Yamaha -82 XJ650 Valve tool problem

Hi!

So this will be the fist post in this forum.
I bought a 1982 Yamaha XJ650 a week ago tomorrow. It have been sitting for several years so it needs som checking up. It is a project in it self so there will be some different thing to look at before it is ready to get out on the road.

Before I start the actual thread, I really must say that this forum and the info that can be found here is incredible! This is superb for a newbe like me!

To the post now.
The bike runs, but needs some choke and before I do any adjustments on the carbs will I need to check the valve measurements. And this is what I have done yesterday.
Again, the info here on the forum have given me good directions and I have managed to preform the measurements and also reading all the shims and then figured out what shims is needed for replacement.

My problem started with the valve cover bolts.
One of them was totally cracked where it was seated. The thread still holds the bolt and cover, but someone have put to much force on this bolt I think. Not sure what to do with this other than use the bolt, but with low force when installing. Any tips on this damaged thread?


Next problem was that the tool that I have purchased to use to remove the shims is this one:


But I did never get it to work.
The seat was never locked after installing it according to the very helpful guide here at the forum.
On the little "knob" at the bottom I could see that the pain have been shaved of so it felt like the seat when turning the engine slided on this surface.
Questions to the forum: The seat have a slot in it that is informed to be turned so that it is most upward so that the tool/screwdriver kan be used to pick up the shim. But is there two slots on the seat? And that the tool is supposed to be put in the opposite slot on the bottom side?

Is there more than one tool? Could I have got the wrong one?

The next problem was that when installing this tool, the bolt ripped the threads out in the first hole used. So I did not wanted to try more holes...
Will need a helicoil in this destroyed hole before putting the valvecover back on.

I ended up using a insulated cable instead that I put down in the cylinderchamber to hold the valve open so that I could get all the shims out and take notes.

I want to use this tool, but I´m afraid that I will destroy more threads in the process...
And maybe there is more threads already destroyed and this tool will rip them completely just when using the tool.
Any tips to make it work?

 

Yikes I haven't checked clearances on my bike yet but that was the plan once I get the brakes and some other things sorted out. Hopefully you get some responses as to why that might have happened. I was going to get the same tool also when the time came.

 

That is the correct tool (at least it looks correct to me). I guess there is always the possibility of a manufacturing defect on the tool or something.

My thoughts on the valve tool: It takes some practice and some patience. You kind of get a feel for how to position it. Even then, sometimes you will "miss" and not hold the bucket down - then you need to reposition and try again.

The other thing is that you need to be VERY VERY careful about not turning the cam into the tool.

 

Damaged cam cover cap. Better to replace it it is not a camshaft cap anyway, it only holds the cover. Don't take all shims out at once, turning the engine over without shims will damage the cam lobes. Get the stripped bolt hole repaired and don't overtighten the bolts holding the valve tool.

 

Not a big user of the "tool" myself. I like t use a insulated wire and then a sharp small screw driver to my shims.

As far is it not running very well, have you already gone thought the carbs?

 

I think that one is a clearance bearing and would require at a minimum a clearance measurement to replace it

https://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/xj-parts-catalog-section-e-engine.44640/

"HCP22924 Aftermarket camshaft journal NON-BEARING CAM CAP. On many engines, on the right side of the cam tunnel opening there is a non-bearing camshaft cap. Unlike all of the other cam caps, which actually hold the camshaft down to the head and actually have smooth bearing surfaces…… the only purpose for these non-bearing caps is to supply a threaded hole to accept the valvecover hold-down bolt. This same cap is used on both the intake and exhaust cams, and is on the right side of the cam tunnel opening. NOTE: on the left side of the cam tunnel opening, there is a very similar-looking cap (also with a valvecover bolt acceptance hole), but that cap is an actual bearing cap. This replacement non-bearing cap, although similar, cannot be used in place of that actual bearing cap......."

So you have already correctly speculated that the bolt for the cap was over torqued causing it to crack. In my mind there is no reason not to believe they were all treated that way, and aluminum threads have a way of just hanging on at times. When you installed the tool it was likely into weakened threads unless you think you over torqued it (7.2 ft lbs. is spec) or installed it and turned the engine forward, the latter of which can actually crack the head.

The tool has been mentioned quite a few times on here as not working and I think the fix for some of them is to enlarge the holes slightly.

 

The tool works, it's just tricky to use and/or understand how to use it. Big Fitz's how-to guide is correct, but it still takes a "feel" and the experience of doing it correctly at least one time to get the hang of it.

I used to employ a guy who was a retired heavy jet mechanic at Hartsfield for Delta. Asked him to do a shim replacement, gave him the tool and instructions. Half an hour later he came in and said "there's something wrong with the tool, it just doesn't work". Went out and showed him how to use it, had the first shim out in about 30 seconds, and it was all sunshine and unicorns from there.

 

Holy crap this forum works fast!!
Will try to answer all replies. Maybe some of the have the same answer.

I think that the ripped threads and cracked threadhole is from the same problem, previous owner have put to much force into the bolts.

I watched the guide and yes, I never turned the cam the wrong way, but also never got it to work so I used the "zip tie method" in the end, but with a insulated cable.

Have a possible solution for this thread, if needed. It still might work and holding the bolt, but will see what will be needed.
The stipped hole will get a helicoil so that will fix that thread. Will also inspect the other threaded holes also just to be sure if some of the others also will need new threads. Yes, no overtighten when using the tool is a must.

I used the insulated cable myself, it worked for me.
Have not checked the carbs yet. I have them on the bench beside mw ritght now and will do a check and a clean of them first.
I got the feel that I need to have the valves checked and adjusted before I do any adjustments on the carbs. Hopefully will the adjustment of the valves with the correct shims help, and then a adjutments and bench-cynked carbs with a colourtuning as a final step help with the running of the motor.

I will inspect all holes when I have the tool for the helicoil here at the garage. If needed I will repair the other threads also.
I do not think I used too much force when using the tool and did not turn the motor the wrong way into the tool. I think the threads was too damaged in the beginning. And after destroying he first hole, did not want to test on any other.
I read some more threads and yes, the opening of the hole on the tool seems to be a way to get it work better, but not sure if I will use that tool anymore when I got the other method working .

OK!
Good to know that the tool is the right one, and I need more practice. I might try it again, but are a little scared of testing it again and since the method with the cable worked well, I might stick to that method. I do not plan to have to check and change the shims that many times in te future.


A big thanks to all replies!
I will continue the checkup of the bike and will most certanly be here reading and asking more questions as I go along.
I´m waiting for the shims right now, will be changning then next week and then work on the carbs.

 

Second—— so tip for the damaged thread......
1. Get a replacement part, and the when you reinstall the valve cover, make sure you get a set of new rubber valve cover donuts.

 

The casting is cracked clear through. A Helicoil won't fix that problem. As soon as you go to drill the oversize hole for the Helicoil the rest of the casting will be cut off; no more hole. Replacement caps of that type are plentiful, and cheap. If you really want to save that particular cap it will have to be degreased and TIG welded, then rethreaded. Shouldn't cost you more than $90, unless you have a friend who can do it.

 

Sorry!
Was not really informative on the way forward.
The stripped hole, that now are missing all threads will be drilled, threaded and inserted with a helicoil. Witch I did just earlier today. Works like a charm again. Also checked all other threads for the coverbolts and they looks and works. Well except for the cracked one.

Fully agree that this cannot be drilled and fixed with a helicoil. The plan for this thread is to use as it is first. If it needs to be fixed I will TIG-weld and rethread it. It have worked up til now so I will see if it works first before any bigger changes.

 

Your engine won't be at all happy when the cracked bits break away and find their way into important places. Fix it right. Fix it now. Or replace it.

 

Have removed the camshaft holder with the cracked thread.
It have been inspected by some people at work and it is decided that a replacement is the best solution. So I´ve found a replacement on Ebay and placed a order on it.

 

The replacement part is on its way from Germany, and fingers crossed that is is the right one .
In the meantime have I checked all shims, measured all of the gaps on the camshaft according to the instructions here on the forum. All shims were measured and measurement recorded, shims then removed and inspected and also recorded before they were put back in the bucket before moving on to the next one. The engine have never been turned over without any shims in the bucket.
I´m still afraid to use the tool, and have used the "zip-tie"-method, but with a insulated wire. This method have from what I can see worked well for me. But if I have been too careless and damaged any of the valves, I will probably notice it later.
With the information and measurement have new shims been ordered and replaced. I was able to reuse some of the shims in the process so after the shims was changed, I got measurements that now (almost) are within the specs in the table that I also found here at the forum. I have done a additional purchase for two more shims that I will be replacing before closing the valve cover with the new camshaft holder, and a new valve cover seal.
After that, I hopefully have both intake and exhaust within the specs and the valve cover will be securely fastened.
I have at this stage not changed the doughnut seals on the bolt. The look and feel OK, but will of course change them if needed.

More things is done to the bike and I have a "deadline" on Friday the 7th of July when this bike is goding to be inspected before it can be legal to be on the road.
New ceramic exhaust seals will be installed, a colourtune also after the valve cover is closed. Have already done a bench-sync of the carbs and I really hope it will be enough so that the bike will be approved.
It have not been inspected or approved since 2008 so I´m almost certain that there will be some points that I will need to be done before it is approved. But this is a project, so it will take the needed time to make it right.
But that will probably be in other threads on this forum, this is offtopic in this thread

 

I have the took, and couldn't get it to work. Finally, I used the zip-tie and it worked well. But, I still wanted to see why the tool didn't work so I kept playing with it. Finally, I took a file and filed off the paint on the bolt hole and it started to work. But I still like the zip-tie.