unusual starter problem...

ok, I have an 82 XJ750 Seca, I bought it for 400 bux and it ran pretty good. anyways the guy tells me I need to fire it up everyday or the starter wont work right, he told me the s tarter needed to be rebuilt. so I get it and have it for 3 days. went out to fire it up and did nothing but clank and clatter. so we rebuilt the starter and now it wont start the bike at all. after many hours of toying around with it I pull the clutch cover off and hit the start button to watch the gears and the gears are skipping. when no pressure is on the starter the starter gear and gear it meshes with are fine but once you hit the start button it starts to turn over and then goes to skipping teeth. does anyone know whats going on with it? the bike has a hair over 24,000 miles

im just curious to see what was going on and if its a common problem with these bikes. the motor is on a shelf right now fixing to pull the bottom cases apart. any input is appreciated, thank you

 

anyone know whats going on?

 

mispost

 

I'll take a stab at it. Your description of the gears skipping down in the clutch area makes me think you are witnessing the starter clutch sprag not engaging continuously. It sounds to me that your starter cluch is dying. Time to rebuild it. The springs are notorious for letting go. I'm not very familar with the 550 but I believe it has the same starter setup as the 650/750. I hope I'm wrong 'cause you gotta split the case to pull the starter clutch assembly out. There are a few enterprising souls who have posted how-to fixes that leave the motor in the frame and enter through the sump but that is all I can recall. Do a little research on the topic and see if you don't find a solution that your comfortable with. You may also try to run some SeaFoam through the engine before the next oil change and see if that doesn't clean things up a bit (won't fix broken springs but can't hurt anything either).

 

The BIG >>IF<<

IF the bike sat for months on end you might be able to "Clear-out" the Starter Clutch with a good douche.
Pull the starter.
Attach a section of narrow vinyl hose to a Drug Store Ear Syringe.
Use the Syringe to push some SeaFoam through the hose right on the Starter Clutch.

There is NO Guarantee other than the 50~50 Shot that the Starter Clutch is gummed-up and needs to be cleaned and allowed to bathe in clean oil.

There are a few guys who did the douche and got several seasons of no-problem starting before the Clutch Pins started slipping.
But, if you can squeeze a season or two out of getting some sit-around grunge out of the springs and rollers ... all the more power to you.

It's a last gasp.
A shot in the dark.
A roll of the dice.

Here's hoping you make the point!

 

well, this bike has been garaged most of its life now. thank you for the responses ive already pulled the motor and have the head and cylinder off. im having to wait on the Magneto puller so I can continue splitting the cases. ordered new pistons and rings, have a new starter and now im just waiting to see waht else needs to be replaced. I figured id make this a bobber after seeing the excess weight thread. after the motor gets put back together I should be good for a while before anything goes wrong again

 

If you are embarking on the daunting task of splitting the cases and rebuilding the Engine ... be true to yourself and the project and inspect each individual part according tothe specs in the Factory Manual.

Transmission Shift Forks, Gear Dogs, Primary Chain Guide and the infamous Starter Clutch are all components you want to service and/or replace while you have the opportunity and access.

The expense and time replacing those worn and aged parts while the Cases are Split will afford you peace of mind after the job gets buttoned-up and back running again.

Do it all now ... so, you don't have to revisit pulling the Engine again anytime soon after you wrap-up rebuilding your motor.

 

You said it Rick-O, can I get an amen? Sing the praises brother!

 

so far ive ordered new pistons and rings, new timing chain and gears, already have a new starter.

im planning on having the valves adjusted and replacing the starter clutch.
and put a new clutch in while im down there.

the bike is being chopped right now but I want the motor to run like brand new so I wont have to worry about it breaking down on me as it will be my only mode of transportation for a while

 

Don't forget that starter chain guide while your at it!!!

 

We should make a list ... really. No matter how many time I try to think about what you should spec and replace with the cases split ... I never come-up with everything.

 

yes you should make a list so I dont forget anything, even if its something little I want to change it while im down there.

well after taking a ton and a half of bolts out of the motor for some reason I cant get the cases apart.
I think theres a bolt or 2 I havnt found or they are hiding inside the motor.
are these cases pressed by any chance? or can you tell me where the hidden bolts are??

 

There is a bolt inside of the oil filter cavity that you musn't forget. Additionally, the transmission output drive shaft has a bearing carrier on it, secured to the case with three TORX bolts that are spiked into place. These usually must be removed to free up the case.
When I split them, they do offer a bit of a fight so easy does it. I've use a 2X4, brass and plastic faced hammers and pry bars (DO NOT pry on the mating surfaces!) to free them up. Good luck.
Worst case, create some exuse for me to wander up there and lend a hand.

 

got the bolt inside the oil filter area, got the torx screws out last night, I can not find any other bolts holding this thing together, I have 2 different weighted rubber mallets, i beat the hell outta this thing to no avail, im gonna have my dad take a look at it tonight, other than that the motor bein a pain in my ass im done as far as tear down goes, time to put it all back together :twisted:

 

I wouldn't hurry to slap it back together just yet. At this point it would be rather a waste to pass on replacing some parts that usually need replacement at this point. Unless you plan on yanking the engine again down the road shortly and going through all the motions again, I'd keep gently working on spliting the cases. I hope your dad sees something to help get you back on your way. Here is to hoping!

 

yea I plan on buying anything that might cause me trouble any where close down the line, some one mentioned a list of replacment parts that should be done but I dont think one was ever made, it would be very helpful.

so far im replacing:
piston and rings
starter clutch
already got a new starter
clutch
timing chain and guides
having valves checked while the head is off

any other suggestions?

 

You're a brave soul. Bako ... I hope you get that Motor together and it runs like a new Bike.

Don't be in a rush because there are warm breezes happening and you want to get out on-the-road and play.
Just don't shortcut yourself into doing all that wor only to have to revisit it for something you can take care of now while the cases are split.

There are too many sob stories about guys who have done a Chain Guide only to have the Starter Clutch start acting-up a short while after they went and did the hard work of tearing-down an Engine for a Shifter, fork or slipping gear.

 

I bought the bike for 400 bux and now that I read up on my starter clutch and symptoms and how to save itt I could have saved it. but instead i went straight for spliting the cases like an idiot, but since im there i might as well do it right. this will be a nice bike when its done its just gonna talk me a little bit to get everything I want done. ive been jumping around when ever I reach a point where I cant go any farther i'll work on another part of the bike. hopefully in a couple months everything will be done

 

Don't forget, your not alone here. I have been known to wander off and help a fellow XJ'er now and again. A knowledgable second hand makes easy work out of nightmares.

 

I will keep that in mind, thanks for all your help other wise I might have rolled this thing behind the garage and let it rott lol
it will be a good bike for what im doing to it, im not making it to go fast, just look cool and get me to work everyday ( 3 miles lol )