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Clutch slip

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by tiff, Mar 20, 2010.

  1. tiff

    tiff Member

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    I'm getting clutch slip at high revs.. it doesn't feel like normal worn clutch clutch slip, as it grips fine in low gears and pulls away hard but in high gears it slips sometimes at about 9k ish. instant slip just like pulling the lever.. could it be the semi synthetic oil I used?
     
  2. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    How many miles on it? When the clutch is wearing out that's the early symptom.

    It depends on the oil. Was it motorcycle specific semi-synth, or car oil? Oils containing "friction modifiers" (usually labeled energy conserving or somesuch) are not good for our clutches.

    Did you just resurrect this bike from a long "sit?" The plates could be all gummed up and might benefit from a good cleaning; once again mileage would be a clue.
     
  3. tiff

    tiff Member

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    Bike has 32000 miles, and it was sitting for maybe 3 years I believe? I've always used 10w40 semi car oil in my bikes and have never had a proble. You may be on to something with cleaning the plates as the last guy said the clutch was stuck,and it doesn't happen every time.. I'll strip it out and have a look. Cheers!
     
  4. PainterD

    PainterD Active Member

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    Car oil will definetely make the clutch slip. It's the antifriction additives that do it. Flush it out and put motorcycle oil in it. And check the adjustment of the clutch for free play also.
     
  5. tiff

    tiff Member

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    I've read a lot of conflicting advice about car oil vs bike oil, I've always used ordinary car oil in the past, even with my 135hp RF900 the clutch didn't slip a bit! Clutch freeplay is spot on as per the Yamaha manual. I need to get some more miles on it to let everything bed in again after standing for so long...
     
  6. markie

    markie Member

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    That's what I say!! I don't know when you had your last bikes but car oils have got a lot better lately. My car takes 5w -30 fully synthetic.! It's only a family runaround.
     
  7. MidniteMax

    MidniteMax Member

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    My Midnight has 14000 miles on it now.
    A few thousand miles back, I tried Mobil 1 15W-50 synthetic in it and in my Millenium Venture. Got clutch slip in both bikes. Changed back to Castrol 10W-40 and no more slipping.
    I just put Mobil 10W-40 synthetic in my 88 Venture and like it a lot. The transmission seems to be very smooth to operate. I haven't put but about 500 miles on it yet, so can't say anything about slip yet.
    I've had bikes for 40 years and have generally always used Castrol car oil in them with no problems. I just make sure there isn't anything in the lower 1/2 of the "starburst" on the side of the oil jug where the economy or friction reducing statement is made. As long as you don't go down into the 5W-30 range, I wouldn't think you would have a problem.
     
  8. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I've used Castrol GTX 20W50 "car oil" for over 30 years with no ill effects.

    That being said, it NOW has "sludge-fighting" additives that it didn't have up until recently, although it still does NOT say "energy conserving" or "friction reducing" anywhere (yet.)

    I switched to Castrol 4T 20W50 "Motorcycle" oil for my 20W50.
    I use Spectro 20W40 conventional motorcycle oil for my 20W40, although I am going to try some of the new Castrol high-tech semi-synth made specifically for 4-cyl motorcycles this summer and see.

    Do a forum search and see just how many times we've had this discussion.
     
  9. tiff

    tiff Member

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    Thanks guys! I'll strip the clutch out today if I can and have a look. I've been a car mechanic for 20 years,and have seen the differences in oil over that time..along with greatly extended service intervals.. In my opinion 20,000 miles is too long between oil changes,however hi tech the oil is!
     
  10. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    When you take the clutch apart, do us a favor?

    Take a look at this: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=22927.html (it may help you with reassembly too)

    Tell us if your bike matches the CORRECTED diagram (only one "clutch boss spring/special plate) or does it match the ORIGINAL diagram (before I scribbled all over it?)

    Thanks in advance.
     
  11. tiff

    tiff Member

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    Will do! I'll try and get some pics..unless the slip sorts itself before I dismantle it :wink:
     
  12. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    It's been my experience in over 44 years of doing this that problems that "sort themselves" rarely stay sorted.

    If we already know the clutch was stuck, I would recommend a quick teardown and inspect. You may find that the friction plates left a lot of themselves behind on the plain plates and the little friction pads are starting to crumble. Let it go and it will eventually tear up the plain plates and be more expensive to fix.

    Brake cleaner on the friction plates, Scotchbrite (non-metallic abrasive pad) on the plain plates, lots of clean oil on everything as it goes back in.

    Put the bike on the sidestand and you will lose almost no oil. Be sure to shove a rag in the bottom of the clutch gallery to catch any debris, as it drains directly into the sump.
     
  13. tiff

    tiff Member

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    Thanks Fitz, My experience is with cars, I suppose thats why I love BMW bikes :wink: I'll tear it down and have a look.
     
  14. wamaxim

    wamaxim Active Member

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    Tiff, do you have a BMW bike? Mine has a dry clutch and if the main seal on the engine leaks, as they do sometimes, you have an $800 USD parts bill to set it right again. Not to mention 25 hours of do it yourself labor. Lots of tupperware to remove, final drive pulled, the center stand has to be pulled, the drive shaft removed, the transmission unbolted and pulled back, etc. It's a freakin' nightmare! I think I like wet clutches! One good(?) thing is that you can use regular car oil in it. But I use Castrol 20W50 4T oil in it because it meets specs, is $5/qt and costs HALF what the BMW branded oil costs!

    The dealer will gladly do the work for me but the bill goes to $2500 to $2800 USD! Yipes! 8O True story! They will also do an engine oil change for me too for $189 USD. No thanks. I bought yesterday 4 qts of oil, a WIX filter, a quart of Royal Purple 75W90 for the gearbox and final drive, and a half gallon of antifreeze. It cost me $65.

    Did I mention I like air cooled bikes with wet clutches?

    Loren
     
  15. tiff

    tiff Member

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    I've owned 2, a boxer R1100Rs and a "K" K100LT.

    I find maintinence and repairs on them really easy, much like a car. Did 2400 miles last year in 6 days on the RS going to Poland and back. 1 day was 25 hours on the bike. I love 'em!

    I've seen plenty of BMW bikes with 150k + on the odometer, usually clutches last 50-80k, an RS clutch is less than a days work, the frame unbolts and you lift it up out the way to give easy acess to the box and shaft drive,which all comes out in 1 piece...

    Here's me entering Poland for the first time..
    [​IMG]

    Here's my first BMW.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. tiff

    tiff Member

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    Here's a pic of a clutch change.. looks bad, but actually straightforward!

    [​IMG]
     

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