Oil filter help

One thing I forgot to mention in my "carb cry for help" post - I did an oil change while cleaning my carbs. When I removed the filter bolt, the filter cover stayed stuck to the bottom of the bike. When I removed it, the filter fell out into my oil pan, and I have no idea what the orientation is. The issue is - it is flat on one side, has a dip on the other. Does it matter which side goes up/down?

It seemed a better fit with the dip downwards, so that's how I popped it back in - seems to be running ok, but does it make a difference? I think it may be a filter not made for the bike, as the flat side (top?) said "FRONT" on it - it was about the width of the filter cover, and maybe 1 1/2 - 2" high.

Any input from out there?

Cheers

 

From this, it looks like you may have it backward. The side that says "front" is because most other bikes that filter is used on have it horizontally oriented on the front of the motor. This is from the parts fiche:

 

Yes!

Every time I do an filter change I sit there for awhile asking the same question. Which way. My filters don't say front or down or anything. Just a dent and a flat side. (Yamaha filters). Now I know. Why didn't I just keep track? First time it did the same thing to me, so I was never sure. So...

FLAT - FRONT and DIP the ENGINE.

I'll never forget...until the next time.

Thanks, Fitz

 

NO! The diagram I posted above is for an XS400K (twin,) NOT the same as your XJ650R.

You want THIS diagram: Flat side against the motor, "dip" toward the front/spring/washer. I believe this applies to all the aircooled fours with the filter housing on the front of the motor, I know it's the same for the 550s.

 

OK heres the $64000 question, what are the consequences of a backwards oil filter??

 

I see. Thanks.

Now whats my pneumonic.

Make it look like a belly button. An Inny?

 

Well, looking closely at the diagram, the spacers (P/N 3) go on either side, but the washer and spring go on the "dimple" side. The assembly probably wouldn't fit together very well if you put it together the other way.

If you turned ALL of them around... would the holes in the filter bolt line up with the inlets in the filter? The engine might not build oil pressure and you'd know exactly what the problem was!

The way I'd remember it is that the spring has to hold the filter up against the engine. You wouldn't need a spring to hold it down away from the engine. Gravity could do that for you.

But that's just me...

 

OK. I just went out in the garage and took a new bolt ass'y (aftermarket, but the same) and a new oil filter and played with the relationship both ways. It LOOKS like all it does is covers up a different set of holes and POSSIBLY partially blocks the big hole behind the bypass valve but there are smaller holes it doesn't behind it too.

I had the same question when I first got my '81 because it didn't look right the way the PO had it. I was worried about the lack of a washer between the spring and the rubber seal and discovered it had been put together backwards (and the washer was missing, a common occurance.)

I don't believe there would be any real effect other than possibly slightly less oil flowing through the filter (going past it instead) but I would definitely put it right.

 

Thanks all! The feedback (particularly the diagram) has been very useful!

When the assembly came out, it basically went bolt/thingy with holes (getting technical here), cover (part 1), rubber seal, filter, rubber seal. As far as I know (i.e., unless it is floating around somewhere inside), there was no washer (part 6). Is part 5 another washer, or is it the thingy with holes on the bolt (part 4)? I am also not sure that part 7 was there...

ktcubed, just remember the Dilbert model - dips always move upwards!

Rhys, there is no spring in the Maxim 400 (twin).

Well, seems to be running ok right now - I'll have to wait 'till the weekend to drain the oil again and switch it around.

 

Part 6 is a giant rubber o-ring (both diagrams) part 7 is a thin flat washer that often comes up missing (it sticks to the filter and gets thrown away by a less than diligent mechanic) part 5 IS the o-ring on the filter bolt and you don't have the spring on the 400.

The big o-ring is probably stuck in its groove on the bottom of the motor if it wasn't with the filter cover. You must have one or it would be piddling oil.

 

Yea, except apparently in the 650 the dip got what it deserved and points out/downish (there is a slight tilt down when headed towards the front of the filter.

Hey! DIP Down....

 

So...my bike died on the way to work this morning. It started ok, idled a bit rough, then as I started out, sounded like it was starved for fuel (again) in the high revs in 1st and 2nd. I rode about 10 min before it stalled out at an intersection - prior to that, it started to stall if I didn't keep the rpm's up. It still turns over, but now it won't start. Had to abandon it in a parking lot for the day.

My carb thread is here, for some history on the issues

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=15073.html

Any ideas what it could be? Still carb issues? Float valve issues? On the positive side, I think both cylinders were firing the whole time, so I don't think it was the exact same issue? The idle mixture screws are out 2 1/2 turns, after the carb cleaning....

What doesn't make sense - it ran beautifully on Monday both to/from work (a total of about 45 minutes running time), sat yesterday (snow on roads), then totally snafu'd this morning.

YARGH!

 

I had this problem once and it turned out to be a sort of vapor lock. The valve in my gas cap is faulty, so as gas is pulled into the engine, it slowly creates a vacuum in the tank until the vacuum in the tank is stronger than the vacuum from the engine. It runs longer on higher RPMs because the engine pulls harder.

A plugged petcock, fuel line, or fuel filter would do the same thing. In my case, I popped the gas cap, set the petcock on PRI for a few seconds, and it started right back up.

New gas cap is on order. About $60 from chacal w/ shipping. You can rebuild it for cheaper than that (he has the parts), but in my case the lock cylinder is destroyed as well (thanks to the PO), so I'm just replacing it. I'll have it rekeyed to match the ignition switch later (maybe).

 

Gross, I had to go and look at this before putting my filter on. That's why I noticed that #7 washer thing that goes in there. Causing me to have to feel around in my dirty oil that had drained into my pan, where I had dropped the filter, so I could find it. Well, at least it was there, guess it'd been worse if I did that for no reason.

 

Because #7 tends to stick to the used oil filter upon replacement, it often gets thrown out by a PO. BOTH of my 550's were missing #7 when I got them. It's not super-critical, it just keeeps the spring from digging into the rubber grommet, gives it a hard surface to push against.

 

Yeah, I just meant it would suck to dig around in that for no reason, Also, I was wrong, was the one that goes on the drain plug, so, it's really a good thing I got it out of there, or all my shiny new oil probably would have been leaking right back out. So, I am missing #7, as I expected, but at least that means somebody changed the oil at some point

 

That's funny. The old filter I pulled out of the 750 had the spring stuck into it. Glad I don't need it any more.