Learn to Suffer - rebuild nightmare

Never mind the broken cam bolt and $ 75 that cost.....
Never mind the hours of work gone to waste.......
Never mind the pain of failure.......

Sometimes you have to learn the hard way that some things that seem like a good idea ARE NOT.

My 82 550 Seca owed me nothing since I purchased in '87 for $ 850 with 4,500 km on the clock and slowly drove it into the ground over 17 years. Four years ago I missed riding after 1 season's absence and eventually got a newer, bigger bike, but I decided to resurrect the Seca from the near dead 2 years ago at 53,000 km mainly because my wife wanted to learn to ride.

I put it back together and got it running for a couple hundred $ in parts and what not, but it never ran or idled right, and I decided (after reading many inspiring posts) that it was worth a little more time, effort, and $ to bring her back to running well and reliably. After noticing slow but constant oil leaking, I decided that this winter was the time to rebuild and do carbs top to bottom, re-shim valves, replace valve seals, and re-gasket everything to stop the leaks and go from there.

Despite being careful and thorough, I must have used the wrong seals between the cylinder head and block (NOTE : Parts N' More top end kit gaskets and seals do not all match size and shape of originals !!! - and no reference diagrams or anything are provided in the kit OR service manual) because when I tried to fire it up after countless reassembling hours, it fired but leaked like a sieve on the right side where the oil galleries leading to the head meet the head/jug interface.

Needless to say, I'm frustrated beyond belief......I should have lived with the oil leaking and done carbs and valve shims only, and not bothered with the rest. Now I have a bike that doesn't run that the wife was riding with her learners permit and was supposed to use it get her final licence test (not to mention I was riding it a lot too - especially to work).

Anyway, my questions to those that know better that I are:

- Should I give up and just part it out ? Even if it were mechanically A1, its still rough cosmetically and would consume several hundred $ more to
get it decent looking (I've already done carbs, valve seals, valve lapping, re-shimmed valves to spec; etc., not to mention some nice cover polishing)

- Is it possible to remove the cylinder head (after carb, exhaust and valve cover removal of course) WITHOUT removing the engine from the frame ?? Chacal, Rick, anyone ?? If I have to remove engine from the frame again (3rd time in less than 2 years) I think I'd rather roll myself and the bike right off a cliff...

Anyway, I'd really like to hear from the experts about the best way out of this mess, since I've already thrown hundreds out the window (dollars AND hours) and I may need to cut my losses. I either need to get the RIGHT seals in place while minimizing suffering (there has already been way too much), or just quit in disgrace and offer up the parts. It's a crying shame, since even with 60,000 km (38,000 mi) on the bike, those "every 1,000 km" oil changes and sedate riding I did over the last 20 years have resulted in an amazingly intact and lighty-worn engine.

So, if anyone can offer advice, I'd like to hear it. Sorry about the long post but its just SO frustrating.......

 

Yes, you should be able to get the head off w/o removing the engine from the bike. You MAY have to let loose the front engine mounting bolts to let the front of the engine "sag", but probably not.

 

550 Seca, right? You can EASILY pull the head with the motor in the frame, you don't even have to loosen it there is plenty o' room.

Sounds like they gave you the wrong size/type of o-rings for the job.

Also make sure all of the "dowel pins" (locating rings) are in place, their placement is NOT symmetrical.

In my COMPLETELY UNBIASED opinion, you should definitely NOT give up and part it out. It sounds like you've come a long way, done a lot of work and are nearly there. You already know the history of the bike, what was and wasn't done, so it should hold few actual "mysteries" just the usual "XJ rude surprises."

Once again (from an obviously neutral viewpoint of course) I personally feel that a complete, running 550 Seca is a much better outcome than a whole bunch more parts up on eBay.

Keep it and finish it.

 

Make arrangements to send it over to Fitz in MI for a complete restore - if you act early you can probably book him in time for scheduling next winter's project. I notice the photo's of his bikes all look like they never left the showroom - I'm envious.

 

BUILD HER BACK UP, youve put to much effort in to getting this far i know i would be sick to my stomach after i put that much effort and time in to her then sold it. keep trying! does it absolutly have to be running this instant? if not just take it slow may take a while but youll get there. im behind schedual on mine for may 1st. i still have to paint and reassemble but i need a paint gun and a bunch of other things that require money.

the gasket set was it purchased off ebay? or did you buy it from a store? because if you bought it from a store i would demand money back if they told you it was the right one. i even think ebay's buyer protection program might get your money back aswell.

just a thought but a little more hassel.

keep trying youll get it done. take you time im an impatient person and ive noticed that taking my time makes things go faster in the long run because often i forget to put some thing back in and i have to tear everything apart again to get that little part where it needs to be. it could be worse you could have a garage full of parts and not know where to start (woops) lol

 

Thanks everyone for all your feedback. Bigfitz, you mentioned the dowel locating pins - I kept them in the same location and orientation when reassembling, but I could not find o-rings in the gasket kit that looked the same as those that came out. Now I'm confused - there are 3 dowels, two of which are for the oil galleries to the head (brass washers) and the third on the exhaust side stud between cylinders 3 and 4 (see attached pic from the service manual). Are there o-rings on all three or just the outside two ? And do you or anyone else have a pic of what they all should look like ? - some in my "kit" were black, others were orange, but originals were black I'm sure. I'll see if I can order the correct ones from somewhere. If the engine can stay in the frame it will cut my work in half - so at least this is good news.

 

4nik.....the "seals" that go over those dowel pins on top of the jugs are NOT o-rings, but instead are rather thick (2-3mm tall) rubber "sleeves". I don't know what o-rings you were provided with or used, but at the bottom of the #4 outer (front and rear) cylinder STUDS (where they are screwed into the top half of the upper crankcase), there are two small o-rings that sit in a recess in the upper crankcase.

I do carry the correct seals for that cylinder jug-to-head interface. Drop me a PM if interested.

 

You are right, of course - the manual refers to them as "o-rings" but they are rubber sleeves. These were included in the kit, but were a different size and shape than the ones that came out - to make it more confusing, there were two, and only two, that were similar in the kit to those that came out - but they were not identical to each other. One was as you describe - a rubber sleeve about 3 or 4mm tall, but the other was shorter, thicker, and had a mushroom like top. I put both of them in - looks like the mushroom one was an improper fit. I really wondered about that - why the two that came out were identical, while the two that were provided were both different from the ones that came out AND from each other ?? ARRRGGG !!

I take it there is no o-ring needed over the sleeve on the stud between 3 and 4 ?

Looks like I'll PM you for the correct ones. Many thanks

 

No, no o-rings for any other dowel pins on top of the jugs......only the two far outer right-side pins use those gaskets.

 

Re: Learn to Suffer - rebuild nightmare - UPDATE

UPDATE - the carbs, exhaust, cams, etc. all came off OK, and the misfitted seal was replaced. BUT suffering continued - all because one of the valve shims got knocked out of the lifter and where do you think it went ? that's right - right down the cam chain passage !!@$@$!!

SO - after spending an hour trying to fish it out with a small magnet attached to a metal meat skewer, only to find it disappear out of sight - it was back to draining oil, removing the bottom cover, and blindly groping around the crankshaft counterweight until I could find it - thankfully I did.

Now the bike is all back together and running, but not as nice as I'd hoped. Valves are all within spec, carbs bench synced and "church of Clean" clean, but I'll have to try some adjustments once I locate (or make) a YICS tool. Although my exhaust is not stock (4 into 1 Gemini), it always idled OK without jet change until recent years (07, 08). Now, it still seems to run lean on idle circuit despite the overhaul, won't idle below 1400, and plug chops show white to light grey. Pulls nicely from 3000 on, no stumble or hesitation - but idle is not right. Started at 3 turns out, moved gradually up to 4 then 4.5 without any noticable difference.

Any ideas what to check (after proper sync) ?

 

Get a YICS tool and do a proper synch with the tool in place. For extra points, use a colortune plug and repeat the synch >> colortune >> synch >> colortune >> synch process about 3 times over. Then it should purr like a kitten.

Out-of-synch conditions cause all sorts of "problems" that magically dissapear once the engine is truly in synch. A YICS tools is necessary to achieve that proper synch.

 

This man speaks truth. Trying to balance a set of carbs without the YICS tool is a nightmare.