'82 xj750 max resto - clutch not engaging properly

Greetings:

Moving along with my somewhat restore of my '82 xj750 maxim. I have it running (sounds good) and put it up on blocks to try the clutch and trans. Well, it looks like trans will work. I squeeze the lever to engage the clutch and shift into first. Unfortunately it goes right into first and wants to go. So I pulled the clutch and I see I need to replace some plates. But in the mean time I cleaned everything with cleaner and put it back together in hopes to get it to work to give me a sign of life.

Has anyone else come across this issue? What did you find?

Thanks all for your help.

Jason

 

Is the clutch cable adjusted properly? Try the two bolts directly above the crankcase. Take all the slack out and then fine tune with the nut at the handlebar.
Thats what I'd try first
-Chris

 

If you're talking about the clutch dragging enough to turn the back wheel even though it's pulled it, with the bike on the stand, cold, it's gonna. You should be able to stop it with a light touch on the rear brake.

If you're talking about enough clutch drag to want to MOVE the bike when it's off the stand and the clutch is pulled in, then you need to examine the cable, ensure the inner has no broken strands and the cable is properly routed and lubed, and adjust the clutch.

 

Sorry, forgot to metion. To remove the cable from the equation, I held the lever down by the clutch case by hand, therefore removing the cable from the equation. The cable is shot. But it still wants to go right into gear and stall out. I'll try applying the rear brake to see what happens.

Thanks all.

 

You can't release the clutch by hand, you don't have enough mechanical advantage at the little throwout arm; even with a monster pair of channel-locks you can barely move it.

 

I was able to move the lever the cable moves down by the casing. Fairly easily. Should this be too difficult to move? I'm trying to attach a pic but it keeps saying it needs to be less than 500 x 500 pixels. I'm not sure how to adjust the pic.

Thanks,
Jason

 

You can move the lever clockwise until it STOPS. When it stops, it's now in position to do its job. Moving it further clockwise is when it pulls the clutch release rod; THAT you can't do, you need the cable and lever.

The lever needs to be stopped in its clockwise movement with it in position to start to pull in the clutch. You may need to back the throwout lever up a spline or two on the shaft.

 

Here's a pic of the lever I'm moving. I will remove the cover and adjust the pull rod again. I will position it down facing slightly to the rear.

I didn't really go over the basket itself. Could it be a basket issue? I've read if there are groves it could be stuck?

The cable is shot so I'm going this weekend to order a new.

Thanks for the help!

Jason

 

OK. If that's where it's stopping when being pushed clockwise then it just needs to be backed up on its splines.

See that "ridge" cast into the case just below the lever?

There is a 'tic' mark on the "butt" of the lever itself, pretty much directly opposite the lever end. It should line up with that ridge on the case when you push the lever clockwise until it stops.

Your lever's starting position is too far "forward" so it doesn't have enough travel to disengage the clutch fully is all.

 

So I should pull the casing and readjust the push and pull rods?

 

That is not where it is stopping. It drops the rest of the way down. Wouldn't it be an opposite of an issue since I can't get it to disengage and go into "neutral". The bike can actual go into the neutral gear. But say when you have the trans engaged in 1st and squeeze the clutch (moving the lever forward) it should put it in "neutral", it does not do that. But, i can go in and out of 1st neutral 2nd and so on without using a clutch, so it immediately goes into the gear.

 

You're not understanding how the mechanism works.

The rod can move freely until you bring it clockwise until it stops.

At that point, NO MATTER WHERE the lever is, once you turn it CLOCKWISE until it stops, the throwout shaft is now holding the pull rod against the inside of the pressure plate.

Then you need to re-set the lever on the shaft so that WHEN STOPPED, against CLOCKWISE rotation, the tic mark on the butt of the lever lines up with the mark on the case. That will put the lever in the correct "starting position" to disengage the clutch when actuated BY THE CABLE. You do NOT have enough mechanical advantage to actually disengage the clutch by manually operating the throwout lever.

The shaft and lever can flop "backward" (counter-clockwise) and that has nothing to do with the actuation.

You will be able to shift in and out of gears without the clutch with the bike on the stand, that is ok.

 

Ok. I think I'm following you. Thank you for your patience. This is my first build. So I did as you said. And I adjusted it and my tic mark is in line with the mark on the casing when the pull rod is against the pressure plate. I hooked up my cable (still the old cable, only thing wrong is it is hard to move due to interior rust). So now that should mean when I squeze my clutch and it moves the lever which moves the pull rod to the position against the pressure plate it should not be in gear. Correct?

When I squeeze my cable it does pull the lever the whole way to the point it stops the pull rod on the pressure plate. Unfortunately while still in first gear it will not disengage it to "netural".

So just to make sure my method is correct. The pull rod doesn't really move anything but itself back and forth to touching the presure plate and the interior casing.

So far with these new adjustments I made this evening it still does not work. Using the cable it pulls the rod until it touches the pressure plate. But it is still in first (or whatever gear I choose).

I noticed some groves on the back of the casing. Could the casing be my issue?

I'm not 100% sure of how the whole thing works. From piece to piece.

Thanks again Bigfitz. You find your way towards Hershey or Harrisburg Pennsylvania I owe you some beers...

Jason

 

OK, we're on the right track, but there's still a little confusion, I'll try to clear it up:

"Neutral" is a gearbox "selection" between first and second gears. Pulling in the clutch does NOT engage neutral, it disconnects the transmission from the motor no matter what gear you are in, and allows you to select a gear.

You are almost correct about the "pull rod." But it has to do more than just TOUCH the pressure plate, it has to LIFT it, against the force of the clutch springs, off of the stack, thus releasing the clutch. So the pull rod moves more than itself, it lifts the pressure plate.

You're still not adjusted correctly.

"When I squeeze my cable it does pull the lever the whole way to the point it stops the pull rod on the pressure plate."

It has to START OFF "touching" and therefore stopped against the inside of the pressure plate. Then when you pull the cable, the pull rod lifts the pressure plate off the clutch pack.

As described, your cable is simply pulling the "slack" out of the throwout mechanism, not lifting the plate.

You need to have the tic mark lined up with the mark on the casing at the point that your lever is STOPPED (clockwise rotation) against the pressure plate inside, so that any further movement of the cable pulls the pressure plate. Once again, YOU will not be able to do this "manually" it requires the mechanical advantage of the cable and lever.

Because the amount of "lift" required to fully disengage the clutch is just about equal to the amount of travel produced by a GOOD clutch cable, until you get your new cable and get it adjusted correctly, it will NOT lift the pressure plate enough to fully disengage the clutch.

If you have a funky, rusty, stretchy old cable, you're beating your head against the wall.

I think you've pretty much got it, the problem is your nasty old cable isn't giving you the full lift necessary, and won't be able to. Get a new cable (be sure to lube it) installed and adjusted and you should be fine.

 

Fantastic! I'm following you. I had it followed from the beginning but second guessed myslef and got all screwed up. I think I know exactly what to do to re-adjust tonight. I will have to go to the local shop and order my cable. Just timing with work and their winter hours suck. I may be able to make my old cable work for just this testing phase.

So my cable pulls the lever which will pull the rod that will take the tension off the stack of plates (by pull the pressure plate) which will dissengage the gear (until reapplied).

 

*ding*ding*ding* Bob, tell that man what he's won!

YES! The cable pulls the lever which rotates the shaft which, by way of its gear teeth, pulls the rod which lifts the pressure plate off the clutch pack, releasing tension thereby disengaging the engine from the transmission allowing you to change gears.

YOU GOT IT! Order a cable from chacal (XJ4Ever) you'll probably have it quicker and it will most likely cost less than at the Stealership.

Remember if your old cable is in sorry enough shape it won't lift the clutch fully enough to release it.

 

I would go thru Chacal, but I have a gift card that was gotten for me that I can use for this item.

I'm going to heat the garage up tomorrow and try and make my necesary adjustments and give it a try. Stupid question...If I would pull my clutch back out (pressures plate and metal & friction plates), would that mean it would be in a dissengaged state until the plates and pressure plate is reinstalled? So while all was out and I would shift into first my clutch basket should just spin freely since it is considered disengaged? Just thinking out loud. I think I'm just paranoid with the whole clutch.

If my cable has too much slack then I'll just have to wait. I have so much work ahead of me anyway. I have to finish sanding my tank and spray it. I'm touching up the frame paint. I got new front and rear brakes. And all the fluids to change. Plus I have to pull the motor off the mounts to run my new pick wires up thru.

I'm sure all this will keep me busy for a while!

Thanks again for all the help!

 

Yes. With all the guts out everything is disengaged. The basket is geared to the motor; the hub is mounted on the transmission shaft. Without the pressure plate to "mash" the pack together the two (engine and tranny) are disconnected. Simply removing the pressure plate would have the same effect. That's because lifting the pressure plate off the pack is how the clutch disengages. You got it.

 

Well, I was out messing around with the bike. I have it all hooked up right. To my new knowledge . I can barely squeeze my clutch at all. Something in the clutch is way to tight. When I had all the plates out I thought the springs felt unusally hard/tense.
How hard/tense should these springs be? I don't recall the ones for the Kawi Ninja being this hard. I can very barely squeeze one in my hand.

 

Ok. Well, round two on the bike was better. I took the whole basket out. Cleaned everything up and re-installed. IT WORKED! But, it is still hard to squeeze. I know part of it is the crappy old cable. But, man.

I got it to work for easing into first. But when I was in first and wanted to dissengage was a different question. I couldn't get it to fully dissengage because of the squeeze difficulty and while holding the back tire to see if will stop 100%. PIMA.

I'll try and get this cable soon. Strange thing happend though. After all this. I went to find neutral (the gear) again and it is being hard to find. I keep going up and down but sometimes it hit and sometimes I had to do it a ton of times. Is this a linkage issue of some sort? Time to hit the book again.

I'll try and get some pics of this project posted so all can see.

 

Maybe someone swapped out your clutch springs. Order up a set of OE springs from chacal, they're cheap.

It's hard to find neutral because the clutch is dragging slightly, and/or the bike is cold. That's normal if your clutch isn't adjusted properly or you have a "stretchy" cable.