How to fix this?...

Hi guys, I posed pics of what I mean, it would seem that the forks are off center, how could I fix this? How dangerous is this?

 

The Center Line is WAY off ...

I think they're BOTH Bent!. That case guard is telling a story!

 

Yes, I know, the PO did not tell me anything and I did not check... Looks to be droped mulitple times...

Is there anyway I could fix it out of shop?

 

The BIG Question is:

What is Bent?

Steering head and frame?
Aluminum sections of the Steering Head?
Lower sections of the Triple-tree?
Fork?
Forks?
ALL of the Above!

If you BOUGHT the bike that way ... and didn't buy it "As is AND with ALL Defects" ... The SELLER is responsible for correcting an: "Undisclosed Major LATENT Defect"

If he sold the bike to you, as a running bike, with an understanding that you intended to ride the bike and didn't bring those issues to your attention; he is responsible for "Correcting the undisclosed defects" and "Rendering the Goods Whole" for failing to disclose any defects.

The moment the transaction was completed and it was understood, by both of you ("A meeting of the minds") that you were buying a running bike; and intended to ride the motorcycle; any "AS IS" Caveat became Void!

He's responsible for fixing the bike ... or,
Refunding your money and Voiding the "Contract" ... Written, Verbal, or Tacit ... what ever the case might be.

He's not allowed to do that under any circumstances.
That you didn't check is immaterial.
That the problem was NOT disclosed is all a Judge needs to hear!
Get an estimate.
Send him a Certified Copy.
Use RED ink.

 

Might be slightly different rules up north Rick. Fair assessment is that the seller was either entirely ignorant or immorally reticent. Either way, I would not be asking him to cover my six again!

 

It looks like the exhaust might even be bent. Did he make any "as is" statement during the sale?

 

If it was sold certified then you have some recourse through the shop that certified it. Likely it was sold "as is" which leaves you SOL and having to fix the issue yourself.

At the very least, you should take the front end apart and see of it is the steering head. Pull the tank and inspect the frame for dents, crumple marks etc. You have to play detective now.

 

I should have gave it a better look over...

The bad news is that even though I have no traces of the emails with the guy, I do believe that it was sold AS-IS so I am up shits creek without a paddle.

No, it was not sold certified, and I assume it would be safe to say that they won't ceritify it in this condition.

I do not see any sort of crumple marks or metal deforminaties in the metal...

The exhausts could be bent, the bike was for sure dropped and there is evidence of damage on the ends of the pipes.

OMG this 'project' gets better and better.

Ok, so I should pull off the front end and see what's going on...

Maybe it would be best to find another frame?

 

Don't worry about the exhaust, I only mentioned that because it would take quite a whack to do both forks and the exhaust as well.

Good luck in your project.

 

Ya I know, what the heck did the PO do? lol.

 

That's my thoughts too. I can't imagine any way to do that to the front end without a horrific wipe out (sideways skid into a curb maybe?). I'd think the wheel would be bent too.

Maybe the obvious things were fixed?

I wouldn't get a frame yet. Shame to put a new frame in it and find out the problem is bent tripple tree or fork tubes.

 

When I pull the tripple tree out, and forks, will it be easy to see if they are bent? Or do I need to get them specially checked?

Also, will I need new bearings or could I just use the old ones(if their not damaged)?

 

might just be the picture but looks like the right lower triple tree is way lower than the left

 

I see that now too, I will measure tomorrow and see whats up.

 

He cannot sell it: "As is" knowing you intended to ride it.

He is Bound by Law to disclose Latent Defects.

"As is" is a euphemism for the Legal Term "As is and with all faults"

You buy EVERYTHING "As is" ... In other words, it may be purchased "as-is", but the buyer is stuck with it only if it substantially conforms to what the seller claimed it to be (an ~> Express warranty or representation may OVERRRIDE a ~> General Express Disclaimer).

Your "Express warranty" is: "Fitness for a Particular Purpose" ...
to wit: Ride the Motorcycle ... Your Honor!

Is there a Lawyer in the house?
If you expect me to quote Case Law in matter before us; I'll be very happy to do so ...

Right after you send me your Full Name and Billing address.
I'd much rather Law Clerk at a couple of hundred bucks an hour; than do Mail Order Carb Cleaning ...

Any day!!!

 

lol.

We see this is how I got the bike...

I posted a "wanted" ad for a PROJECT bike.

Then I recieved a email from some guy saying that he saw the bike, and decided not to take it, and sent me the link to it.

I then went a bought the bike from the guy - I cannot locate the posting of the bike, but I believe he said it was a project bike.

The ownership was not his, he bought the bike from someone else, and said insurance was too high and was selling it for that reason. So he did no register it, and I have not done so either yet (he and I both have bill of sales).

As soon as I said project, that means I was not intending to ride it, and so now I got nothing

 

I've got a parts bike, a Honda V65 Magna 1100 that hit a power pole off a highway, smashing the front end to pieces.

Maybe I should contact the PO of this bike to see if he'll sell it for me? It doesn't seem like he would have any ethical problem with it, perhaps he's a liberal politician?

I can certainly understand how a buyer could miss this on a quick inspection, as was mentioned earlier the obvious parts were probably replaced. I only recently realized that my problems getting my left mirror on my XJ650 to give a similar view to the right mirror are due to the handlebars being bent on the left side.

 

lol, well wise me luck for a quick and easy fix

 

Gotta be a guy out there, someplace, with a froze-up 650 mill, and no-dough for a used engine.

You could use a whole front end.

And, we still have to determine if the Steering Head is where it should be ... or, had been knocked or twisted some.

 

I'll post some more details tomorrow when I take her apart.

 

Big question here is..... How does it ride the way it is?

Does it ride funny... or now that you noticed this does it ride funny in your head?


Just drop it on the other side to even out any damage!!! :lol: :lol:

 

That ran through my mind too lol.

Well I have ridden it a couple of times, and this seems not to effect the driving. But, I think at high speeds she would wobble.

 

Ok guys, some new pics, I got the front completely apart...







(the two above pics I included to see if you guys have the same welds, as far as I can see, my weld beads look nice and solid)







Looks like the stearing bearing has dug into the neck. What to do? Just grind it down so it's smooth? Fill it with some JB weld? Leave it? I looked at the bearings and they all seem good, undamaged, and turn nice and freely.

As far as the triple tree looks, it is fine, I measured the distance from the top one, to the bottom and they were the same, which makes me assume it is ok to conclude that they are ok.

One of the forks appear to be bent, I will take a level or something stright up to it to see whats going on.

Even if one fork was bent, I don't think it would be off like that would it?

If we conclude it is the frame, could I not put a steel bar in the neck and do some smacking to get her lined up? Maybe not perfect, but it would be hell of alot better than the way it is...

Awaiting your responce and advice...

 

wow you win, thats the worst i ever saw
that part with the little dents in it, is that the frame or the lower bearing race?
there was a lower race i hope
you need to get a set of tapered roller bearings, like quick

 

I'm seeing the Right (in photo) Fork Tube seemingly HIGHER than the Left.

That could indicate that ... that one side had a different Tube or the Geometry is Way off ...

This is VERY difficult without examining the bike up-close and being able to eyaball and measure a few things.

With this much on-the-table ... and looking as it does. I'm inclined to say that Steering Head is shot. You need to have that fixed. I think you should start looking for someone in your area who is a "Bike Builder" ... the kind of talent who builds his own frames.

Explain you predicament and inquire about having a new Steering Head made-up and welded on there.

DO NOT hesitate to look for some help from area Vo-Tech Schools.

I can't see any way you can undo this damage. This is THE Central component part that determines how your bike rolls down-the-road.

You can get a good replacement cut-off a scrapped frame and cut-off the tubing and dress where it was welded to be able to have that part "In Hand" when you consult with the frame maker or others.

The bottom line is going to be having a New, Used or Custom-made Head-set ... replace the one on the bike, now.

It's a job that will need the expertise of someone who can do the removal of the ruined part ... and replace that part with a good one correcting the error in Geometry when the replacement part is welded on.
Offer to sweep-up and haul-out the trash at a good "Frame-man's" shop, for a week, to have him set you right.

He's likely to suggest adding a couple of degrees of rake.
Go for it.

 

Ya, it was a bit higher, when I reinstall, there be the same height...

As for the bearing brace, I think it is the frame, but it would be better if it was the brace so I could replace it. I have the tapered roller bearings, they look to be in fine condition which is odd.

I also think someone was in there before because I was missing a bold from the lower tree that holds the fork in...

 

I'm seeing a race in place that has been heavily damaged or a bearing race seat that should not have been used as a race (hard to tell from the photos, sorry). Need to get the ridges filed down and ensure that the race has been replaced. It looks like someone tried to run the bearings without a race or they impacted something so hard that the bearings jumped out of the race and nested against the neck tube. Either rate, you need to measure out the frame and check it for true. Your observation of the missing bolt is very likely and I'd even go so far as to say the front forks may not be the originals (the impact evidence is such that it was a serious hit on the front forks). I'm not seeing any damage at the neck but the photos are just fuzzy enough to make a conclusive call difficult. I wouldn't be to quick to change the neck out just yet. New bearing races can be tapped in rather easily and new bearings are $40 or so. Get the measuring done and compare it with specs. Let us know what you find out.

 

I think I'd try rotating the fork tubes 180 degrees and put it back together. See if your bend moves the other direction and by how much.

 

Compare to the other photos.

These are my Steering Head ... look at the difference.

 

Ahhhhhhhh!!!

Sounds easier just to get a new frame lol.

The neck tube it's self is in fine condition other than the small damage on the top, I have a welder and I guess I could do it myself, but then again someone with experience might be better in this case (only the steering right?) Would it be ok, if everything fails, just to cut it off along the welds, clean it up, and weld it on back straight (or get someone to do it)? I do not really want a new neck, cause then I would need to find the paperwork to go with it and that would be a hassle.

I'll take another look at her tomorrow and see if I see anything else wrong with her...

 

Men:

Look at the Original Photos. Then, look at my Lower Photo.

The Frame is Centered under My Ignition Cover.
The Frame is decidedly Left of the Ignition Cover in the Damage shots.

That there are Ball Bearing kisses on that Upper Race seat STINKS!
That's just somebody being absolutely the worst kind of human to offer a bike for sale.

I contend the SELLER is Guilty of a Major Misrepresentation!
I would, at the very least, send him photographs along with a list of Hard Questions!

The Center line is offset by several degrees.
My suggestion is NOT to try and BEND the Frame.
My suggestion is:

In short.
Weld a new Headset on and correct the Centerline Geometry as its being attached.
. . . . . . .
At the very least; "Cut-through" half the frame -- behind the welds of the Steering Head -- on the side that needs to be pushed-back to the center line.

Heat the opposite side until some hammer blows with the Heavy Plastic Mallet return it to Geometrically correct.
Weld-up the "Gap" caused by moving the Steering Head back to where it belongs.

Dress.
Rattle.
Prime.
Paint.
Assemble.

Ride a safe bike!

 

Ok, that sound like a plan, I'll see what I do tomorrow.

Btw, I was able to get the kisses out of the race with my dremel tool with a grinding stone. Now it's smooth and level.

EDIT: What is the best way to get her stright again? There has to be a more accurate way than eye balling, just take measurements from the frame?

 

Under closer inspection, this bearing looks squished down...



is it?

 

That took a whack, too ... I'll bet.

There's a stress fracture or two starting.

This turns-out to be a pretty ambitious project. I hope you are able to get that Steering Head back true.

You really ought to mark the spots where the Center Stand is on the Floor.
Bring a Straight-edge line forward from the Center of the Rear Tire.


Hang a Plum Line run down through the Steering Head and suspend a real Pointed-end Plumb-bob from the Lower Dead-center of the Head Tube to determine how far out it is off the Center Line.

Since you're going after it "With Gusto" ... there's no reason to just "Eyeball it" and get close enough for Govt. work.

Bring it back over and be sure the TOP is as true as the Bottom of that thing.

It sure is nice to have a MIG and know how to weld-up the relief cut, by yourself. That saved you some BIG Buckeroo's; right there!

 

Ok thanks, I'll get her on some level ground first, and then do some chalk work lol.

Btw, I don't know if it makes a difference, but I do not have a MIG welder, but rather stick welder.

It should still do the job right? I have used it before and know that I can get really good strength out of it.

 

Take all the sensitive Electronic off the bike!

Igniter and Voltage Regulator ... safely on the bench ... before you strike an arc!

 

No problem.

Holy crap, I cut her, and smashed her, and now I think I have it in the right place, but will take some more measurements tomorrow as I am running out of daylight.

She moved 1/4 to 1/2 of a inch over!

Thanks for the help, I'll keep you posted.

EDIT: I need to get steering bearings, will these work on my bike?(81 XJ550 Maxim)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 123&rd=1,1

Also, I now know that someone must have been in there before, not only from the other clues, but the only way that bearing was able to make damage like that was without the race(I think it's called), and when I popped it open, there was no race in there.

 

You can get Brandy New - Sealed Rollers -- Top Quality from a Bearing Supply Outlet. Low Bucks.

While you're there ... see if they have the Large Economy Sized Container of Whup-azz.

I think the guy who sold you that bike needs some!

 

Ya lol.

Ok, I will check the shops out tomorrow...

 

Ok, here she is about straight as I can get it...

 

wow...that was waaaay off.

When you get sealed steering bearing for the 550, let me know what part number bearing you got. I don't know what to get for my ride.

 

Ok, will let you know as soon as I get it.

 

Take it slow and easy; Anthony.
Shoot for absolute perfection.

This repair is going to determine how well the bike is going to steer and track down-the-road.
You won't notice it being a smidge off riding around town.
You will definitely know when you are at highway speed; though.

Double-check the Geometry.
Have an assistant hold it "IN" if it can't be clamped when you "Tack" it.
Weld-up different areas so no one area gets too hot and drifts.

This is a 5-Star Job.
There aren't too many I know who would tackle this kind of repair without "Out-sourcing" the whole job to a pro.

Which ... makes YOU a Pro if you nail getting this project right "On-the-money" -- during your first "At-bat."

I pulling hard for you, Brother!
This is one "For the Books!"

You get my Vote for "Fix of the Year" when this job is history!
Good luck!

Rick

 

Thanks Rick! I tried welding her today, but my welder is giving me some problems, so I have contacted someone that might be able to help me with it.

Also bought a set of bearings and races off ebay for her.

I will keep you posted!

 

first off there are about 3 or 4 things that should have been done before the frame was cut
but thats irrelevant now, the frame is cut and weakened in the worst possible place and without major gussets added by a expert welder, i consider this frame ruined
this is the kind of repair that can get somebody killed, and i don't feel should be encouraged in these forums
good luck, i wish you many good rides, but every time you hit a bump think about that weld

 

I understand your concern completely, this has run through my mind many times, and I have carefully thought it over, checked twice, and talked to others about it and this seems to be the best bet.

This is the best possible place to cut the frame (still leaves original welds intact, and the weight of the bike will be displaced on the bottom parts of the frame evenly), but I do have a expert welder coming over this weekend to weld her up, and reinforce her.

I will always be on the lookout for a new frame, but for now, when the job is done, and done so properly, it will be fine.

Keep ya posted.

 

Polock is right, that looks like a bad place to cut.... but, if properly welded and reinforced, it can be as good as new. I hope your friend has access to a good GMA welder (forget the stick!). Remember to clean the holy sh*t out of the joint... down to absolutely bare metal... if you wanna get crazy, get the dye kit to check for fractures in the weld afterwards. It IS possible to make the weld as strong as the rest of the steel, but only with good preparation and proper welding equipment.

then you'll just have to sweat about all the other welds that got stressed on that frame from the banging and the bending....

 

I will be taking care of that tomorrow, I have dedicated the entire day to cleaning this thing up to be spotless.

I believe the guy coming to weld is going to be using a MIG welder, so I am glad about that. (Their so nice!)

Thanks for the heads up on the metal cleaning! Almost forgot and then would have showed up and that could have become pricey.

I'll post pics when shes all welded up.

 

The job is not done, yet!

There's a great deal of grinding and additional fabrication to yet come.
I'm sure he intendeds to add additional steel before it gets inspected by the DVM.

Perhaps a pair of quadrilateral, open-centered braces, with can be welded-on and the frame made stronger than designed.
"
The frame WAS ruined!
We are in the process of repairing it.

Why don't you scroll-up and see exactly what the suggestions were before The Member decided he was going to attempt this project himself.

Don't bother ... here's exactly what I recommended:

"SEEK THE ADVICE AND ASSISTANCE OF PROFESSIONALS."

He's bringing in a Pro!

We can all relax; now!

 

Ok guys, good news, but no pics yet.

I got the forks straightened out (My dad works as a truck driver, and we needed something heavy so I got him to take a straight truck and drive over them - positioned properly first and man, the whole truck was in the air!! but now they are straight and still work, no damage!.)

I also got the down tubes aligned under the repositioned neck of the bike for better welding, support and look when finished.

Pics to come when all done.