Maxim-X Still Not Starting

OK. Again, I'm a complete newbie to motorcycle mechanics. Don't know much about auto mechanics, either. But I learn...

Here's what I did. I bought this bike about a month ago. It was running, but the guy said it was rough and that #2 and #3 carbs were not working well (cool pipes, is what he told me). But, he started it and even rode it while I was there (I didn't, as at the time I didn't know how to ride a motorcycle).

So, I brought it home and pulled out the carbs. No problem. I take them apart and clean them up real well. Put them back together with some new gaskets, and reinstalled. #3 overflowed like crazy. Tapping didn't help.

So, I took them off again. Pulled them apart, and after a great discussion with RickCoMatic, I do a fuel level check. The bottom of the fuel meniscus was right at the seam between the washer and the screw on the float bowls. Looks good, says I. Yay! No float height adjustment needed.

So, after adjusting the idle screw a bit, I put the things back on, and release the fuel. NO LEAKS! Sweet!

But, alas, no start. It cranks. And cranks. And cranks. But nothing catches.

What should I do next? I tried pulling the spark plug caps off, because I couldn't think of anything intelligent to do at that point, and that seemed like something a competent person would do. The wire came out of the cap. Dang! Pulled the cap off, then I didn't know what to look at. Not sure where to go from here.

Would a bike crank if the plugs are bad? BTW, the wires seem to be hot, as the one that was pulled out shocked me when I was sitting on the bike.

Please help. I'm getting less and less motivated and my wife is beginning to look at me like I just wasted $1,000. I'm beginning to wonder if I have, too.

 

tell her that you didnt waste a grand. you made a redirection of funds to assist your family in a tight economy.


now, to your starting issue...
first, the wire. the good news: it can be fixed. where did the wire break? if it is close to metal in the boot, it can be fixed on the cheap. just make sure you have enough slack still. second, just slide it back in the boot as firm as possible. it will fire.
mine #1 is broken, but getting by till I splice wires in the coils.

if it will only crank, and not fire, you need to determine where the issue is.
first, try starting fluid. see if it will fire with a quick squirt of that.
does it? cool. no? ugh.

if it does, you have a delivery issue with fuel more than likely, especially since you just rebuilt the carbs.
take your idle screws and reset them all the way in till they bottom out. don't force them in. just back them out from there to 2.5 turns.
see if it will start.

it probably wouldnt hurt to get new plugs in it anyway. be sure to pick up some antiseize and put a little on the plugs. gap is .032

when you cleaned the carbs, did you follow Rick's carb guide? what about a bench sync?

start there and report back. if your wife keeps giving you a hard time, I will gladly talk to her and smooth it over. :lol:

 

The first thing I would do is make sure you haven't blown any fuses.

The second thing I would do is make sure the battery is completely charged up.

The third thing I would do is check the plugs. You have to pull the plug wires by firmly grasping the boot and pulling straight off of the plug. Remove the plugs and make sure they aren't fouled. They probably are since the bike wasn't running on all cylinders in the first place.

Once you have a plug pulled out of the engine, reconnect it to the spark plug wire and ground the plug on the engine. At that point, you can crank the engine and make sure that plug is getting spark. Do the same for all the plugs.

If you can verify that you have spark, I would look at the carbs again. How well did you really clean them? Did you make sure every single jet was unobstructed? Did you make sure all signs of varnish were removed internally? Did you clean the fuel tank out? Are you using fresh gas? Are all of your hoses properly hooked up? Gas and vacuum?

 

Another thing. If you don't feel you can tackle the job yourself, there is a shop in town that will work on that bike for you. I can't speak to their prices or their quality of work, but I know they always have bikes in their lot and they will work on that older bike. I was getting ready to take my 81 550 Maxim there until I decided to completely rebuild my carbs on my own.

Look up MFI on Park Lane. They are right up the road from the driver's license office when you turn off of Miller road.

 

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it! I should mention, I don't think the wire to the plug boots broke. It is like it just popped out? There is a little "stud" or something inside the top of the boot that the wire slides onto. So, I just jammed it back on and twisted it a bit. It isn't pulling off easily, now. Not sure what to think of it.

In any case, when I crank, I can hear the click, click, click of the engine sparking. Not sure if the plugs are working, but the engine is putting some spark. I'll pull the plugs, and put new in. I'll see about checking them against the case of the engine to see if I can see a spark.

As for delivery, I'm not even sure how the fuel is delivered to the engine. When I cleaned it, I put all the cleaned jets to the light, and they were all unobstructed. I could also see light at the bottom of the enrichment circuit. I did follow Rick's excellent tutorial. I also bench synced the butterflies and tested the float/fuel level. All was right on the money. Not saying it is not the problem, but at this point, I'm going to proceed as if it isn't. I'll be hooking up the airbox boots tonight, since I'm not planning to take the carbs off for a while.

Now, I've had a trickle charger on the battery all day. Should be good to go. I'll check the fuses, but I'm not exactly sure where to look. Behind the switch plate?

Also, I haven't been able to figure out how to remove the dumb plugs. I've tried 5/8" plug sockets, and they don't do the trick. I've also tried 3/4", and they don't do it. Is there some trick to getting those suckers out?

 

And thanks for the lead on the mech. I may end up going that route. If I do, I'll be calling you, Helmet, so that you can explain the intricacies of the economy to my wife! LOL

 

:lol:

I will be glad to talk to her about it.

 

Pull a Plug Cap and use a Test Plug to see if there is Spark.
If there's Spark ... Shoot some Starting Fluid in the AirBox.
If it "Pops" ... it's a Fuel situation.

If nothing happens ... It's Ignition related.

 

JVSWAN

I'm in Havelock, If you want to PM me your phone numbe I'd be glad to try and help you out. Between my friend and I we have 6 of these so we kind of know our way around them.

 

The plug wires on the X are actually "screwed on" to the spark plug caps.
Best thing to do is cut about 1/4" of the old wire off and then screw them back onto the plug caps (actually screw the caps onto the wires).

The spark plugs are most likely 18mm but some sockets are too big on the OD to fit.
A craftsman 18mm deep well will fit in the hole.
I have found a set of plugs that took a 16mm socket but that's rare I believe.

Back to the gas question:
Do you have an inline filter between the petcock and the carbs?
Are you SURE you hooked the hoses up to the correct part of the petcock?
Did you put the petcock on PRIME to make sure the carbs are completely full of gas (the petcock won't open completely until you are running) and it won't let enough gas down to fill the bowls.

The fuses (which isn't your problem I don't think) are under the plastic cover surrounding the ignition key (where the idicator lights are)

That should keep you busy for a little while.
Report back with your findings and we can dig a bit deeper.

When you worked on the carbs, did you pull the mixture screws out? and/or did you mess with the screws on the throttle shafts?

 

OK. Here's what happened. Rick has been awesome by talking me through things on the phone. I got kind of excited when he said "What??? Why didn't you mention that before???" See, the PO had removed the airbox boots and another buddy told me that I shouldn't hook them up again until I was sure the carbs were working and the bike starts. So, they haven't been hooked up. I though "YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!" Thinking that might be the problem, I got right to it. Two hours later (those things REALLY suck), I have them on and clamped to the carbs.

Then, I check for spark. I took one of the new plugs (18mm, btw, which I why my 5/8" and 3/4" wouldn't work, D'OH!) and stuck it in each of the caps. Turned on the ignition, pressed the starter, and each of them was like a little blue sparkler. Lots of sparks. So, I screw 'em in (didn't forget the anti-seize compound) and hook 'em up.

After that, I hooked up the petcock with the fuel line attached to the downstream side of an inline fuel filter and the small black hose coming from #2 manifold to the back-side of the petcock. I screw the tank back in place, and double check the fuel. Yup, there's some in there.

Moment of truth. Everything back in place where it should be. I get on the bike, turn the petcock to PRI, turn on the ignition, run through the gears, just for fun, stop in neutral, put choke on full, and press the button.

No go. Cranks, but no start. Not even a cough. BTW, I don't have any starter fluid, so I haven't tried that. The PO was using some when I bought it. Said it was to show me how it is supposed to sound when it is running right. I wonder if that is how he got it going in the first place. Maybe, in my ignorance, I got kind of suckered.

I'm fried right now. It is late, my knuckles are bloody, and my fingers are sore. So I'm turning in. If y'all have any suggestions, I'm wide open. Wingnut, I'll shoot you a PM as soon as I submit this post. I can't tell you how much I would appreciate someone who can look at the bike and help me figure it out. Frankly, I'm way out of my element at this point. I'm learning, but I'd like to be able to ride this thing before I learn all the dang systems!

Y'all are great. Thanks for sticking with me on this.

 

Change out the in-line fuel filter, I have found when you have had the tank on & off a few times, it can stir up crud & it all ends up in the in-line.
Double check you have the plug leads to the right cylinders, it's easy to get them crossed under the frame.
Make sure the battery is fully charged, 12.6v.
Then if all that is ok, give it a shot of easy start.

 

Having Spark is a good thing!
Why it won't go ... that we need to jump on.

Let's do some testing:
Shoot some Starting Fluid, Carb Cleaner or Propane Gas from your un-lit Torch right into the Airbox Intake.
Try it.
See if she wants to go. With SPARK ... something should happen!

Put the Petcock on PRIME.
Hook-up your Float Level Check Hose to the #-1 Fuel Bowl and OPEN the Drain Screw.
See if you have Gas in the #-1 Fuel Bowl.
On Prime ... Gas should drain from the N0.-1 Carb

Test with Bike on Ctr Stand
Side stand raised.

 

you are on the right path to getting this ride running...

I'm sure someone mentioned it to you, but make sure the coils are on right.

left side coil is for 1 and 4.
right side for 2 and 3

next, as mentioned, check your battery. these things are very very touchy to low voltage. anything under spec and they will crank all day without firing.

you didnt mention if you changed your plugs. if they are old and have been sitting a while, it won't fire easily.
try to fire it without the choke, errr, enrichment circuit on. if anything, with the throttle closed, slowly increase it and see what happens. again- very touchy.
when you pulled the carbs, did you thoroughly clean the pilot passages?
what about the sync? did you happen to break the rack and/or pull the butterflies out? a quick bench sync will be in order. Rick uses a business card, but I prefer a twist tie with the paper torn off. the metal wont give and will provide a little more accurate reading.
lastly, did you reset the idle screws? if you did and it still wont fire up, back them out about 1/8-1/4 turn each between cranks. if your pilot passages have any crud in them, you probably arent getting enough fuel. backing the screws out slowly will assist in getting enough fuel to the chamber. if they are completely plugged (which is probably why 2 cylinders were cold) you won't get it fired to save your life unless you use starting fluid.
when it did run, how was the idle? if it's really rough and wont go below about 1400 rpm, your problem is in the idle circuits.

good luck. make sure the wife knows I'm calling.

 

Reading this post, I'm trying to think of something these guys might have missed. As with every post with this many replies from members such as this, I can't think of anything.

My x didn't want to start unless I gave it gas WITH the choke on. My problem? I found I was running way lean. I adjusted the mixture screws (in front of the actual carb, right behind the rubber boot that mounts to the engine, it's brass) out about a turn and she's been good to go since. I'd also check the idle adjustment.

I'm betting it is either your mixture screws or something in your pilot jets.

Don't give up, once you have it figured out, you'll have one more piece to the puzzle. I think carbs on these bikes is nothing short of a right of passage for their owners.

 

Hey guys, I took the day off yesterday to let things cook in my brain. Today, I'll get a can of starting fluid, and see if that will help. Quick question... Do I just spray the stuff into the "vent" hose thing beneath the seat? Or should I take the lid off and the filter out?

I do think the leads are correct. Long caps on #2 and #2, short caps on #1 and #4. That is how they were when I took them off.

I'll also double check the fuel level in #1 bowl and I'll put another fuel filter on my shopping list.

Where are the coils, and how do I check them, Helmet?

I have the charger on the battery. I have also been jumping from my car battery when it seems like the bike's battery gets low (which doesn't take long when I'm trying to crank it over).

When I pulled the carbs, I did not break them apart. I did bench sync them, though, using Rick's card-stock trick. Near as I can tell, they are all balanced and aligned. I also took car to clear out the enrichment circuits and verified by holding them to the light. I was able to see some light in the bottom of the hole on them all. I also blew them out with air when I dried everything off.

When I tried starting them on Saturday, I started backing out the screws. I initially set them to what I thought was 2.5 turns out. Never done it, but I think I had it right. I started backing out a bit at a time. Then, when the bike still wouldn't start, I backed them out to about 4 or 5 turns. No change. To be honest, I don't recall how it ran when I got it. I didn't know enough to understand what it should sound like or where it should idle. D'OH!

I replaced the plugs with the last four available at my AutoZone.

So, in a perfect world, I would rule all this stuff out, since I've worked on it all, and set everything up as well as I could. However, realistically, something might have gone awry and is no longer in as good of condition as I thought. Might be a combination of factors. I mean, the only three things that are needed for ignition are air, fuel, and spark, right? Pilot mixture screws adjust air at idle, right? I've got my box hooked up, otherwise (the filter is saturated with oil or fuel, though... The fame says oil before using, so I kind of figure it should be like that, no?). I'm reasonably certain the carbs are getting fuel. Whether the fuel is getting to the engine, I don't know. Not sure how to verify that. And I've got spark.

So, I'll see what some starting fluid does. Maybe that will tell us something.

As for a right of passage, couldn't I just walk over a bed of coals, be dropped off naked in the middle of a baren desert for a week, or something else? Sheesh!

 

I am concerned with your over-saturation of oil on the filter.
the oil should be a light coating only.
i would pull it out, spray some fluid in and see if fires.
did Rick have you check the float levels on the carbs? what were the plugs like that you took out?

 

If you didn't even take the carbs apart to clean them, you haven't cleaned the carbs well enough. I don't mean seperate each carb from the other, just taken each one apart to get to the insides. I'm not sure if you did or you didn't do that. It sounds like you did, then you say you didn't. There is no way around it, if you truly want to get the bike running properly you have to properly clean the carbs.

 

I'll try starting without the air filter. I've never seen one like it, so I don't know how much oil is in it. But it seems pretty thick. It is kind of heavy, too. Not dripping, though.

I did take the carbs apart. Everything that can come out of them, I took off. Cleaned all the jets and verified that they were clear. I just did not break apart the rack. So, I didn't take out the butterflies, either. But, those were moving pretty smoothly and they were not dirty or encrusted. I squirted the rack and valves and stuff down with carb cleaner, but only let it sit for about 15 to 20 minutes, before scrubbing and rinsing. Then, I let it soak in hot Pine Sol for a couple of hours. That was the extent of my rack cleaning.

The bowls, pistons, springs, screws, and jets were all removed and similarly treated. Finally, everything was blown out with compressed air. All fuel channels were blown out with compressed air, as well, to make sure they were dry and to verify that they were not plugged.

I'll let y'all know how things go with starter fluid. Keeping fingers crossed!

 

Also, one and four plugs were black and crusty on the tips. Two and three plugs were reasonably clean. The threads were full of sand, so I imagine the wells that the plugs sit in were really grimy. The whoe engine could do with a good cleaning. But first, I wanna hear it it make some noise. The good kind of noise!

 

Spray Starting Fluid right into the Airbox through the Rubber Intake Opening.

If the Air Cleaner is Oiled ... remove the Air Cleaner for Testing before closing the Box and spraying the Start Fluid.

If we don't get the Engine to "Pop" (Sputter or Start) after introducing the Starter Fluid we have to begin a thorough troubleshooting beginning with a Compression Check.

 

Well, happy day! I wasn't able to stop and get the starter fluid, ran out of time tonight. But, I thought I'd try again to start it (hope springs eternal!) and it did! But, it immediately jumped up to what sounded like 8,000 or 9,000 rpm, so I killed it. It might have been more like 5,000 or 6,000. Dang, those 4 in 1 pipes are loud. I thought I was going to wake the neighbors doing this at 9pm. But, I couldn't help myself... I did it again, just to see if I was hallucinating! Nope, it started immediately the second time. And the third time! LOL Still, it was revving way high, but at least I know the engine works. Not sure why it kicked in, all of a sudden. Maybe the gremlins took the night off.

Anyway, I was on the phone immediately with Rick (great guy, BTW!) and he suggested checking my throttle linkage to see if it is stuck or hanging on something. I'll check tomorrow. Then, I'll screw my pilot mixture screws back in, and start back at 2.5 turns out.

Not sure what happened, but I'm dang glad to hear that this bike... is... ALIIIIVE!

 

awesome!!! if the linkage isnt bound up, turn your idle screw back till you hit roughly 1050rpm. let it idle a minute and check the plugs.
if they are caramel in color, you should be good. next try a plug chop and see how they look.
they should be a nice even tan/caramel across all 4.
enjoy the riding!

 

OK.
Good. You got it running.
I know that feels REAL good.
REAL good, ... because a lot of doubt goes away.
The BIG worries are dispelled.
Very good.

High revving.
Either the Throttles Plates are Open and letting the Bike run on Main Fuel Supply
-OR-
You got Extra Gas and Air getting-in ... to sustain 3K rpm's

Undo the Throttle Linkage from the Cable
Back-Off the Idle Adjustment Rod
See if it still wants to High Rev
If it does, ... Press down on the Number-2 Sync Screw.
If the Bike loses Rpm's with pressure on the linkage, ...
The Throttle Shaft Seals are likely to be leaking-by.
Spray Starter Fluid on the Shaft Bearing Points and listen for rev's.

If its NOT the Throttle Shaft Seals ...
Work each Manifold back from the Head looking for some Air Leak

We've been seeing a lot of Manifold -to- Head leaks.
Use the Spray and see if you can find the leak.

The Manifold -to- Head Leak can be hard to detect.
There's some indication that the Manifold needs increased Manifold Vacuum to get detected.

Do not despair.
Before you heard that 4-Banger growling you were in the Troubleshooting Department with lights off and not able to find the switch.

Now your in the Tuning Department and just need to get a couple of stuck windows closed.

 

this is good stuff. I will have to remember this!

 

Rick, I'd check the idle setting right off the bat. I've had it happen more times than not that that was the issue. With me trying to get one of these beasts to turn over, I'll mess with the idle setting and she'll rev way high. The other issue I came on is the throttle cable being routed wrong.

Rick knows his stuff though. I'd say you are in for an entire break down of the carbs agian. It is nothing for a seasoned wrencher to pull the carbs three and four times before they come out right. I'm still trying to get it down.

Glad to hear that you got her going. I'd drain the oil and change the filter (let it drain overnight) next now since you heard it is really alive. This is just the beginning, these things go through love hate relationships...I love to hate mine and hate to love it sometimes....

 

Most excellent! Thanks for all the advice. I really do appreciate y'all hangin' in there with me.

It is making me crazy, going to work at 7 am and knowing that I won't be able to try the bike again until I get home tonight... Dang! Might have to take an extended lunch break.

I'll back off the idle adjustment first, then try it with disconnected throttle cable to see if that is the source of the high rpm. I'll go through the steps y'all are suggesting and report back.

BTW, when you mention a "plug chop," does that mean rev it up in neutral to 4k or 5k for 20 or 30 seconds, then cut it off and check the color of the plugs?

 

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the help. Rick, you da man! Thanks for letting me pull your ear on the phone. Got 'er running at a solid 1k during idle. I backed the idle adjustment off a bit, and that is all it took. Sounds good at low rpm, but wingnut tells me there is a bit of a catch going into higher rpms. Still, all four cylinders are firing, and I rode it for the first time. It was awesome!

I've got a few minor things to work on before I can take it out of the neighborhood, but man! it is almost there! I'm stoked. Thanks to Wingnut, too, for coming over and giving me a walk-through on the bike. He helped explain a lot of things that I was wondering about.

Looking forward to syncing and tuning the carbs, next. First, though, I'm going to ride it a bit and get to know it.

 

plug chop is done under load. as you are coming to your drive, have it running about 4k, then pull the clutch and kill it at the same time. coast in to the drive, and eat some dinner. when it is cooled off, pull the plugs and have a look. this will give you an idea of how it is burning fuel under load conditions. they should be even color across them. if they arent, it can open a pandora's box of things to look at, but don't fret. rick and the masses here can help.

if you are getting a "catch", where is it happening? off-idle? upper-range?

if it is off-idle that you are seeing the "catch" or sluggish response from idle to about 1400-1500, you will need to adjust your idle screws some. start at the basic 2.5 turns and then go no more than a few degrees out at a time. check the plugs at idle to see if it's lean/rich on certain ones. a small turn on those screws goes a VERY long way. if you have a vac gauge, even better. you can hook up to the vac ports on the manifold boots and adjust it to near perfection.

 

Jason it was good to meet you. You have a nice machine there. A little rubbing and some checking and it will be a reliable and good looking ride. Get some tires and check the brakes. Run it a few miles to let every thing settle back in and we will do the carb sync and finial idle mixture adjustments. Let me know when you are ready. After that we ride!

 

Really glad it was something simple. Careful on her, mine still suprises the hell out of me sometimes and I've been riding since 92.

 

if yours has too much power for ya, I will gladly take it off your hand

 

Helmet, you want one? I've got an 86 that isn't in too bad a shape. She runs too! I need to make room, especially if I get that fz700.

Oh, we need one more thing out of jvswan...PICTURES! I can't stand it when one forum member gets to see the bike and says it's nice....I want to see it!!

 

an X has been my dream since high school, but I dont think the wife will go for it... especially since I am buying a new LCD TV and surround sound this weekend.
how much do you want for it?

 

You have to "Make it easy" to do Tuning Tweaks.

Factory Bikes don't have an extra inch of Gas Line or Vacuum Hose on them to make it easy to lift the Tank and get to the Carb Adjustments.

Adding a little length to those "Under Tank" hook-ups makes it easy to access the Syncs and Mixture Screws.
Just be careful not to add too much length to avoid possible kinking.

I had to add 4-1/2 Inches of Gas Line and Vacuum Hose to be able to avoid not having to unhook things for a Tweak Session.
I defeated the dreadful "Hose Kink" by fashioning a Hose Guide out of a length of Coat Hanger and using "Spiral Cable Wrap" to attach the form wire and dress it up.

You should also make a "Tweaking Tool"
Get the "Pocket Clip" Mini-screwdriver from SEARS.
Hacksaw off the Plastic Handle shortening the Grip to where the Shank ends inside the Plastic
Chuck the Screwdriver in a Drill
Spin the Screwdriver and Sandpaper the Cut-off end to a nice Dome.
Grind an Inch off the Shank
Carefully grind a New Tip on the Driver that fits the slot of the Pilot Mix Screw like a glove.
Score the Length of the Handle with a Hacksaw 1/16th deep.
Fill the Hacksaw cut with White Nail Polish.

That will give you a Tweak Tool that will let you reach-in a confined space and be able to make a tiny tweak and WATCH how far you are turning the Mix Screw.

 

Awesome! I actually found this crazy little screwdriver that looks pretty old, but is only about 3.5" long and fits perfectly into the adjustment screw holes/slots. I don't have a clue where I got it, but it is going into my tool kit. I like the idea of longer hoses, though. That is going on my list of to-dos.

I'll post some photos soon. I haven't thought about it until you posted mcrwt644. BTW, glad you're coming back soon. I really appreciate your service. That Fazr is really cool looking bike. Just think about two things before buying it. What's the worst that could happen when she finds out? And what's your exit strategy? LOL Those are my thoughts when confronted with a maritally risky decision (usually, about once every three to four months for me, with the last one being the purchase of my motorcycle while she was out of town visiting family - YIKES!). But, hey! I've got the bike... Things work out.