Can I just leave the butterflies alone?

I've got my carbs stripped down to nothing except for the butterflies. Planning to Berryman Chem-dip the bodies, but after reading the risk of stripping the screws and holes, I'm really resisting touching the butterflies. They are functioning well and seem like they don't need to be cleaned. I'm wondering if it would really be so bad to soak the carbs with the butterflies in there. I know it's sacrilegious, but I already know where I'm going when my motor kicks it.

Anyone done this? Would I be better off just not soaking the carbs and just cleaning all of the components and bodies with carb cleaner? Thanks for your thoughts and wisdom.

 

Here's a thought (wisdom part is subjective):
If you soak the carbs in Berryman's you will most likely completely destroy the 36 year old rubber throttle (butterfly) shaft seals.
You could spray them and not soak them - however your seals on the shafts are still 36 years old.

Do you have Mikuni of Hitachi carbs?
The key (with Hitachi) to not stripping things - use a JIS screwdriver - those are NOT Phillips head screws.

 

Spend the small amount of money to get the correct screwdrivers and removing the butterfly screws will be a piece of cake. Replace the throttle shaft seals and never worry about it again.

 

You are this far into it....replace the seals after dipping carb body..this IS the church of clean. My seals looked fine but 2 of them were rock hard....soaking without removing shafts and the seals will completely destroy seals. Spray cleaner will NOT get into small passages if the carb. When I did my cars I put new scres in butterfly plate anyway replaced with phillips metric.

 

Hitachi screws come out easily. The MIKUNI ones are the tricky ones..... Lightly file the back of the screw to remove the 'peen'. THEN use JIS screwdriver to remove.

 

Thanks guys. I decided to give it a go and stop if things started to strip. The screws broke free easily and came right out. I have now cleaned every component on the carbs. Letting them dry and then comes rebuild/reassembly!

 

I've been slowly putting my carbs back together. So busy with work and the holidays... I was really hoping to have this all done by the new year. Unfortunately, I am now having butterfly issues. I slid the first butterfly in and it just seemed like a super tight fit. It was difficult to get it positioned for the screws to go in and when I attempted, I ruined the threads on one of the screws.

Does Chacal have replacement screws?

Now, I did manage to get two screws in this butterfly, but now as I tighten the nut on the shaft, the butterfly doesn't rotate smoothly. I must be doing something wrong... I reassembled as carefully as I could.

Now wishing I had just left the butterflies alone and skipped the chem dip. Please help me out of this jam guys!

Edit: The second butterfly plate went right in! What is going on with the first one? It's like the plate is too big for the bore or the gap in the shaft. So strange...

 

Do you happen to remember what size the metric screws you used as replacements for the butterfly plates were?

 

Len does c array replacement screws, and I would recommend getting the ones with the stainless steel ones with the Allen drive. If you are re-using your originals, make sure that you lightly file the tip of the screw so that you remove any remaking 'lip' from the peen. Otherwise you're going to either not get it to go in, or you' real going to end up probably cross-threading the screw and it won't go all the way in.

Next question; butterfly fitment issue--

If you didn't keep track of which butterfly went with which carb, you'll have to either 'mix and match' til you get the right combination again, OR use a fine file and carefully 'adjust' the edge of the butterfl til it does fit. BUT BEFORE YOU DO THAT - are you talking about cyl 2 or 3? If so, you may need to simply loosen the nut/washer on the end of the shaft, then install the butterfly, then re-tighten the nut/washer. Make sure you don't over-tighten things

 

I took the old screws and shaft to Ace Hardware and matched screws up out of their metric screw bin . They had a nice selection and the ones I bought were stainless , I also put Allen bolts for the float bowls ...think I spent like 25 $ in hardware . But I splurged and also bought from xj4ever the allen float bowl drain screws ..Cool factor!!

 

The drain screws are a good investment. I bought my XJ in 1985, starting stripping the drain bowl screws around 1990. Finally removed them and replaced with XJ4ever's hex drain screws a few years ago. Now I merrily drain my bowls.

 

I'm pretty certain the butterflies didn't get mixed up, but if it's not normal for them to fit too tight going back in, then I must have. I'll try carefully swapping them out tomorrow and see if I can make it work. I am talking about Carb 2/3. I tried loosening and tightening the bolt, before and after installing the butterfly, but no luck. It's just way too tight. Very weird, but I'm sure I'll get it figured out! Thanks for the ideas!

 

Or maybe you have the correct butterfly for the correct carb body, but it is oriented "upside down" or "inside out".......it's always been my observation/suspicion that the butterfly valves were specifically fitted to each carb body manually, and thus proper orientation is critical.

When we take a carb apart, we always scribe the carb body number (1,2, 3, or 4) on the "outer" face of the valve (before we take it out!) and with the body number ABOVE the throttle shaft, so we know:

- which carb body the valve goes into
- which "face" of the valve is "out"
- which direction is "up"

 

I keep all four carbs separate even when torn all the way down.

I've never had to mark the butterflies--

For hitachi...the face that mates to the shaft always has had either a faint line or rust stain that gives away which side goes against the shaft. When that side is oriented correctly, the butterfly can only fit in one way... no need to mark it.

For mikuni... same thing only easier--- the butterfly has a little stamping on the visible face when installed, and again, the butterfly can only fit one direction... hint-- the stamping in at the bottom... underneath the shaft when in the correct position

 

Doing my carb rebuild as well. Butterfly on one carb is alittle chewed up from someone else attempting. Maybe to try to get it out. And also one screw is stripped. Whats the best way about getting this out.
Im down to just pulling the butterflys. I have the proper jis screwdriver. But stuck cause of stripped head.

 

Drill it and use an easy-out

 

Dave wins the Xmas carb quiz!
Thanks for sharing, sir! You are indeed a wizard! Three exclamation points! Four! Aaaack!

 

Hi Chacal,

I did engrave the number and orientation, but I think I had a washer out of place. I reassembled it using your part list in order for each carb and then got the butterfly set in place before tightening down the plate screws. Thanks for everything. Need to order at least one butterfly screw from you.

I noticed that and have been using the stamps more than my engravings. Works well.

Good luck man! Hopefully we can celebrate clean and assembled carbs soon!

 

Now I'm stuck on the throttle shaft spring orientation for Carb 2. Does anyone have a picture or diagram of how the spring is supposed to be set? It's one thing I didn't take a picture of and can't seem to find any info on. It must be so intuitive on I could get stuck on it! These things are very close to being assembled! Happy New Year everyone!

 

I'll take a pic for ya