Confirm My Carb Suspicions?

Here are a couple of pics:

Carb #1? I think this should be carb bowl #3 or #4. See anything else wrong with this bowl?


And Carbs #1 and #2. Again, pretty sure these should be 3 & 4.



My suspicions:
The carb bowls were put on the wrong bodies.
And PO/carb repair dude filled in the holes for carb drain and carb drain screw.
Actually the bowl on carb #3 is the same way. I have no clue what the screw holes are filled with, although on #3 bowl it scratched rather easily with the end of a drill bit.

Does anyone know the size of the drain screw hole so I can chase the threads when I fix this?

 

Uh, yeah, it's generally accepted that the drain screws face OUTWARD so, you know, you could like GET TO THEM. My black bike came with a couple of the drain screws facing inward too.

All I can say is: EGAD!

I strongly suspect that there aren't going to be much left in the way of threads in the "repaired" hole; that's probably why that was done. A PO stripped out the drain screw so he did that. I'd just get another bowl.

Egad.

 

Thanks Fitz.

I figured they either stripped them or lost the screw.

Nice to know that Superman was a previous owner of this bike. X-ray vision is the only way to set the float height on these.

At least that's the only thing wrong with them. They were pretty clean inside when I opened them up.

 

If you do a search for xj carb bowls on ebay. You will find a guy in mississippi that strips carbs and sells them for parts. A good bet that he will have a set if you can not find anyone here with a set.

Ghost

 

I did see his set, but they are for an '82 650 YICS motor.

The part number on my bowls start with 5V2, which means they are 650 Seca specific.

I didn't think they would interchange because of this, so I didn't grab them.

They are a good deal at $29, but I'd still be dealing with the drain screws.

 

SUCCESS!!!.......kinda.

I figured I didn't have anything to lose, since if I couldn't get the screw holes correct I'd be buying a new bowl anyways.

So I started with bowl #3, not the bowl in the pic.

Drilled a pilot hole with my smallest Dremel drill bit in the drain and drain screw holes. Then proceeded to go progressively larger until I could use a pick to start cleaning the holes out.

The drain hole was no problem. It took quite a bit of patience to get the screw hole cleaned out enough to try chasing the threads.

Since I didn't know what size tap I needed to borrow from the in-laws, and he probably didn't have metric anyway, AND since I planned on buying four new drain screws because of the condition of the heads on these, I decided to use one of the other screws to chase the threads.

After spraying the hole with carb cleaner and turning the screw a turn and a half, backing it out, and repeating, I got the hole all cleaned up and the screw to seat properly. Even passed the leak test.

The #1 bowl however, was a totally different animal.

I don't know what they filled these holes with, but it is possibly the hardest thing I've ever drilled in to.

I dulled 5 drill bits of two different sizes, AND one bit broke off inside the screw hole.

At that point I gave up. Like I said, I had nothing to lose. Just one more thing to add to the winter parts list.

At least I saved one bowl.

 

lol....not laughing at your problem, just funny someone filled the holes on an aluminum carb with the hardest substance known to mankind. btw tskaz, I like the new digs. I declare it new avatar time for all (sorry not trying to hijack)

 

People do the damndest things.

One of my POs was the master of "incorrect fastener substitution." This was the same fool who thought the XJ550 takes a gallon of oil.

He also had the float bowls on with the screws facing inward. Seems to be a common affliction.

 

Probably a Chunk of EZ-Out.

Getting-out stuck Drain Screws after they are "Chewed" requires both Finesse' and Muscle.

Finesse':

You need a DREMEL Tool
Flexible Wand extension
Diamond Tipped Cutting Bit.

Clean it.
Use the Diamond Cutting Bit to create a SINGLE Screwdriver Slot.

Muscle:

Sears Hand-Held Impact Driver
1/2" -to- 3/8" Socket Adapter
3/8" Bit-Holding Socket
Screwdriver Bits to fit Socket.

Get the Medium-sized Screwdriver Bits.
Grind the BIT down on each side to FIT the Blade ... into ... the Drain Screw Opening.
Precision grinding. Remove only enough from the sides of the Blade to get the Bit into the Drain Hole.

Slice an X into a Tennis ball
Mount the Ball on the Butt-end of a Hard-wood Hammer Handle
Mount the Hammer Handle ... Vertically, ... in a Vice.

Work with an Assistant HOLDING the Bowl upon the Gig so that YOU will can Strike the Tool with an accurate blow.

Gloves.
Heat.
Mini-Butane Pencil-point Lighter.
Hold Bowl firmly
Apply Pre-Strike pressures and Torque.

Strike an Impact Blow
One.
Reposition and ready before 2nd blow.

 

it was a 6X1 tap that you needed.
how you cut a screwdriver slot in a 6mm bolt thats in a 6mm hole is beyond me, maybe cut it to fit a torx bit

 

Might have been a product like "quick-steel." It's an epoxy like metal fill that withstands high temperature and fluids of all kinds. They claim it makes a strong bond, but I've found it only works well in tight places where no torsion is applied. Just like your holes there-it would set up nicely in that circular chamber and be tough as hell. And it does turn grayish brown after a while of exposure (starts out dark grey).

That is one seriously jacked up job. "Hey let's stop that damn leak and sell this thing!"

 

I've used Quicksteel and JB Weld, and had to drill into them before. In my previous life I was into old tractors.

I do think that #3 bowl was actually some sort of epoxy, but that #1 bowl is something else.

Does anyone know if a bowl from another model will work on the 650 Seca?

If not I'll have to email Len when I get a few minutes.

 

DREMEL

Industrial Diamond-tipped Cutting Tool
$10.00


Dremel Diamond Taper Point Bit Features:
• A high-speed cutter made of steel tipped with DIAMOND particles
• Ideal for fine detail work on wood, jade, ceramic, glass, HARDENED STEEL, and other hard materials
• Removes material quickly and easily
• For hard to reach areas ⬅ ⬅ ⬅ !!!
• For use with Single-Speed MultiPro® Rotary Tool #275 (2561-4231), Two-Speed MultiPro® Rotary Tool Kit #2850-02, Variable-Speed MultiPro® Rotary Tool

 

well your 6mm screw goes in a 5mm hole so if you grind a perfect .1875 (3/16) slot EXACTLY in the center, that leaves .005 on each end before you hit the threads and since your tool is tapered your going to hit the treads anyway if the slot has PARALLEL sides.
now with no deflection when going from "soft" steel to the ez-out and the perfect slot cut and grinding the perfect blade to fit it you just don't have enough metal to do the job. the screw twisted itself off, it's stuck, get over it, it's a nice theory but it won't work.
in theory you can put a man on the moon with a slingshot

 

Looks like the carb bowls were swapped around so the dodgy repair would be out of sight ... good trick

 

According to the service manual. The 82 650Rj uses the standard Hitachi HSC32 carbs that are general issue for all 650/750's. The carbs also use the 4H7 float & gasket.

There is no reason why the standard 650 bowls would not work on your carbs. This is just another case of the same part under a different part number that is fairly common with these bikes. The different part number may simply be for a different finish treatment for that bike.

Ghost

 

The Diamond-tipped bit is NOT used to make a hole.
The Bit is used to create a Slot.

http://www.inlandhobby.com/category_s/7.htm

You need the Flex Wand equipped with an adjustable chuck.
Then, ... you pretend to be a Dentist.

 

Ghost, thanks for the info. Len PM'd me back last night with this:

Mine are the dual outlet. It's good to know that I can use any bowl from a 650/750 Hitachi.

Might pick up that set on ebay and play around with them. If that doesn't work out I'll add it to the list I have to order from chacal this winter.

On a side note, what do you guys use to plug the intake on the motor side when leaving the carbs and boots off for an extended period?

 

Classic. I think that could be the "Previous Owner Theme Song".....

 

hey rickomatic
will that diamond bit cut into a broken screw extracter?

 

Look in the DREMEL Bit Catalog.

They have a 5/64ths Diamond Coated Cutter.
It's touted to cut Hardened Steel.

$15-17.00