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Crazy Gas Saving Ideas?

Discussion in 'Hangout Lounge' started by ArizonaSteve, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    I've seen a lot of crazy ideas to get better mileage and save gas like putting magnets on the fuel line and using water injection but I just tried mixing Acetone with the gas and that actually seemed to work, at least a little. On this video the guy claims he got the mileage of his car from 17 MPG up to 24 MPG by just doing tune up's, etc, but then he added 2 oz. of acetone to the tank and it went from 24 to 34 MPG! Since that's easy to try and acetone is cheap I decided to give it a try. I got 16 oz. of acetone at Walmart and poured 1oz. in the tank of my XS1100 with 3 gal. of gas when I got a fill up. Before, I was getting exactly 100 miles to 3 gal. of gas for a mileage of 33 1/3 MPG (yeah I know it's running a bit too rich). With the acetone in the tank I got 115 miles to 3 gal. for a mileage of 38 MPG so it does work a little bit or maybe they just reformulated the fuel for winter and I got a different mixture that time, who knows. Anyway it didn't seem to cause any problems except the exhaust smells weird.
    www.metacafe.com/watch/524517/double_yo ... ileage_2x/
     
  2. PSteele

    PSteele Member

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    There is a question for the chemists in XJB - what are the emissions consequences? I mean it's not like bikes are regulated in any major way, but just how mean (or not) is acetone as a fuel? What sort of energy level does acetone contain compared to gasoline, alcohol, etc? Anyone want to take a crack at those questions?
     
  3. schmuckaholic

    schmuckaholic Well-Known Member

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    I've heard of this; I think there was an issue with whether it was cost effective or not; if not that, then it was eating up engine seals or somesuch.

    Do yourself a favor and google for it.
     
  4. redneckzombi

    redneckzombi Member

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    Acetone will annihilate anything plastic or rubber it comes into contact with, won't it? I would imagine it wouldn't be good at all for your fuel lines, fuel filter, etc.
     
  5. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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  6. redneckzombi

    redneckzombi Member

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    Aah, I didn't realize you were talking an ounce in the whole tank. Probably dilute enough it wouldn't make much of a difference. I'm not a big fan of "probably" though, so I'd want to do a lot of research before I tried it myself personally.
     
  7. jdpesz

    jdpesz Member

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    I had a really great gas saving idea about this time last year.


    I bought a motorcycle! :mrgreen:
     
  8. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    Well I'm not trying to save gas so much as get longer range from the 3.5 gal. tank on the 1100. Here everywhere I want to go is always 50 miles away which means I have to start with a full tank or gas up before I leave or I won't make it back and I don't want to get stranded in the desert. Before I had to go on reserve at 100 miles and start looking for a gas station which was a problem when there were none around. If I could get the range up to 130 or 140 miles that would be a much better safety margin.
     
  9. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    This is another thing I definitely ain't doin'!
     
  10. RcPriest

    RcPriest Member

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    was just shot down on mythbusters. aceatone, hydrogen generator and the magnets all shot down!!
     
  11. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    Yes but why would you believe myth busters anymore than anyone else?
    Did they even try it? I don't think they know what the hell they are talking about most of the time.
    Here's a guy who claims that acetone works and doesn't hurt anything.
    It sure sounds reasonable the way he explains it.
    www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/ ... 9_Acetone/
     
  12. RcPriest

    RcPriest Member

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    No they only did a full hour show but did not do any testing.

    Yes they tested the ideas.

    you can do a search on bittorrent for "Exploding Pants" to watch the testing they did.
     
  13. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    I just read the definitive report.
    Acetone is harmful to rubber and plastic and really tastes bad; too!

    It was right there in black and white.

    www.mess_up_yourcarbs_inabigway.com
     
  14. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    I got a 15% improvement twice in a row, 115 miles to reserve instead of only 100 miles, by adding 1oz. of acetone to 3 gal. of gas but on the third tank full I only added 1/2 oz. to see what would happen and I just 110 miles for only a 10% improvement. It seems that 1/2 oz. isn't enough so I'm going back to 1 oz.
     
  15. schmuckaholic

    schmuckaholic Well-Known Member

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    I seem to remember some country in Asia banning acetone in its gas; a quick goole search reveals it was Vietnam, with one or two other nearby countries close behind. Seems they had a rash of motorcycle breakdowns...

    You sure you wanna do this?

    Let's see. 0.5 ounces yields a ten percent improvement. Doubling that should yield another ten percent, right? No? Only five? Curious. By that reasoning, then, if you go to two ounces, you'll only see a 17.5 percent improvement. Four ounces will yield 18.75, and so on... diminishing returns rears its ugly head.

    Next question: how much does acetone cost compared to gasoline? Is it cost effective? Will it be cost effective if the seals start eroding?
     
  16. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    It only costs about $1.99 for 16 ounces which is enough for quite a bit of driving. If one ounce saves almost 1/2 gallon of gas then I'll get a savings of almost 8 gallons from one 16 oz. bottle and with gas at $2.65 that's a savings of around $20 per bottle minus $1.99 for a net saving of $18.00 so I think it's cost effective. Adding more doesn't make for more savings though, you have to put in just the right amount as shown in the chart on this page:
    www.lubedev.com/smartgas/additive.htm
     
  17. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Speaking as the Technical Writer:

    I wouldn't advise Members to introduce Acetone into the Fuel System of your XJ-Bike to experiment in an increase of Fuel Economy. The very preliminary search for information indicates: "Acetone may be very harmful to Non-metallic parts within the Carbs"

    Not until I have consulted with EXPERTS on the matter an I going to endorse using Acetone in the Fuel Supply.

    Not endorsed by XJ-Bikes.com.
    You do so at your own risk!


    Personally:

    The Carbs are Constant Velocity Carbs. They are not connected to any device ... such as an Oxygen Sensor ... to detect the presence of any fluid additive or adjust for an additives presence in any way.

    Only the Metered Output of the various Jets control the amount of Fuel drawn into the engine.

    Not until I have consulted with EXPERTS on the matter an I going to endorse using Acetone in the Fuel Supply.

    Then, I probably still won't!
     
  18. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    Rick, I didn't advise anyone to try it either but don't you think gasoline would be more harmful to the Non-metallic parts within the Carbs than an ounce of additive? Also, I've heard of people putting a whole 16 oz. can of carb cleaner in there with no lasting harmful effects so I think you advice is just plain silly. BTW, when did you start doing public relations work for big oil spreading disinformation?
     
  19. schmuckaholic

    schmuckaholic Well-Known Member

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    ...$16 a gallon. (Okay, $15.92.) That's a little over five times what the fuel you're mixing it in with costs.

    Let's see... at $3.00 per gallon, gasoline costs 2.3 cents per ounce. At $2 a pint, acetone costs 12.5 cents per ounce. I'll crunch some more numbers when I get home, but something tells me that someone didn't think their cunning plan all the way through.

    BTW, you might want to lay off the ad hominem attacks just because he doesn't buy into your pet conspiracy theory.
     
  20. Ass.Fault

    Ass.Fault Active Member

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    I say let him do his own thing.
    Experiment for a few months, like 60 or so tanks. lol
    and see what he says then. Kinda like a class project.
    I personally think the damage done might be severe.
    But if he is willing to be a test subject let him.
    Its his right(and duty) as an american to experiment.

    BTW can I have the exhaust from the "parts bike" after the experiment is done?
     
  21. stereomind

    stereomind Active Member

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    When I heard about the acetone thing a few months ago, I tried it in my fuel-injected crown vic... I noticed slightly better power band, but not much in the mileage department.

    I can imagine that acetone can help an older car with a lot of gunk in the fuel system, as well as increase performance since its octane rating is very high.

    I also read about Vietnam banning acetone in fuel because of the massive amount of motorcycle breakdowns that started happening around the time acetone was introduced as an additive.

    If you google this subject, you'll find that there are a lot of strongly opposing views on the subject. Until someone 100% proves or disproves acetone benefits, I will not let a drop of the stuff near my bikes.
     
  22. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    OK ... there's stuff all over Google and the Internet about this Acetone situation.

    Most of it are articles with the "Astounding Results" mentioned.

    There are also the associated articles commenting on its dangers.

    Since rubber O-rings and Synthetic Materials are essential components to the Float Valves and actual Float's, themselves, I'm not going to recommend using Acetone in your XJ-Bike.

    Please take time to do your own research.
    The Jury is still out deliberating the Acetone issue.

    But, as a Member of the Jury deliberating the fate of Acetone for use in XJ-Bikes ... I don't have enough information to know how harmful it might be to parts within the Fuel Delivery system ... therefore, my present recommendnation is:

    Acetone is NOT recommended due to the possibility it might do some harm to Floats, O-rings and seals.
     
  23. schmidtap

    schmidtap Member

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    I have the best way of incressing MPG, all you have to do is send 4 easy payments of 29.95............ oh heck I'll just tell ya......... as we say in the military use your LPC's or Leather Personnel Carriers aka Walk...., from everything that i've looked into, the only true way to save is keep the engine properly maintained, i've looked into a few of the options out there for my F150, and of course you search the sites selling said items, there the best thing out there. I my self will only putting 2 things in my tank...... Fuel and Seafoam
     
  24. TIMEtoRIDE

    TIMEtoRIDE Active Member

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    my calculations based on 4,000 miles/year and 40 MPG are a savings of $30, or 3/4 CENT per mile. The worry factor is greater than that.
    For longer range TUNE that 1100, buy the touring tank, paint it black.
    or hide a tank in the swingarm/toolbox area.
     
  25. TIMEtoRIDE

    TIMEtoRIDE Active Member

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    So by now ArizonaSteve has over a month of Acetone experience. We would like an update. I won't try it because I have a coated tank and I'd hate to have all that GLOP come loose on me in January and plug my carbs. Are you still getting a 15 % improvement?
     
  26. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    Well, I cleaned and synced the carbs, washed and re-oiled the filters and cleaned the plugs. This time I got about 43.5 MPG on plain gas, 135 miles on 3.1 gal. It seems that maintenance is more important than fuel additives but I'm going to try the acetone again on the next tank and see how much higher than 43 I can get it to go.
     
  27. ryan_975

    ryan_975 Member

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    Interesting thread we got here. I took the liberty of doing some calculations fo ya'll and here's the results:

    Code:
    Acetone = $0.1243 per oz ($15.91 per gal)
    Gasoline = $0.234 per oz ($3.00 per gal)
    
    Code:
    Without Additive
    -------------------------- 
    Gasoline 448.0000 oz = $10.4832
    Acetone  0.0000 oz = $0.000
    
    Total 448.0000 oz = $10.4832
    Total cost per oz = $0.0234
    
    Range = 100.0000 miles
    Unit Range = 4.4800 oz per mile
    Unit Cost = $0.1048 per mile
    
    
    Cost after 1,000 miles of travel = $104.80
    
    Code:
    With Additive
    ---------------------------
    Gasoline 448.0000 oz = $10.4832
    Acetone  2.0000 oz = $0.2486
    
    Total 450.0000 oz = $10.7318
    Total cost per oz = $0.0223
    
    Range = 115 miles
    Unit range = 3.9130 oz per mile
    Unit Cost = $0.0872 per mile
    
    Cost after 1,000 miles of travel  = $87.20
    
    Note that this is assuming verified consistant results and doesn't take into account fuel formula changes or atmospheric conditions.
     
  28. XJ600S

    XJ600S Member

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    I'd say the only way I might buy into this idea, is by doing hundreds of tests. If you get an improvement in mpg on 1 tank, whats to say that wasn't due to a lighter throttle grip while riding?

    I consistently log my gas mileage (and other variables) into an excel file for both my truck and xj. It shows me the true mileage after many many tanks.

    And with the xj, I can notice a big difference in mileage with how I drive it. If I ride more aggressively, its lower, about 45mpg. But if I ride conservatively and don't accelerate like I'm driving a Ferrari, it tops out around 55mpg. Granted that is still only over 5 tanks, its still better than saying that since you got an increase in mileage on 1 test, that you just proved the acetone theory correct.

    Then again, this could just be the experimental physicist in me coming out. Or it could be the experimental skepticism coming out...who knows!
     
  29. XJJeff

    XJJeff Member

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    I'm no rocket scientist but couldn't you just put a gas and acetone mixture in a jar with a rubber o-ring in it and let it sit and see what happens?
     
  30. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    Nothing will happen.
     
  31. schmidtap

    schmidtap Member

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    With XJ600S last comment, I do the same thing, I keep track of every fill up, I imput everything in an Excel spreedsheet and it tells me the MPG on that tank, and an Overal for that particular page. If anyone is interested, I can save a blank one and offer it. Oh I also have in the same file, a Maintance Record Sheet that you can use to track all work done... kinda a good selling point when the time comes
     
  32. XJ600S

    XJ600S Member

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    [thread_hijack]

    haha. I have a feeling that we are using the same base spreadsheet. Mine has the maintenance records page as well. Although, I have altered mine to be more useful (my truck is lifted, so I have adjusted it for the oversized tires, to change from the odo reading to the actual mileage, etc).

    It also allows you to track the cost of gas, but the main aspect of it, is that it shows major fluctuations in mpg. So if you suddenly have a drop in mpg, and you know you weren't driving like a maniac, then its possible something is up and it tips you off. Then you can record in the maintenance section what was wrong, and the next time it happens, you'll have a record of what it could be.

    I agree about giving it to anyone that wants a copy of it, just send me a pm and i'll email it to you.

    [/thread_hijack]
     
  33. TECHLINETOM

    TECHLINETOM Member

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  34. TECHLINETOM

    TECHLINETOM Member

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    I must have done something wrong on the last post.

    What I would like to know is where can I get a touring tank for my 82 XJ1100?

    Also does anyone know if a tank from an XS1100 would fit?

    Thanx
     
  35. TIMEtoRIDE

    TIMEtoRIDE Active Member

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    by touring tank, i did mean the XS 11 as the touring version of the XJ 11.
    I was just at Jacks salvage - Sanford, and saw BMW tanks they are big.
    don't expect an easy bolt-on.

    I'm ready to try Acetone in the Silver Wing for a 2 tank test back-to-back.
    1/3 OZ per gallon. It gets 50 MPG at 60 MPH and has "cruise control".

    **edited , changed 1 OZ to 1/3 after further research**
     
  36. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    >Also does anyone know if a tank from an XS1100 would fit?
    The big squareish tank on the standard XS1100 will interchange with the tear drop shape tank on the XS1100 Special. It might fit the XJ too but you'd have to try it.
     
  37. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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  38. Gbambeck1

    Gbambeck1 Member

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    that was nifty...
     
  39. xjyamaha

    xjyamaha Member

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    jeez, i got 90 miles out of my last tank of gas in my 650. I'm thinking it's not running to snuff, it's a 2.9 gallon tank....
     
  40. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    If you spent any time going over 30 MPH ... you're fine!
     
  41. xjyamaha

    xjyamaha Member

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    well i guess it's normal then, but 30 mpg? Mostly highway riding, 50-60 mph. That seems low for a 650, i know guys getting 45 mpg out of 750 honda's
     
  42. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    What does the Plug Read tell you???

    Light or Dark?
     
  43. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    45mpg is about what I get. Maybe a bit less on a long run at 70mph. Just under 40 if I'm misbehavin'.
     
  44. dburnettesr

    dburnettesr Member

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    xjyamaha,,,, 30mpg seams low if your not riding hard....

    I've got a crazy idea sort of,,,,not really to me anyway. got it from some past experiences with carbs. i believe most carbs try to do the same basic things just in different ways an some are limited in there range of adjustability,,,,an this also goes to the importance of the emulsion tube an the air passages...but I once spent lots of money on plugs an jets trying to cure a fowling problem,,,,main jets so lean I would not dare hold the throttle down,,,,,pilot jet so lean it took forever for the rpms to come down,,,,,thought I had it fixed more than once,,,,lots an lots of plugs,,,,lots an lots of jets,,,,hour down the trail at just part throttle fowled plug,,,,after the hundredth time taking this carb down I got a black ball of crap out of the air passage for the emulsion tube,,,bang fixed it,,,,,now the light bulb is getting brighter,,,the pilot an the main jets do not have as great effect as the holes in the emulsion tube do at low loads on the motor,,,I would always fowl the plug when just cruising,,,
    I would not try this on my last emulsion tube an would only go in .001's but more air should get your mpg up with out changing your stock jetting

    2nd an probable more sane idea is to make sure your emulsion tubes are at least getting all the air they where designed to get in the first place,,,make sure the air passage for the emulsion tube is clear!!!!!!poor mpg while cruising points me at the emulsion tube..not the jetting.

    short runs you could probable get away with being to lean,,,long hauls I fear for the motor,,,,,I'm in the high 40's consistently and at speeds above 70 but I'm very lean an will be putting larger main jets in...

    emulsion tubes=very important
     
  45. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    The Emulsion Tubes can be Operating Room Clean and STILL be problematic if the Sliding Pistons are not fully opening or closing as they should.

    20 Years of Alum-oxidation is likely to have had an effect on the Bores.
    I think you should conduct a "Clunk-Test" and see if the Pistons are sticking.

    If they are NOT Closing all the way under Closed Throttle ... Main Jet Fuel will sneak-up into the Combustion Chambers and make the Mixture TOO RICH for slow-speed and coasting.

    You should search: Clunk Test inn the archives and refinish the Bores and Polish them for getting the most out of the Carbs.
     
  46. TIMEtoRIDE

    TIMEtoRIDE Active Member

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    I just dove into the "acetone pool" . . . first tank is at 1 OZ per gallon.
    this is the clean-out and prep run.
    did some research, people are running 1:640 ratio - - 1 OZ per 5 Gal.
    and no more than 1:320 or the improvement drops off.

    '82 Silver Wing is the guinea pig. I got spare carbs.

    $3.74 per gallon !
     
  47. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    I thought we had put this Thread to rest.

    I checked with a Veteran YAMAHA Technician regarding acetone.
    The addition of acetone to the Fuel is not recommended.

    The Official stance regarding acetone is that it is NOT Recommended.
    This Site Does Not recommend adding acetone to the Fuel for any reason.

    You do so at your own risk!
     
  48. ArizonaSteve

    ArizonaSteve Member

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    Rick, I suppose they aren't allow to recommend anything besides pure gasoline but what does he think of the government forcing them to put in ethanol that's a lot worse?
     
  49. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    every thing i've done for the last 35 years has been at my own risk, most of it's been fun :)
     
  50. bstig60

    bstig60 Member

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    Location:
    Sharpes, Florida
    Cheap Gas! Just filled up for $4.19
     

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