ELectrical! bike will not start.

I was on 275 today when my bike started to die. I worked my way off the road. When I looked under the seat I had a blown fuse. I replaced it with the extra I carry. I turned the bike on, got a green light, then when I went to turn it over nothing. It blew again. I replaced it again and messed with th wires. This time the N light just gets a little dim when I hit the switch.. So did I kill the... Relay I guess it is called. I push started it with a passing riders help.. I NEED to find him and thank him MORE!! He helped me out alot and he was just going on about how this is what we do... as riders we help each other. But I can't thank hi enough. ANy way, I do not have the bar controles. It was replaced with a switch and the what I guess is called a relay is not the stock relay. Now i need to run to work but I would love some info on what to do. Thanks alot gotta run.

OH this all happend leaving my first job to go to my second. THIS is what I get for all my hard work. Yet I still do not have money to buy a new bike hah.

 

Today I took a look at things. My switch broke so I bought a new switch and put new fuses in. I turn the key and have my n light, but just as before when I hit my swich to turn the bike over the light dims and then blows the fuse. I can not find the short. I am going to go back out side to take the head light off and take a look at my rats nest. I may cut all of the wires and wire them together instead of the crappy plugs. I know I have loose connections in there. My turning light some times shuts on and off. Then I am going to try to start it up again.

 

You need to pull the Starter and test that the Starter will Spin.

If the Starter is jammed or stuck; you'll blow fuses until you run out of fuses.

 

HAh, yea, I thought Of that but forgot to check it. I thought it might have gotten jammed. The relay seems to be workingas far as I can tell. I just get no sound from the starter. I looked over the wires and even replaced some that looked like they needed it. This has still not helped at all. I am ging to have to test the starter. How would I test it?

 

Can't I bipass the relay?

 

The starter seems free, could the relay be shorted its self. It is not the stock relay. It looks like it is out of a truck or some thing. Some one els put it there. I have no experince with them. Could it short out internaly? I took the starter out then left it unplgged and flipped the switch and it shorted again so dose that mean It is before the starter? I am going to see if auto zone can test the starter for me but I am unsure about them testing motorcycle starters.

I am a novice when it comes to wiring. I need to learn.

 

Auto zone can't test it.

 

If you can connect a cable from a battery neg terminal to the housing of the starter and another to the pos of the battery. Hold the starter in a vice if posible or very securly under your foot on the ground. Touch the starter terminal quickly. If it won't turn, its bad. If it starts to turn, hold the connection and let the starter run for ten to fifteen seconds. It shouldn't get hot if its OK.

 

Alright, thank you. I was going to do that but I am trying to figuer out were my jumper cables are to make it a little easier. I broke our best tool yesterday at work. I cut a good bit of my thumb and finger nail off, hah. I do not have a vice around me at the moment, But I will think of some thing. I have a bunch of clamps I just need to find some thing to clamp it to. I live in a apartment complex so its always a pain to work on things here.

 

You can hold it in your hand but be very careful. There is a lot of torque and the whole starter will try to spin. I usually hold them to the ground with my foot so that I don't twist my wrist, but I've seen people holding them in their hand without too much trouble.

Let me know if the wiring schematic for your bike will help you. Sorry just checked and I have for a 550. I can probably get a 650 diagram from my friend. Will take a day or so though.

 

There's a very simple little job to try before you get to the hair-pulling-out phase.

Clean-up the "Ground" connections that come from the Coils to the Frame.
Where the Coil mounts to the Frame ... Use and abrasive (An Emery Board does great) and clean-up the Ground Connections.
Shine the Wire's terminal end.
Sand the Frame's grounding spot to bare metal.

 

Ok, After I got home from work tonight I fiished up the stater. Just before I left to go to work I took the stater apart and cleaned the inside up and greased it a little. The only thing that look bad was a few metal shavings around the gears on the inside just above the motor. It did not look like anything to worry about though, maybe just some normal wear. I put it back together after I got home and through the jumper cables to it. It ran fine. I let it run a while until I heard the battery losing power than unplugged it. I picked it up in my hand and it didn't feel even a little warm. After I get off work tomorrow I will hook it up to the bike and clean the grounds from the coil and see if this changes any thing.

So would the circuit with the relay and starter make the bike not run? It died while I was riding. I didn't hit a bump or anything. I have looked at the diagrams... I mean When it comes to electrical I try to look at the diagrams, but I have to say try because I have very little time working with this sort of thing. So what els is on this circuit to make the bike stop running? And why would it have shorted while I was riding but then after I put a new fuse in I can still push start it and still ride? I am a little confused about it. I can push start the bike and ride it but I pop a fuse when I try to turn it over,BUT The first time it happend was when I was riding?.. If I werent so young, yet already going bald I would start pulling my hair out now...

 

Hasersys, Do Not run a starter for more than about 15 or so seconds, you will burn it out! Give it a minute or two (more is better) to cool between cycles.
Are you running your stock fuse block? If so, you NEED to replace it right away. It can and will give you all sorts of electrical gremlins.
The other bit you need to test is the solenoid. Is it stuck or does it click when you push the starter button?

 

I was actualy looking at replacing the fuse box. Two of the fuses that were in the fuse box had been replaced and relocated from the fuse box. The othere two are still in the fuse box. When I turn the key on I can hear a slight click, but when I hit my switch to turn it over I do not get anything. My light just dims and nothing happens.

 

From my experience, when the lights dim, you are drawing a load off of the electrical system. You need to mention which fuse keeps blowing (Main or IGN). Each one could be a different (Chorus: DUH!) issue but we need to start at the fuse that keeps blowing. Until you provide direction, troubleshooting will be a bit difficult.
I would be very cautious about hacking your connectors out. But if you insist, at least hang on to the connectors, I harvest them to fix broken harnesses.
As for your broken switch, was it the switch plate that broke or the barrel? I'm interested in dead switches, they can lend new life to another with other problems (I LOVE to salvage stuff, good for the earth and for our XJs).

 

My bike is missing alot of its original parts. I got it off a guy that hacked it all up. I am not sure of witch fuses are witch. Also he removed the last two fuses and replaced them with new ones. The first fuse that went out was the one one the red and whie wire. Then I replaced it with a fuse I had in my bag witch I belive was a 30a fuse, then the first fuse went out when I tried to start it up. Is it possible my lights shorted and my solenoid shorted? I think It is safe to say I really need to strip the bike and replace all of the electrical. The normal controles on the right handle bar have been replaced and I have a switch on the side of the bike to start it. That was the only controles that were relocated.

How can I test the solenoid?

Tomorrow I am going to replace the fuse box. I am not sure on what fuses go where. I have a feeling the person I got it off of didn't have the right fuses in the right place. So if some one could give me a picture or schimatec that would do me tons of help. Also what fuse box type would you recomend using?

Oh I have been riding this bike for the past 6-7 months and out of no where this happend!! I will find the short. I got the bike for nothing It was only $300. I have made my $300 riding this the past 6 months.

 

The Starter's Commutator could be coated with carbon dust from worn-down Brushes.
This condition makes the Starter fail to turn.
Test the Starter independently from Relays or Solenoid to determine if Carbon Dust is shorting the Motor.

 

The starter is working. I have tested it and put it back onto the bike. I found a short in my brake lights and my tag lights. I will fix them in the morning, but to be honest I do not think this is causing the bike to not start. The lights still work fine with the wires I found. They have been cut and smashed together. They were cut from a sharp part on the fender that is on this bike and were rubbing together. Could this stop the bike from starting all together?

 

just a thought, but have you checked the ignition switch for shorts?
or the emg stop switch? all it takes is a little bare wire touching
the wrong thing to cause a sudden loss of elec power.
good luck.

ron

 

I have not found any shorts in the Ignition switch or the other switch, But I have not looked inside the ignition where the key gose and I have yet to check inside the controle of the on off switch.

 

Correct me if I have done this wrong. I hooked up my switch to my solenoid, next I hook my solenoid to ground. I used my circuit tester I have and I plugged one end to my positive then I put it on the positive side of the solenoid. I turn the switch on, and got no light. I also hear no click from it. I think it is the solenoid. I guess I should buy a new one.

One more thing. I bought a new fuse box today. I am a little confused. The new fuse box has a terminal for ground, and then a spot for each positive. Well when I check my main and what I think is the light wires for the ground side my tester light comes on on both sides? I am just wondering if this is normal and How do I determine witch side I need to plug into ground.

Where should I get a new solenoid.

Also the one that is on there was replaced by the person who I got the bike from. It is not stock, and it looks like some thing off a ford and it shouldn't be there.

 

To find which wire goes where, you need to disconnect the battery. Then remove all of the fuses. Then, using your schematic (you do have one right?), check each wire to its reported destination. The HEAD, SIGNAL, and IGNITION all get their voltage from the same place so don't worry about crossing the supply wires for them. And if memory serves, all three circuits use a 10A fuse so you can effectively attach any brown wire to any of the output circuits without issue.
From the sounds of it, your P.O.s hack job is the problem. You might consider nabbing a replacement harness off of flea-bay.
You shouldn't need to attach ground to your new fuse block, just get the power to the side of the fuse and the load to the opposite side of the fuse. Thats it, it's that simple. Be advised, if your fuse block is a common gang supply, you will need to create a separate input for the MAIN line.
The solenoid should not be attached to ground anywhere on the case terminals, that is accomplished back in the wiring WAY downstream. A Ford solenoid will work, you just have to wire it up correctly. Almost any 12V solenoid will work (heck the lawn tractor section at Lowes has them). They are about $10-15 and work just fine. Sing out if you need a schematic or additional assistance.

 

Why don't you return the Fuse Panel you have with the Ground Attachment and a small, replacement for your Bike.

That way, YOU will be able to CORRECT the shortcomings of the PO and have the job done clean and right.

The Fuse Panel being ALL good, strong electrical connections is very important for the performance you expect to get on the Bike.

 

I got a new solenoid and a second fuse box from a guy near me for... 5cents.. He said they are gettong rid of them. I think I got one of the last ones left. I went through and picked out every wire that the po had added and got rid of them. I got about 20ft of wire that was not even needed. I found another switch that was added with a bunch of wire... that was shoved under the tank with the othere wires. I have no idea what it was for.. It didn't go to any thing. It looked like just a switch the po had hooked to some thing but then just disconnected it and didn't feel like removing. It wasn't cuasing a short or anything.. but obviously I do not want it there. I did the carbs a while back ago and didn't see them so they were pretty hidding and wrapped around under the othere wires and it was just a mess. Once I took that all off I put the new fuse box on and the solenoid. The othere solenoid was also wired wrong. The switch was ran to it and the solenoid had a ground ran to it. I didn't understand what was going on untill I got the othere solenoid. The one I had on there had three small connectors and to big ones. I took it off and put the new one on and ran it the way it should be. It is good now. The starter sounds a little different, I am not sure if that is good or bad. But it dosent sound like a bad sound.

Oh and my shematic was missing some stuff to it, so thanks Robert for telling me about the fuses. What I have been looking at only shows the one 20a fuse so I was unsure about the othere three.

I am wanting to strip the bike next year and rebuild it completly. When I have the area to work on the bike. When I do I am going to replace all of the wireing. My lights do not seem as dim now, maybe I am wrong but I think the new fuse box gave me a better connection.

Thanks alot everyone.