down, but i get no response.....can you still get the cd? how long does it take? or rickcomatic, is there somewhere i can get some more details on your adjustment process, or is it pretty cut and dry once i pull the cover off the thing?

 

Anyone know the name of that little clip that holds the throw arm back? I am needing to buy one, but don't know the technical name for it.

Thanks

 

c-clip? the one on top of the shaft

 

Return Spring

 

Thanks Rickomatic.

 

I tore the clutch down last week, the fibers were all ok, by the specs, i think maybe the springs were a bit weak but the metal plates all appeared nice and flat. I went ahead and ordered springs, metals, and fibers from Barnett. Any of you guys have any experience with barnett parts? I suppose its a bit late to ask that now, lol..... I hope to have it all back together by Friday, cause i'm ready to ride!

PS, anybody got any suggestions on cleaning the sight glass while i got the clutch cover off? Its stained and hard to tell where the oil level is.

 

Unless you want to Pop-off the baffle ...

Make a tool by bending a large paper clip and stuff some carb cleaner soaked cotton balls in behind the glass.

Use the tool to clean-out the back of the glass and the baffle. You might have to do it several times ... but the Carb Cleaner will cut the stain and leave the sight glass looking as good as new!

 

Thanks Rick! Carb cleaner was my first thought, but i learned my lesson years ago when i cleaned the sight glass on a lathe and found out it was acrylic, and not glass, and it completely made a white crystalline mess of it. So these days i try to ask before putting it on "glass", and i recommend to anyone to test a small area of what they are cleaning with it on non-metal parts.

 

Me too.
Wrecked a nice Uni-syn Carb Synchronizer that way; too!

Use Isopropyl Alcohol if you get a hinky feeling about the Carb Cleaner.

 

ok, guys i am dropping my new clutch package in today. Question....the aftermarket friction plate (#1, the one with the notch) doesnt have a notch in it. I dont see any difference with a scale as far as the width goes on any of the tabs. Does it matter how i place it? Also, the clutch springs are larger in diameter and a little shorter than the ones that came out. they are right at 2.00 inches. but they dont want to drop into the holes on the pressure plate all the way. the part number on the box is correct by the barnett web site. do i try to push them in all the way?

 

I think they should fit the holes. Maybe something got crossed-up with the Hardware.

Call the Barnett Tech Line and get the 4-1-1

We had this issue come-up, earlier this season, and it caused a MAJOR Problem. The Pressure Plate Mounting Bolt ... Broke.

Head that problem off at the pass. Don't use the ill-fitting springs until you hear from Barnett.

My opinion is that they shouldn't be larger in diameter than the ones you took out and they should FIT the Mounting Hole like a glove!

 

Thanks a million Rick. My feeling exactly. As bad as i hate not to be able to ride this weekend, i know it needs to fit to the bottom of the hole. I guess i was just wanting to hear that some of the springs may bed down with riding. But as for now, i will just have to wait till monday to get an answer from barnett.

 

Use the old springs. Ride.

Replace them after-words.

 

Ok, here's what i've learned so far with all this. First of all the clutch was slipping under moderate accelleration. I changed the oil and filter, because i knew i had some oil in it that may not be compatible, and that didnt help. I checked the cable, no slack, not too tight, seemed to be getting full release. I knew the PO told me he had changed clutches not too long ago, but he didnt respond to my emails, so i really cant get the details. So....i had no choice but to tear it down. Ordered a whole new clutch. But my fibers looked good, measured .118 out of the .110 spec on the cd. Metals looked flat against a surface plate. So i figured the springs must be weak even though they were longer than the required length. Now i got the fibers and metals in, and am about to install the springs and ran into the above problem. All that being said, (i hate this is so long) if my parts were all in spec, why would the clutch slip? If i put the old springs back in it, then what have i really changed? Its easy to tear it down again if i need to, i just like to have an explanation as to why things arent working. Thanks guys for reading and thanks for the good advice.

 

The old Friction Plates could have been contaminated with a Synthetic Oil or some additive.

Plus, there;s only so much wear you get off the Original Friction Plates. Once they are worn to the limit, they slip no matter what springs are in there.

You're doing the right thing getting it all figured-out before doing the Job and possibly messing-up something.

My recommendation for using the old speings was just to get you in motion ... not to be a permanent thing. Once you get the right New Springs ... they are the ones you go with.

I just wanted to be sure you didn't try to tighten a protruding Spring Bolt and have it snap off ... like someone else, in here, did. That would have spoiled the new clutch experience in a big way.

 

OK, put in new barnett clutch, old springs. Slipping is gone. Will get an answer from barnett next week on my oversized springs. I was able to re-use my clutch cover gasket, so that will save the new one i got for the next time when i replace the old springs with heavy duty srpings. I would like to thank Capy and Rick for so much help on this. You made this job a peice of cake to do.

Future topics for me:

1) weak front brake
2) color tuning
3) new fork seals

Thanks a million to all of you!

 

I'd be inclined to suspect that the PO probably put some kind of additive in the oil. Who knows why, but if it has the slipprey stuff in there, PTFE additives (probably the wrong acroynim) there was no way those clutches were going to grab.

Glad things are better now
NJOY

 

Right. You are lucky.
The Anti-friction additives ges absorbed into the Friction Pads and cause the Slipping ... which ...

Usually makes the Clutches slips so bad they burn-up the Driven Plates ... or at least "Blue" them and make them subject to warp.

 

Well its my suspiscion that is what was going on. I did want to mention one thing for everyone. Carb cleaner is the way to go on the sight glass. Just spray some in a glass, and get a handful of Q-tips and dip and swab the glass and the baffle. The thing was so dull with old oil stains that you could barely see your oil level. Now i see right through to the shiny baffle and its plain as day. Also, one more thing, i have read in here it is ok to not use the clutch when upshifting 3rd and higher, just blip the throttle real quick. I have been doing this off and on anyway, just wanted to make sure i wasnt causing damage. thanks

 

It is NOT OK to shift without using the Clutch.

That's the fastest way to chipping a dog and needing to replace a gear.

These bikes aren't Automatics.
They rely on disengaging the load before shifting UP of DOWN>