Starter/Ignition Issues - 81 550 Maxim

Hello all completely new to this form and bikes in general. Recently picked up a 81 maxim for free from a guy. Currently trying to trouble shoot wiring issues and I am stuck. So far I've fixed some wiring (ignition switch and kill switch). When I go to turn the bike over the run button only causes oil light indicator to glow bright red. When kill switch is on nuetral light is quite dim. Kick stand relay is bypassed. Turn signals work, but don't blink and horn works. I have also wired in a new fuse box (old one was giving me continuity issues and current to horn/turn signals were spotty prior. These issues have seemed to be resolved). After all this work however, I am confused why I'm not getting power to the starter (I have also bought a new starter solonoid). When power is run directly to starter the pistons move. Getting no clicking from my relay and my battery is reading 11.98 V. Any guidence would be appriciated.

Thanks

 

A couple tests to try;

With your clutch lever pulled in, are you able to crank? If yes, then your neutral switch is likely bad, or you have poor, corroded connections.

If no, there's still several things to check.

The dim neutral light sounds like it might be a connection/corrosion issue. To check the switch, you can jumper directly to ground. To access the switch, remove your shift lever and the chain cover on the left side. Might have to remove your footpeg also.

Here's a photo of the switch. You can jumper directly to the screw connection. Note there is a bullet connector for this wire, but it's in a tight spot between the frame and the case and removing the cover might be easier than fishing out the wire.

Sidestand switch wires also noted here. You say yours is bypassed...do you know where or how? Those two wires should be connected to create a permanent "closed" circuit to bypass the switch.



When you jumper the neutral switch to ground, does your neutral light get brighter? If yes, probably a bad switch.

If no, it might be your starting circuit relay (cutoff relay). This relay, when energized, provides power to the red/white wire on your starter solenoid. The solenoid then waits for a path to ground via its blue/white wire. That path is provided by the starter button which grounds to the frame when pressed. Since you've replaced the starter solenoid we'll assume for now that's ok, and since the red oil light comes on, we know the path to ground for the starter button is also working.

Back to the cutoff relay...it can be energized through a couple different paths. The coil receives power via one of the red/white wires. This is in the same circuit that the red oil light receives power, so again we'll assume that is good (although an individual corroded connection somewhere could void that). The coil waits for a path to ground via the aforementioned neutral switch, or a second path through the clutch lever switch AND the sidestand switch in series. If your sidestand switch is bypassed, then the clutch lever switch is the only remaining portion of that path.

The cutoff relay could be bad, or it might have corroded connections. A good first step is to find it. It's under the fuel tank, above the valve cover.

Here's a photo taken from the right side of the bike, tank removed, looking under the frame above the valve cover. I wrote starting relay...but cutoff relay...same thing.



And here's the relay pulled from it's rubber hanger. Note wire colors.



Numbers you should see printed on the relay.



These relays aren't real cheap, so before throwing money at replacements, unplug it and clean up all the connections. If you still have no luck, I'd suggest the relay test procedure from the manual. If you get that far and need that, just say so. But you'll definitely want to get a manual if you don't have one already.

After the relay is found, you can also turn the kill switch on and off and listen and feel for clicking in this relay.

From your description of cleaning up electrical connections in the fuse box and elsewhere, it sounds like you've got a bike that sat a while and maybe needs a good look at wire connections throughout.

And here's a wiring diagram. Better resolution ones available if you search.

 

I should also mention, when jumping the neutral switch to ground, also physically assure that you are in neutral (on the center stand, wheel spins) if you attempt to start......

 

Hello again, I should have noted in my first post a couple of things:

1) With clutch pulled in I get no crank
2) Kick stand relay is bypassed by a wire closing the curcuit on the female connecter that is suppose to connect near bottem of the bike near chain cover (metal cover not currently on bike)
3) When I switch my kill switch on an off I can hear the switch click...

I'm thinking due to these things it's got to be a corrosion/connection issue at the starter relay plug or something to do with my nuetral relay as you suggested. Im not sure if this is relevant but prior to putting the new fuse box in nuetral like glowed slighly brighter and solonoid cranked a bit, however this wasn't consitant due to the poor current, hence why I put in the fuse box. After the fact I've been having the issues I described above. Measured current today, have 11.98V going to the starter relay and only 1.08V coming out to the starter. Will update in a future post once I get around to testing things and cleaning up terminals this weekend. Lastly, do you have any idea what might be going on with the non-blinking turn signals?

 

There is also a sidestand relay. It energizes when the sidestand switch is closed, and receives power from the same circuit as the cutoff relay and the oil light. When you are turning the kill switch on/off, it will click also since your sidestand switch is bypassed. This relay is located under the seat on the left side. When you hear the clicking, is it up front under the fuel tank? Or back under the seat area? Sometimes these relays are fairly quiet...but then my hearing isn't great!

The sidestand relay doesn't have anything to do with cranking, but is needed for spark. It uses the same paths to ground as the cutoff relay (sidestand switch or neutral switch) with the two circuits separated by diodes.

If you are certain your cutoff relay is the one clicking, that's a good thing.

The 11.98 V measured at the starter relay...is that with the kill switch ON and you are measuring the small red/white wire at the solenoid? If so, this is good news also as that is nearly the end of the circuit, and if you are getting power there, your cutoff relay circuit is working. If you measure 12 V there, run a jumper from the other small solenoid wire (usually blue/white, sometimes different with aftermarket parts) to ground to simulate your start button circuit. Does the solenoid click?

I don't understand the 1.08 V measurement. Which wire are you measuring here, and in what condition (pressing the START button?).

You said it cranked when you ran power directly to the starter. How were you doing that, and did it consistently work that way...as in, the starter never hiccuped when powering it directly?

Your description of the changes and intermittent power with the fuse block change are a little concerning. Sounds like there may still be some connection issues there. Can you post a photo or two of the fuse box and solenoid/battery area? Maybe a photo of where you are measuring that 1.08 V? Somebody might spot something that I'm not thinking about.

Have you also checked/cleaned the major battery cable connections, both positive and ground and at both ends? Sometimes corrosion here will make frustrating problems.

Turn signals turning on but not blinking could be the flasher relay, but also if a bulb is burnt out or you have lower wattage bulbs installed it won't draw enough power to make the flasher relay work. Let's figure out the cranking first.

 

Okay quite update:

Had time today to mess around with things, I disconnected pretty much all the relays and cleaned their connections good. I also changed my clutch cable today since the old one was worn out. This seems to have done the trick with the nuetral light. It now glows bright green when in kill position or run position. I think a combination of these things plus the new cable as a better ground may have helped somehow. I now have the issue of my solonoid firing and still no starter action. Didn't have time to check with voltmeter. As for your prior question of how do you know starter is good and whether the click was from the cut off relay the answer is yes--I know with complete certainity the cut off relay is working correctly. As for the starter, a while back I bypassed the stater relay and ran direct power from the battery to the starter (bike in nuetral) with the battery grounded to the frame. I really just pressed the terminal to the top of the starter enough to hear the bendix engage and turn the pistons a bit. I almost wonder is somehow in the process of testing the starter I damaged the internals making it no longer good? If you or anyone else would like pictures of the wiring I've done I can update the form!

Thanks

 

Electrical issues can be tricky when you have a handful of things all creating compounding problems, but it sounds like you are getting closer just by cleaning up connections. Your method of testing the starter is fine and should not have damaged anything.

You can also test the starter just by shorting across the two big terminals on the starter solenoid with a screwdriver, or a short chunk of wire. Small wire is fine for a brief test (it will heat up quick).

If the starter turns with direct power as above, and starter solenoid is definitely firing...then the solenoid is bad, even though yours is brand new.

I would guess your blinkers are needing the same kind of cleanup...bulb sockets, relay, wire connectors and finally the left handlebar switch itself. The switch disassembly is a little trickier as there are small parts to keep in order.

 

Hello I just put a screw driver between the solonoid terminals! BINGO! Starter engaged and pistons began to move. I believe I may have spark--motor turned over for a moment and ran for like 0.8 seconds!

Thanks so much just need to replace the solonoid now!

Roast if you find yourself in Toledo for whatever reason I owe you a couple beers!

 

Good to hear! It's frustrating when you buy brand new parts and they are bad right out of the box.