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Simmy's Naked Turbo Project

Discussion in 'XJ Modifications' started by Simmy, Feb 25, 2017.

  1. Timbox

    Timbox Well-Known Member

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    I bet there were some choice words being said putting them in like that. Nice paint though...and still that way.
     
  2. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    I’ve had the carbs in and out countless times on my FZ and other Seca and just muscle them in by hand. Maybe the Turbo has stiffer rubbers to handle the pressure? Every choice word I have is currently needed for my investment portfolio. This keeps my mind off of that.
     
  3. ManBot13

    ManBot13 Well-Known Member

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    I put my turbo carbs on by seating one side, clamping, then seating the other. That way the first one doesn’t pop out.

    It is a huge pain and much harder that the 750 Seca I had. I give up trying to seat them four at once. I can’t count the number of times I almost pushed the bike off the center stand trying to get them on.
     
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  4. 50gary

    50gary Active Member

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    Easy.
    Cheers, 50gary
     
  5. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    I took the fuel check valve apart to redo the 2 o-rings.
    The little one was brittle and probably wouldn't hold back gas for long.
    This bike does not have a vacuum diaphragm like the normal XJ's so relies on this to stop the gas when parked.
    I'm more worried about the fuel pressure regulator but not sure they even come apart.
    fuel check valve.jpg
     
  6. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    the Turbo manual shows the wiring loom hanging alongside the bike.
    At first I was worried it might not fit under the RJ sidecover but it does.
    I made a slight detour inside the frame since the RJ sidecover tab is where the Turbo puts the wire,
    there was no problem as there is lots of room here.
    wiring1.jpg
     
  7. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    Below shows the installation of the boost controller.
    This is the cleanest routing but I thought about plugging the outlet on the turbo and getting the pressure signal from a tee between the surge tank and the fuel pressure regulator to trigger the waste gate. It probably makes no difference but the pressure at the surge tank might lag the pressure at the turbo.
    I'm thinking it won't matter since I plan to adjust the controller by measuring the boost pressure up at the surge tank anyway.
    I put a dedicated line between the boost pressure sensor and the nipple present on carb #2. I think it's important not to have any tees in this line.
    BoostValve.jpg
     
  8. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    I copied this below from Walbro's website.
    It looks like model 395 is closest to the specs needed for a Seca Turbo with a little more boost than stock (OEM pump is 14 psi).
    Ebay is full of GSL392 Chinese knock-offs at less than 1/2 the price of a genuine Walbro 392.
    Does anyone foresee problems with a fuel pump capable of pressures way in excess of what is needed?
    395's are not common but are available from Walbro.

    CHOOSE FROM FIVE GSL INLINE PUMP MODELS:
    Part # Rated Flow* Typical PSI Max PSI Max HP (NA)* Max HP (Boosted)* Applications/Notes
    GSL392 255 LPH 43.5 psi 87 psi 670 HP 540 HP Great choice for Carb to EFI conversion (Including GM LSx)
    GSL394 190 LPH 43.5 psi 87 psi 500 HP 400 HP Great choice for Carb to EFI conversion (Including GM LSx)
    GSL391 190 LPH 43.5 psi 50 psi 500 HP 400 HP
    GSL393 155 LPH 43.5 psi 50 psi 405 HP 330 HP
    GSL395 130 LPH 15 psi 20 psi 340 HP 280 HP Low Pressure: GM TBI Engines, Carbureted engines w/return-style regulator
    *at typical PSI. Pressure is set by the regulator--not the pump. Flow will decrease somewhat as flow increases. See chart provided for each pump.
     
  9. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    the current draw of the 392 is about 6A at 10 psi
    the current draw of the 395 is only 2A.
    So there's my answer, I think I'll order the 395 and avoid the Chinese s#!+
     
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  10. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    I went ahead and ordered the Walbro 395 fuel pump, with 15 psi nominal, 20 psi maximum and similar current draw to the OEM pump it seems like the best fit.
    I'm looking for any recommendations for cheap pressure gauges. I say cheap because I don't plan to keep them on the bike.
    They would only be for set up purposes.
    I plan to set up a gauge between the boost controller and the turbo to accurately set the pressure for the wastegate.
    At the same time I'd like another gauge up at the surge tank to find out when the BOV pops.
    Ideally it would stay at the peak pressure observed. Anyone have any experience with this?
     
  11. ManBot13

    ManBot13 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure how much difference there will between the surge tank and waste gate. I have them plumbed to the same line. Something else I've noticed is that there is a bit of staging, you won't see the waste gate open immediately, and the pressure will rise over the wastegate setpoint before falling and settling on the pressure you want. This is due to inertia in the compressor compressing some air before exhaust bypassing the turbo slows it down.

    The blow off valve isn't there to regulate boost, it's there for when the throttle bodies slam closed and cause a pressure wave back into the surge tank. If you are interested in raising the boost pressure, I'd just do the calculation on the spring preload that is set up stock, and increasing that to get the blow off pressure you want. It'll probably be close enough.

    A lot of the pressures in the surge tank are not going to be steady state, they will be very dynamic. You won't be able to measure or set them up without very sensitive equipment. Cheap gauges are great for knowing the steady state running condition if anything changes. I don't think there will be any "cheap" ones that will hold peak pressure. Don't get anything is a negative range (you aren't going to measure vacuum at the surge tank) and get one that's in the turbo operating range (0-15psi vs 0-30, etc). Finally, a lot of movement will wear out the mechanism, so oil filled gauges are best if you decide you like to watch the needle move.
     
  12. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply ManBot. I did slip a washer behind the spring so the BOV will hold more than stock. I have another washer I can measure the thickness, I apologize, I know you explained this to me before but I didn't calculate anything. I'm thinking this old spring has been under preload for 40 years, who knows what its rate is now. I was told you want the BOV able to take 2 psi more pressure than the wastegate, just so you're not mistakenly popping the BOV first.
    Do you know what the stock spring holds to?

    OK I'll give up on the idea of monitoring the surge tank.
    Since the fuel pressure regulator keeps fuel 2.8 psi above the boost pressure at the carbs, would it be any value trying to measure the fuel pressure?
    I want to be able to adjust the boost controller without popping the BOV first.
    I'm going to order this cheap gauge. I know you said not to get a negative reading gauge but this one is right in the +30 psi range.
    As I said, it will be just for the set up.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-52mm-Aut...0-PSI-Meter-W-Blue-LED-Backlight/293532710826
     
  13. ManBot13

    ManBot13 Well-Known Member

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    Haha, I thought I had answered this before somewhere ;). If you want to take the surge tank off, plug up the turbo and carb outlets, tape down the reed valves and pressurize until the BOV opens, that would be an "easy" static test. I'd use a bike pump so it's slow and won't hurt anything.

    For the gauge, an Auto Meter gauge like this would work well if you aren't trying to boost over 14 psi. The problem with vacuum/boost gauges is that there is quite a bit of "flutter" in the surge tank port as the boost starts to build, and the cheap ones will fatigue and set on the wrong "0" boost measurement. But that gauge is pretty cheap...

    Fuel pressure gauge was to alert me if the fuel pump or regulator ever stop working. Also functions as a very good indication that you forgot to open your petcock :D. They aren't cheap tho, you need a digital sensor since it's in the fuel stream.
     
  14. lostboy

    lostboy Well-Known Member

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    Well you extra time now. The 2019 Paris Rally just cancelled. So I can't wait till 2020 to see this bike.
     
  15. lostboy

    lostboy Well-Known Member

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    I got the year wrong 2020 is cancelled. Can't wait for 2021 rally. Been isolated too long. Send help.
     
  16. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    Yes very disappointed the rally is cancelled. This thing was not going to be ready this June anyway. Perhaps we’ll see the Carlisle swap meet in the fall. How’s your 2nd Seca coming?
     
  17. lostboy

    lostboy Well-Known Member

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    2nd Seca is done just needs a battery. I don't know what to do with it. It is nice to have a second bike for parts.
     
  18. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    I finished the mods to the wiring harness today.
    I salvaged the connector blocks from the RJ harness and bought new terminal ends so now the entire XJ650RJC headlight, tach, speedo and dash lights are plug'n'play.
    It's a good thing I'm using the monster 9" headlight from the RJ to hold whatever is still necessary.
    I added the 2nd diode block from the RJ just for the low oil level light as Jay and Rooster recommended, and using the RJ oil level switch.
    I've eliminated the emergency cut off switch, not really great since the fuel pump will continue to run after a crash now.
    I might be able to hide it in a level spot behind the steering stem, maybe later, the plug is still there.
    I'm still planning to band this mess up tighter and add tape anywhere vibration might rub on the wires.
    wires in headlight##.JPG
    wiring in headlight.JPG

    bank angle.JPG
     
  19. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    I received my new fuel pump. Good news it is smaller than the OEM so it will fit under the RJ tank.
    As I discovered earlier the LJ tank is concave in the area of the fuel pump.
    Now just a matter of hooking it up.
    fuel pump.JPG
     
  20. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    I had to order these on-line. All my local auto parts stores did not have anything to go from 6 mm to 5 mm.
    My boost controller has 1/4" (6mm) hose fittings and the turbo vac hose is all 5 mm nipples.

    s-l1600 (1).jpg
     

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