Just got back from looking at a 1979 Kawa KZ400....and HOLY CRAP!

1979 KZ400. Kick and electric start (it needs a battery however). All original. 8,047 original miles. It does run...ish (more in depth on that below). UBER CLEAN (for the most part). Dude was asking $600, I managed to get him down to $500 if I were to buy. There are three reasons why I did not purchase it tonight:

1) I told myself to look at the options! What is available? What are the conditions of all the bikes? Basically, I told myself not to buy the first thing I look at, because it doesn't always turn out so pretty doing so......

2) I did not have my cash on me to buy it.

3) I did not have a way to get it home. I could always rent a UHaul trailer for it, but the issue is that my car is not wired for a trailer yet (I do have the receiver, however).

Like I said, the bike is clean for the most part; the seat pan is rusted a little bit (not worried about), the rear shock springs have surface rust (a little concerned about), and the chain is rusted and loose (this is my biggest concern).

About the engine... HARD STARTING. It fights itself on where it wants to idle (it'll hunt and peck, idle at 1100 some times, hold revs at 3-4k ish other times). He says that if you try to run it for more than 5 ish minutes then the engine will flood out. I asked him what he's done with the bike: he got the bike about 8 or 9 years ago, cleaned the carburetors to get it to run, and that was it, goes out and starts it every now-and-then, but never rode it (he got the bike for free). I asked him if he had done any carb sync work and the answer was no. DING DING DING!!! Found the answer for everything wrong with the bike. My bet is one half the engine wants to rev while the other wants to idle when not on the throttle, and that is why the idle is a hunt and peck issue. That would explain the hard start issue: one half is running lean (from exhaust and intake mods without being rejetted), while the other is running rich as the throttle plate is open probably causing the needle to open if not using the primary jet at "idle". It would explain the flooding situation, one cylinder is getting probably 200% more fuel than the other and that is just a no brainer to what happens when you get too much fuel in the cylinder.....



Other options, this is the first bike I looked at, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is my next bike; All the other bikes in my area seem to have the same issues: "ran when parked ___ years ago", "would make a great parts bike", "no title", "blown motor", or something among the lines of "I have no idea what's wrong with it"...so, uh, yeah.... I'm not gonna lie, this bike is worth the $600 he was asking based on the fact that it not only runs but he also has a title IN HIS NAME! But you know: humans are cheap, we expect perfect things at less than half the value of what the perfect conditioned "thing" is (CL is a perfect example of this).

Best part is: the guy is in no rush to sell it. He saw how ecstatic I was on the condition of the bike overall, that he said if somebody was to drop by tomorrow and wanted to buy it, he would hold off for a few days to let me get first dibs.

 

Done with XJ700 already? Take it from me, focus on getting one bike up and running properly before you bring another project into the family.

 

Looks and sounds like a good deal, but be careful. Two months ago I bought a 1980 KZ550LTD, 14K miles. He was asking $600.00 and I talked him down to $400.00. After I got it home and looked closer, I realized I should have been much closer to $200.00. Spent another $600.00 getting it up to code (the wife wants to ride it) Parts for these are available, but they will *always* cost more than you think. Here is a picture of what it looked like when I got it... looks much better now

 

Nice to see some other Kaw fans on here. I DD an 82 750 LTD right now. Well, not right now since its freezing but all summer. Both those look pretty good, but same story with any older bike, they can need a lot of attention.

Skiprrdog, you done the shims yet? They're fun, have to pull the cams to get them out. Under bucket style.

 

No, I'm not done with it. I love my 700, just want something smaller for commute reasons and that I can ride while getting the XJ all sorted out. I wouldn't really call the KZ a "project" per se, just needs a little TLC and it'll be good to go! Seriously, a carb sync (easy as pie on twin engines) and a battery she'll run great (mechanic agreed and confirmed my theory about the carbs being out of synch when I talked to him earlier today.

What was wrong with it that you did not discover beforehand? As far as parts costing me more thank I think, I went to my mechanic today and had him browse through his massive probably 1000 page catalog of parts and for everything it needs (rear shocks, front and rear tires (I'm gonna get a matching set of newer tires, because the one's on it are at least 8 years old), new chain, air filter, and battery) I will be looking about $411 for parts, and optional ~$40 for the chain install and resize. ... That's assuming I need everything, mechanic said I might be able to salvage the chain and shocks depending on how bad the rust is, which would save me around 150 to 200 bucks.

I planned on $500 for the bike and around 300-500 for parts anyways, so as long as I don't have any pop-up problems, I should be set.

The only way I'll be touching any bike for $200 is one of three reasons: A) no title, B) complete junk/mess (needs reassembly, doesn't run, etc), or C) both! Seriously. I can't even really touch running, titled bike for anything less than $800 in my area, regardless of condition or issues, which sickens me. One guy was trying to sell me a 1984 Shadow 700 for a grand ($1,000) that was a "ran when parked 5 years ago" scenario....my mechanic said he wouldn't pay any more than $50 for that bike

 

Wouldn't skip out on a new chain. Get a good quality x-ring chain. Otherwise, trying to use the old chain will most likely cost you more in the long run. An old, de-rusted, cleaned up chain has a good chance of chewing up your rear sprocket in less than 200 miles. Ask me how I know.

 

I have that pic handy!

 

You know, it's agreements like THIS that make selling a bike difficult. Up here at least...

If a price is declared, negotiations proceed, a new price is agreed upon, AND THEN THE BUYER SAYS, "ok, so.... I don't really have any money right now, give me a few days to think about it" ( loosely translated), the seller is usually pi$$3d-off enough to say, " sure, but unless you give me something right now to hold it, it's gonna be sold to the first person that DOES show up with the original price I asked, you $&"@&$(;:$."

If I negotiate to an agreed price with a seller, I make sure that they at least have SOME $ in their hands, when I leave to get the rest of the $.

Is it a risk to leave a $deposit with a stranger? Of course. We usually do write out an agreement, but more times than not, it's a handshake agreement. Up here, that's still held in very high regard and if someone reneges on it--- whew, the whole county knows quite quickly.

I have NEVER been stiffed on either side of a deal.

Maybe yours is the same, But it didnt come across that way to me....

 

Yeah, I heard that about the under bucket... I measured them, and I have four valves *right on* the lower boundary measurement, so I'm gonna leave it alone for now. I did seem to have a pretty noisy cam chain, and in my first experience putting on a manual (Krieger) cam chain tensioner, all I can say is WOW, what a freaking difference. Cam chain noise all but disappeared, best $38.00 I ever spent. Now it is just down to getting it dialed in, starts but still not running good, feels like carbs, so I might pull them off and give them yet another cleaning.

Yeah, I love the old Kaws... just sold a 1978 KZ1000 I rehabbed, about broke my heart seeing it going down the street.

 

Interesting, the 82 had the improved tensioner that was supposed to correct that. They can be noisy at idle that's for sure.

Nice looking 1000! I sold my 75 Z1 900 years ago to put towards a house, I know that feeling of seeing it leave. Really miss that bike but priorities were changing.

I'm not familiar with the 550, but my 750 has a timing advancer. When that was gummed up, it caused all sorts of drivability issues that I swore were carbs. What carbs are on that?

Quentin, you pick this Kaw up yet?

 

Aye, that I did! Actually, I already dialed in the carbs (bench sync, still need to do a dynamic balance) and ordered the chain for it. It's been getting warmer here, so hopefully the roads will be clear enough to do a test ride when the chain arrives in about a week and a half.

Here's a YouTube vid:


My friend lended me a hand (more like a truck) with getting it home via trailer from UHaul (we were too lazy to remove his canopy and with the lift kit, loading any biker bigger than a dirt bike is a pain). His reaction went from "dude, why are you buying another bike?" to "holy crap! this is a nice bike!" It was hilarious.

I kind of have a love/hate relationship going on with the XJ right now. Been a great bike, blast to ride, but it's a PITA to keep up with. Fix one thing, another thing goes bad. Right now it's not starting...don't know why, it's got spark, it's got fuel (I flooded the engine, based on smell and fuel drenched spark plugs), and it's definitely got compression. Battery was fresh off the tender, it's not like the carbs had a chance to gum up: the fuel is only a month old and I've been firing it up at least once a week to get the fuel flowing through the carbs. Damn thing wouldn't even fire off starting fluid!!! *sigh* maybe it's a good thing that I picked the Kawa up after all!

 

Awesome!

 

Teikei TK-22 carbs.

 

Thx on the KZ...yeah I picked it up cheap with the express intention of fixing it and selling it, but you know how that goes

 

Quentin, a yellowing/bluing indicates most likely a lean condition (running hot). Stock pipes should not yellow (double walled). Also, not sure if putting pods on that bike is good idea. You are setting yourself up for grief. What ever you do, don't throw away the air box. I think they are as rare and in high demand. Check out the KZrider site aobut the pods, you will find lots of information on why not to remove the airbox on this bike.

 

Also, bluing can occur if the inner pipe has separated from the outer pipe....

 

Get that bad boy sorted out and ride it like you rented it!

 

I guess it would be running lean as opposed to rich.... That's what running without proper back pressure and air filter does! I guess I said rich for two reasons: the carbs were horribly out of sync and I was tired.

The main reason why I am thinking about pods is that my bike is missing the rear half of the air box that you slip the air filter into and bolt on to the other half...I'll double check that last statement tomorrow to make sure it's true! Ahaha

 

There are tons of parts for these bikes on fleaBay . When I got my xj750 the previous owner had pods on it, and I got the whole airbox complete with intake boots and clamps.

 

I just happened to find the cover for $20.... Not sure if it's worth 20 when I can get the whole box for 30-50, though....

EDIT: I took another peak at the cover I found on eBay and it will not fit my box. eBay does not have a cover for bike listed, so I'm screwed in terms of air filter with the stock box.

Any body know the rough idea on how to get airboxes out?

 

Never had a 400 so I can't comment on the air box. Join up at kzrider.com, great site with knowledgeable people. I second finding the correct airbox, those are CV carbs and pods will just making tuning worse.

 

Those parts come and go on fleaBay... I keep a bookmark on my desktop for bikes I am working on, and am checking links constantly when I am looking for parts. If you have not already, join kzrider.com...might find an airbox there from a member. I don't know about the 400, but on my 550 LTD the box is pretty easy to get out, you'll have to remove the carbs, either take the ducts off or push them into the box, and you should be able to wiggle it out. Be thankful it is not an early 1980's XJ bike. You are faced with the choice of removing the engine, or some guys on here heat them up with a heat gun and fold them to get them out!

 

Guys, I understand the importance of going with the stock airbox, especially on these old CV carburetor bikes; however, you must also understand that virtually every KZ400 and KZ440 with this particular airbox do not have the COMPLETE airbox. I've looked everywhere and so have several other people. The part that I am missing, dubbed the "snorkel" (part 11012), literally cannot be found. It's like hen's teeth, they're just non-existent. Some guy spent around 2 days calling every salvage yard, parts dealer, and vintage bike shop in all of Canada and the US of A, all the shops joked about how they get the same question like 100 times a day. You would think that after producing 220 thousand bikes, at least one would have the snorkel and at least one of those snorkels can be found at any given time on eBay. This begs the question: where did they all go? If they all keep breaking, I would expect that some company produced some sort of aftermarket version (or OEM copy) at least once at some point in time!

I can buy any one of around 30 "complete" airboxes for the KZ400/440, ABSOLUTELY NONE OF THEM have the snorkel!! Without the snorkel, the air box is useless: it won't give the proper backpressure and it won't even hold an air filter. (see picture). I could always try fabricating my own, but I have absolutely ZERO fabrication skill. I might take the airbox to a metal fab shop, see if they can make me a replica out of aluminum or something. Might cost 50 to 100 dollars, but I I would rather not have the headache of trying to perfect the carb jetting for pods (and it would save money in the long run and give some more "value" to the bike overall).



SIDE NOTE: I found the way to get the box out and it was a lot easier than everyone made it out to be. I didn't have to remove the carbs; I didn't have to remove the engine (or lower it or manipulate it forward); It wasn't even a "snug" ordeal sliding out of the frame. Literally, ALL I had to do, was unscrew the clamps on the air intake carb boots and remove the battery box and the airbox pulled back and up out of the seat "cavity", didn't fight it at all and nice and smooth like a greased pig!!

 

Good deal on the removal but bummer on the availability. I hate when that happens.

 

IKR! I printed out the exploded diagram of the air box and will drop by a few metal shops around town and see if they might be able to fab me another one made out of aluminum (rather than plastic). I found out why they are non-existent: virtually no one knew how to install the filters properly so the snorkels would always break off (and thus get thrown away...or lost somewhere on the road). After looking at previous sales made on eBay for this snorkel, they usually went for around 70 to a 100 bucks anyways, so if it only costs me $50 to have one fabbed, I'm actually saving time and money (and the hassle of looking for one). It shouldn't be that hard to make, it's basically just a 4.5 x 6 inch rectangle with two one inch holes drilled on one side and let completely exposed on the other side, with a 1/2 inch overhang for the mounting bolts. I could probably making one out of wood if it came down to it, but having wood in an area which is wide open for flames is a very bad idea (in case the bike decides to cough through the carburetor).

 

I have an 81 440 getting worked on as well! the guy I bought it from fabricated a type of airbox when its done getting worked on ill snap some pics. I too bought in hopes of riding it while I worked on my XJ but it needed more work than I expected and I ended up with two projects. sad face

 

Is this the airbox thing you are talking about?

EDIT: Yeah mine needs somewhat more then I thought it initially needed. Currently trying to track down a vacuum leak which I think is probably the left cylinder carb boot gasket. Thank god these bikes are a breeze to work on compared to them 4 cylinder bikes!!

 

well after looking at the thread on a different comp all the images are showing and apparently I have something quite close to the original i'll have to post a pic when I get to the bike having some ignition issues now. I agree having to only deal with two set of carb boots is way easier lol

 

And the generous amount of room you have to wiggle the carbs out of when you need to remove them (after loosen the airbox to frame bolts). I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the fact that I can always remove the battery box to remove the air box and then have way more room to play with the carbs than I need! MUCH easier to get everything to line back up too! The only thing I hate about this bike is the idle speed adjuster: the one that came on the bike had the cable unraveling so turning the screw didn't do squat and I think the replacement I got is doing the same.

If money weren't an issue, I'd do the single carb manifold in a heart beat (next thing on my list for this bike once I get some funds!)