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Don't be the guy who did this

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by Polock, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    before you do something your not sure of, ask yourself "if this goes wrong can i fix it" if the answer isn't yes
    just quit, get help
     
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  2. tabaka45

    tabaka45 Well-Known Member

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    Not something to try at home. I was afraid there would not be enough metal to use even the smaller insert.
     
  3. Ryengoth

    Ryengoth Active Member

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    Seeing Adam do those jobs really makes me want a mill with 3-axis dro. :( I could pick up a Tormach 1100 from a guy if I had 10 large... and potentially some kind of believable explanation for the wife.
     
  4. jayrodoh

    jayrodoh YimYam

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    Sweet vid, I watched the whole thing which is rare on YT.
     
  5. Ryengoth

    Ryengoth Active Member

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    Abom79 and letsdig18 (I'm in NC too) are two channels I follow. I love watching CNC work but manual machining involves many skills and I've picked up a lot of fab tips watching.
     
  6. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    Never seen that type of repair done before. A bit of preparation work is required before fitting the new thread insert.
     
  7. Ryengoth

    Ryengoth Active Member

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    The locking inserts are OK as long as there is physical retention on the keys on both ends and it never needs replacing. I still prefer to use a solid insert with permanent threadlocker. Never had a failure from one and the insert can be replaced easily if it does happen to loosen or strip. I don't see how those key locking inserts can be repaired easily. Looks like you would need to drill the insert and keys out to put a larger one in.
     
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  8. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    Yes the locking tabs must jam the insert in place and the inserts you refer too will have more surface area to secure the insert with threadlocker and it can be replaced easily. A much better solution if the thread is damaged again. Never have done one of these I assume they can be bought in a kit with the correct size tap or die inserts and drills? It would be a good skill to have.
     
  9. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    You can just drill in a tad past the minor thread diameter to release/bend the keys and spin the insert back out with their tool. The wall thickness allows for that.
     
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  10. Ryengoth

    Ryengoth Active Member

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    Yes, you can get thread repair kits for a bunch of different styles of inserts. Everyone has their own preference to what "works". Honestly, each style has pros and cons to a specific job based on damage type, load, torque and function.
     
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  11. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    ...and price. If I can get away with a larger hole and fastener, I will.
     
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  12. Ryengoth

    Ryengoth Active Member

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    Parent metal is always preferable. So is weld fill, drill and tap.
     
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  13. Franz

    Franz Well-Known Member

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    Yes l have seen engineers doing this online with damaged valve seats caused by broken timing belts. They weld it up skim the head and recut valve seats etc.
     
  14. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    once that guy paid the bike shop and the machine shop, i'm pretty sure he won't mess another one up for a long time :)
     
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  15. XJ75082

    XJ75082 Member

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    Great video.

    There are several different ways to remove a broken bolt, stripped/broken stud, stripped nut. Don't assume drilling is always the only option. Sometimes it is the only option. Word of advise: If engine oil touches it; remove it then set up to drill. Shavings in the engine is never a good thing.

    I've used a few different methods, some worked sometimes. Sometimes they wouldn't.
    Here are a few methods i have used.
    Welding a nut onto a broken bolt/stud.
    Double nut a stud.
    Vise grips
    Slotting the broken bolt/stud to use a straight screwdriver.
    E z outs.
    Sock it out(my opinion; better than e z outs)

    If you're not familiar with most of these methods. Please dont attempt them. Its far cheaper to let someone familiar with multiple processes of extracting a bolt, stud or nut than it is to have someone go behind someone else and fix a mistake.
     
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  16. Ryengoth

    Ryengoth Active Member

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    Most engines have pressed in seats, so they cut them out and press in new ones. All steel heads
    I've TIG welded a bolt/screw onto a bolt, TIG welded stacked beads onto screw heads and also used a dent gun and slide hammer to help pull seized pins.
    Broken taps are a HUGE PITA to fix and usually requires metal arc erosion to cut it out so never force a tap beyond the spring of the tap wrench.
    Left-hand drill bits work much better than ez outs and you can regrind them. The biggest complaint I have with ez outs is that the fluted style works the best but they also lose their bite after a couple heavy uses and you can't sharpen them. I've never had any success with the spiral ones.
     
  17. KrS14

    KrS14 Active Member

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    That was really interesting to watch!!
     
  18. XJ75082

    XJ75082 Member

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    Why i prefer the sock it outs over e z outs. Ive had far better results.
     
  19. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Left
    Twist
    Drill.
     
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  20. XJ75082

    XJ75082 Member

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    Unless the break is caused by seizing.
    Access is also another issue. The majority of bolts on bikes are accessible. Very few arent.
     
  21. XJ75082

    XJ75082 Member

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    This brings up another topic. Which should be considered by all. The factory across all brands do not use this on their bolts & nuts. For the simple fact; they never expected the engines to be taken apart.

    Anti-seize.

    Some will speak against using it in any assembly. I have used it and has worked very well.
    Especially when 2 dissimilar metals contact each other. For low heat levels, silver or nickle-coat antiseize is recommended.
    On the exhaust side, copper-coat is recommended. A thin layer is all thats needed. On torqued applications, a certain percentage should be added to dry torque values. I think its 3%(not 100% sure) using anti seize will prevent future broken bolts, studs, galled nuts.
     
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  22. Ryengoth

    Ryengoth Active Member

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  23. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    A good thread locking compound should be used in most places. It serves double-duty by also filling in the air-gap between the threads.
     
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  24. Ryengoth

    Ryengoth Active Member

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    I use a little copper on most of the stuff I plan on removing over and over like valve cover screws, etc. As long as it's not stainless, it'll cause galvanic issues. If the metal is unspecified, and it's fairly cheap, it's typically a combination of copper, aluminum and nickle.
     
  25. Ryengoth

    Ryengoth Active Member

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    I would NEVER use threadlocker on exhaust components or on torque-to-yield situations. You're asking for problems.
     
  26. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    That's exactly why I said most, instead of all. Manufacturers provide detailed information about the where, when, and how to use their products, however...men being what we are...;):p
     
  27. Ryengoth

    Ryengoth Active Member

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    That said experience tends to override manufacturer guidelines, especially being men. You're not supposed to use zip ties for plastic welding as nylon fume is toxic. But, hey it's cheap and works better than melt rods. Let's not go off on that tangent though.
     
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