Carbon on pistons - good/bad? Clean w/o removal?

So I noticed when pulling my plugs out... at least one of my cylinders is REALLY carbon-y.

The PO had somehow got the bike to run great - with the idle screws at 5 or 6 turns out. Yes, 5 or 6, not two or three.

So I think some of the excess noise I hear (sounds to me more than just valve noise, I am used to yamaha valve noise with the atv's I've had)

Can I drop seafoam in there and let it soak and somehow suck it out?
Or what about this trick I heard of, steamcleaning... by running the motor nice and hot and misting water spray into the intake...? Sounds scary to me.

I know supposedly carbon is a bonus on the pistons, adding higher compression and allowing cooler temps. At least this is what I read reading up on the subject on the web.

What are you opinions on this?

 

Take the head off & de-coke, pollish the head & piston tops, then set your carbs up properly.

 

Starter, carbs, battery, pissing up rope, carbon. You really need to focus on 1 thing at a time!

That carbon is only a problem if the compression is too high. What is the compression in that cylinder? Unless it's above spec I'd get on with other things.

Sufficient time at 6500 rpm with correct mixture will remove any excess :wink:

 

Ditto what Wizard and MiCarl said. IMHO, I'd sort the other problems first then attack carbon buildup. It might not be nearly as bad as you suspect.

Misting (not flooding) water works and has been used for years. Same for Seafoam used properly; too many knowledgeable tuners using it for it to be junk. As an interim measure, while sorting the rest of the bike, an oz per gallon in the tank might not hurt. I've used it in bikes, lawnmowers, weed whackers, and cars as preventive measure with good results.

 

What Carl said. Unless there's a real issue with that cylinder, you have actually important things to worry about. Once the bike's running properly, a few miles at road speed will clear it right out.

 

Way to jump down my throat guys, chill out!

A simple 'Don't worry about it till you fix the other stuff' would have been fine with me.

All I wanted to know was your opinions, and whether those water/seafoam tricks work or not.

Sorry if I seem to be rushing through my bike, but I only work around 90 hours a week and have two days at most, 3 hours at most to work on it. So, my brain runs rampant thinking of things to check and do to the bike when I can get to it.

When I post - I am not working on the bike, I am running ideas passed you guys so when I DO get time to work on it, I have enough knowledge flowing through my head to see what's going on, the whole picture.

Is it XJBikers time of the month or something?

 

Hey Dpawl, you've posted enough to know that the guys on this forum are generally nice and knowledgable. If they are smacking you around a bit, its time to ask yourself why? Remember the advice they are giving you is free and PRICELESS. I've doubled the starting price on my bike with parts to get it running right. Without these guys, that would be quadroupled to pay someone else to do it.

Bottom line, take your lumps and listen to them...

 

Understood cube... and agreed.

But seriously... I didn't come in this post saying

Holy crapzoid my carbon buildzupz iz makin my riedz run pissy!

Sometimes it just bugs me when I ask more than a couple questions and get told I am going to fast. Too fast to learn? no...
Did I say I am doing every bit of this RIGHT NOW? no.

merely learning what I can, while I can't touch the bike.

I didn't say carbon was the root of all my problems, or even ask if it was.
I just wanted opinions on it, and removal processes etc.

 

Let's just settle this. Carbon, not a problem.
A motor running the right way will clear it out.
So get the motor running right, right?

Yay!

One less thing to worry about while I spend my few hours tomorrow night on the bike. Then it sits till Saturday... till I have more time for it!

Hopefully - bluepotpie's YICS tool with my makeshift sync bottles will get me synced and running better. I really think that could be my cure-all.

Just wanted opinions on the carbon, sheesh! Sorry I type fast and post often! (like, 250 posts in a month... O_O)

 

carbon-y, now thats a word ! i tried seafoam in the vacuum ports once and the thing detonated so hard it scared me, be careful of that stuff
on the other hand i had some water suck in the vacuum ports while syncing the carbs and blew some black crap out the exhaust, that might be the way to go

 

Dpawl, I'd just fix the issues and see what time and a properly tuned engine will do for the carbon before tearing the head off. I've pulled heads and de-carboned them and the pistons and will do my utmost to avoid it again.
And... It's cool bro'. I think the fellows (apologies the the ladies out there) are just trying to help you focus. Heaven knows how many times a well placed comment from a friend helped keep me on the path. And I did take my share of ribbing in the process but, again, keep in mind that they want you to succeed as much as you do!
Peace bro.

 

Polock... man you are funny lol.

Carbon-y... even though it's not a word, you knew what I meant right!? lol

I don't like the seafoam idea anyway.
I have done the vac thing on a car before using Techron in the PCV valve.
Worked great loosened a lot up, so maybe I will try that!

Can't hurt much if you go slow. . . .

^--- '' that's what she said! ''

Robert - you are the man. I definitely feel like you understood what I was saying about being kind of kicked in the hoohahs right now.
I just wanted some opinions on it, and just because I had like, 8 questions spread over a few posts about different topics at the same time (because I work too damn much!) everyone thought I was loosing focus, veering off track. I am on track, first thing is battery, then sync. See where I get to from that.

No hard feelings peeps!

 

dpawl dude, we wouldn't break your crank if we didn't love you... believe me we all understand what you're going through, some of us took a few YEARS longer than you but we've all been there.

We're just trying to keep you on track to getting your bike running right WITHOUT rebuilding it from the ground up. There are a GAZILLION things less important than what's in the way of day-to-day reliability right now, were just trying to keep you focused on those issues for now.

Trust me, eventually (and you're closing in) it's gonna run great, and you'll have all the pertinent stuff fixed and be able to ride it on a daily basis. THEN you can worry about all the other stuff; and you'll have to-- it will prioritize ITSELF. I've actually used the phrase "brand new 25-year old bike." NOT. You can't replace everything, entertaining but non-critical failures will occur. But by then you'll be over the 'hump' and it will be entertaining, honest...

 

The problem with Carbon is that it builds-up and spreads. Carbon on the Piston Crowns means that there is Carbon to be found elsewhere.
Enough of a build-up will contribute to overheating because it retains heat.
Further, too much of it will contribute to Pre-Ignition Knocking.
If the carbon is building-up on the Valve Stems; it leads to the Valve "Sticking" and contributes to the possibility of damage to the Valve Face and Seat if it causes the Valve to close properly.

Carbon does not get removed with additives, water, or the contents of any container that says "Removes Carbon"
Carbon is a step or two removed from being diamond.

Carbon removal is labor intensive.
Wire wheel, gloves and cursing.
Wire brush away the Carbon deposits and work on the surface that accumulated the Carbon.
A Polished Surface resists anything accumulating upon its surface.

A Special Tuning Stage is Polishing to eliminate Carbon and promote exhaust flow.
The Cylinder Head Combustion Chamber is brought to a High Gloss Polish after smoothing away any casting imperfections on the Head's surface and within the Intake and Exhaust Ports with the Valves removed.
Cover the Valve Seats with Duct Tape to prevent a Took nick.

The Piston Crowns are done two at a time.
Bring the Pistons up to TDC.
Mask off the Blockk to keep the Carbon out of the Crankcase.
High Speed Wire Wheel the Piston Crown with a Shop Vac pulling away the matter being removed off the Piston Crown surface.
Once the Crown is Carbon free ... Sand down surface until blemish free and Polish.

 

I WANT to do that! Rick, love your highly detailed posts.

Can't wait to bring the bike down to show you, when you are ready.

I think your 'polishing tuning stage' is something I would love to do. When I get to a point, maybe this winter, I will break down the motor, change all gaskets, clean everything possible, polish everything possible, and fix that danged starter too!

For now, I'll run as is- as long as 'as is' is good enough