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Open Headers: HELP PLEASE??!!

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by Sonny573, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    I need help with what kind of jet kit i need to purchase so my 82 maxim 650 will run correctly with open headers....

    Also if someone could steer me into the right direction on where to get the jet kit it would be greatly appreciated. I already have the carbs off and cleaned. Need to get new gaskets and new manifold boots as well.

    Thanks so much for the help!!

    Sonny
     
  2. TIMEtoRIDE

    TIMEtoRIDE Active Member

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    What you need is a business that sells to XJ guys - - XJ4EVER.com

    Look in the upper right corner of the page, click on it for the catalog.
    You should get 112 or 114 MAIN jets and then read your plugs.
    Are you running the stock air box??
    You should also read the carb cleaning threads to make sure you don't miss anything.
     
  3. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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  4. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    Time to ride, yes I'm using the stock air box. Eventually will take that off also. Any help with process I am greatly thankful!! I don't know what you mean by the carb cleaning threads...

    Rick, I have tried the baffles even ripped them out if the stock exhaust. Just not giving me the sound I want. I will only be riding this bike throughout the city, no long trips. It's a bike for me to experiment with. Crab building and breaking it down. Thanks agian and I can use all the guidance in the world with this project!!

    Sonny
     
  5. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Getting one of these XJ's Dialed-in, Stock, is an adventure all in itself.

    The Hitachi CV-Carbs can be frustrating to try and fine-tune with the stock airbox and free-flow exhaust.

    Most everybody says: "You have to re-jet"

    I think you have to shape and accelerate the Intake Air Stream, plus guarantee there is positive pressure at the Atmosphere Port at 12 O'clock on the Intake Horn.
     
  6. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    Okay a lot of that makes no sense to me. Hahahah!! I am new to all of this. But what kind of air filter do I get once I remove the stock air box. I am concerned with back pressure and it running too lean. Im assuming I will have to adjust the floats to correct the leanness?

    Again thank you so much. This I goin to be a long but gratifying process I love this stuff!

    Sonny
     
  7. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Not adjust the floats. More like re-jet the carbs. Float levels need to be precisely wet-set to spec.

    There is a chart toward the end of this article that gives re-jetting guidelines based on what intake/exhaust mods have been done: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14692.html
     
  8. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    Im not receiving all the posts for this topic for some reason. But, do I need to change all the jets or just the main fuel jets? That article is perfect!!! Thanks so much! My next question is what kind of pod filters do I get?
     
  9. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    It's going to be a long process, alright, ... but gratifying is left to be seen. You aren't going to love it if the Plant won't perform to your expectations.

    You are removing the "Constant" from Constant-Velocity and replacing it with Turbulent.
    You are reducing the Back Pressure to a Negative Value with Inertial Flow evacuating the Combustion Chambers and playing havoc with the Mixture required of the following Intake Charge.

    The Hitachi Carbs were designed to be Environmentally Compliant. Not, High-performance. Yamaha raced with Mikuni Carbs. The Mikuni's are more suitable to Modifications.

    You can't tune the Mill to run well based on the Exhaust Note you desire to obtain.
    Re-Jetting and Shimming aren't the only Mods necessary to have the Plant make power "Out-of-the-hole", Mid-range for cruising, and Wide-open Throttle.

    Building a Bike that will reflect the product of your imagination is going to be far more rewarding when you can wrist-open the Throttle and have the Engine respond without a hiccup or a flat-spot that causes you to be the last guy to arrive at the next red light or be the straggler trying to keep-up with the pack.

    If I was tasked to Modify a 4-Pack of Hitachi's to perform well with AirPods and Open Exhaust I'd do this:

    • Seal the Kidney-shaped Atmosphere Vent at the Top of the Intake Horn.
    • Drill a 3/8th Inch Aux Atmosphere Vent Hole in the Horn ahead of where the Pod clamps to the Horn. Affix a Float Beenie-screen Air Filter.
    • Remove the Main AIR Jet.
    • Modify the Main Nozzles (Emulsion Tubes) ... Re-drill the AIR Siphoning Ports in the Tubes Diameters. Bottom stays Stock. 2nd one up a Drill Size.
    3rd one up, ... the next Drill Size and so on. Add extra STOCK Holes BETWEEN the Modified Holes if the Bike still runs Lean.
    • Install a Tunable Baffle System:
    > Using the "Idea" from this link, ... Fabricate just enough shunts to provide suitable Back Pressure to prevent a Critically Lean condition harmful to the Engine.

    http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/exhaust.htm
     
  10. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    I am some what confused, i see a lot of 650 maxims on here with open headers and bobber style bikes. I may be missing something but it seems to me they are rebuilding and re jetting carbs and adding pod filters.

    I am in desperate need for the manuel for this bike. If you could steer me in the right direction please do because a lot of this technical talk i am having a hard time with.

    I am a novice to doing this type of breakdown. I do have carb experience but not exhaust experimentation combined with carbs.

    Thank you, and i appologize if i come off as a novice but i am. I guess i need to start somewhere though.

    Sonny.
     
  11. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    The books for your bike are the Haynes 650/750 book, widely available; and a factory manual. The factory 650 book is based on the original, non-YICS "G" model, with supplements as needed for the YICS bikes or the Seca.

    XJ4Ever carries manuals, or you can troll eBay for a factory book.

    You can get the Haynes http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-XJ650-Owne ... Yamaha+750 pretty much anywhere including eBay;

    and here's a factory book: http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-XJ-650-J ... 86&vxp=mtr (I'm assuming you have an '82 Max, XJ650J.)

    What everyone is trying to tell you from a bunch of different perspectives is that CV carbs were designed to live in a "constant" environment, and that pod filters disrupt them. Yes you see lots of folks with pods and open pipes, and we also have any number of people struggling with trying to make a heavily-modified bike run right at any one time. What you don't see are very many "success stories."

    It also depends on what kind of performance you're expecting from the finished product. These bikes, in stock trim, were pretty much "racebikes for the street" with a peaky powerband with the real power not coming on until 6K rpm; but then pulling hard to redline. In stock tune, they're 130mph bikes.

    You simply will not get that kind of performance (or any facsimile of fuel economy) from a bike with pods and open pipes. If you're happy shifting at 5 Grand and having a top speed of about 65mph, then you won't be disappointed. Just don't pick a drag race with a stock XJ.

    One last thing: have you actually ridden this bike with open pipes? You may quickly discover that you'd prefer some form of sound abatement.
     
  12. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    Yes I have been riding open for a couple of weeks now. The bike leaned over and flooded everything. So I have taken the carbs off for a good cleaning and decided I mine as well rebuild it and change the jets also. Get new manifold boots and pod filters.

    I live in center city Philadelphia and rarely get above 50 mpr that's why this type of exhaust is fine for me. I will eventually get 4 into 1 exhaust but I can't afford it right now...

    Thank you so much for your manual help!! I can use all the help with this. I wouldn't be doing this if I rode this bike on highways and for long periods of time or if I went faster than 60 like you said. This is a bike for me to learn all aspects of a motorcycle. Eventually I will get new bike for highway and long trip rides.

    Thanks big!!!

    Sonny
    P.s. my uncle has a totally redone 64 yamah Endorra, thought you might like that.
     
  13. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Take the time to extract the Airbox with care and store it for future use.

    Or, you can easily find someone who will take it off your hands.

    There might be a time to come when you throw-up your hands and re-think your tuning issues with "Back to square-one"!
     
  14. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    HEED this sage advice.

    And if the carbs have been flooding, check the oil for signs of gasoline pollution. Gas-diluted oil can kill your motor. Open the oil filler plug and take a whiff. It should smell like burnt oil. If it smells like gasoline then you need an immediate oil change.
     
  15. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    I couldn't agree with both of you more!!! I will probably go ahead and do an oil change regardless of smell just to be safe.

    I wanna thank both of you for taking the time to advise me on this. I do have another problem I had mentioned on another forum here on xj. It has to do with stripped idle mix screws. All four of them are stripped on the bowls.

    Iv never drilled out a stripped screw on ANYTHING. I don't wan to damage the thread.... So how do I go about drilling out the screw? What size drill or should I just buy new bowls? Which is MORE money :(

    Thanks guys!!!

    Sonny

    And I'm for sure gonna hold on to the the air box! Just in case.... :)
     
  16. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Wait whoa hold on.

    "Idle mix" screws are located in the top of the carbs, adjacent to the enrichment plungers.

    It sounds to me like you're talking about stripped out FLOAT BOWL DRAIN screws.

    If that is indeed the case, remove the float bowl from the carb. Then screw it to a board with a couple of sheet metal screws; this makes it possible to hold it securely so you can apply force and heat.

    Invest in a set of these: http://www.sears.com/craftsman-4-pc-dri ... P?prdNo=15 or similar. You want the kind that has not only the swirly "extractor" end but reverse drill bits too.

    Get some Kroil, you're going to need it: http://www.kanolabs.com/google/ (or thru Harbor Freight, free shipping: https://secure.cnchost.com/kanolabs.com ... r_hf.shtml

    Then after soaking the stripped screw in Kroil for a day or two, you gently apply heat to the carb bowl in the area of the screw, and using the reverse-drill screw extractor, you carefully drill into the center of the screw. In many cases, the reverse-drilling will bring the screw out, you won't even have to use the "extractor" end.

    The key points are screwing the float bowl to a board, Kroil, heat and reverse-drilling.
     
  17. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    If you buy a set of Screw Extractors, ... (EZ-Outs) ... the Drill Size will be indicated by which EZ-Out you select for the job.

    DONT HEAT an EZ Out.
     
  18. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    yes the drain screws in the float bowls. Sorry.

    Once i get these out can i get new screws that fit or do they HAVE to be brass yamaha hitachi carb screws?

    I think im going to try Rick suggestion first. I do not have any way of heating the area. Thanks!!!

    Sonny
     
  19. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    You can get those Drain Screws out of there without drilling.

    Cut new Slots inn the Drain Screws with a DREMEL Tool with a Flex Wand attachment; using a Diamond Bit.
    Cut a Slot for a Screwdriver Head.

    Using a Hand-held Impact Tool with a Screwdriver Bit grinded to FIT the Drain Screw opening; apply the Impact Tool to dislodge the stuck Drain Screw.

    Heat the Bowl using a Mini-propane with a Pencil Tip or a Protable Butane Lighter from a Head Shop or Comic Book Store.

    Use a gloved assistant.
    Position a Hard Wood Hammer Handle in a Vice so that the Bowl can be angled on the Handle to steady the Bowl for Impact.

    Get a good bite on the Screw after heating the Drain area.
    Use the Impact Tool.
    Apply pre-impact torque.
    Smack that sum-bidge a good lick.
     
  20. iwingameover

    iwingameover Active Member

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    You can get replacement drain screws for Len (xj4ever) If you haven't found him for parts yet, he is the man.
     
  21. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    TRUE story:

    I'm in AutoZone, looking for a replacement for the clutch bracket screw that I had successfully used an extractor bit on. (It tends to damage the already buggered screw quite a bit.)

    AutoZoner (yes that's what they call the staff) "Can I help you?"

    Me: (Handing him the buggered up screw) "this is metric and I'm trying to find a replacement."

    AutoZoner, looking at the screw IN HIS HAND: "Wow, what happened to it?"

    Me: "I used an extractor on it."

    AutoZoner (honest truth, he really said) "Wow! Did it work?" 8O

    No, sunshine, you're holding an entire Yamaha 550 in your hand. What do you think? I didn't say it, but I thought about it.
     
  22. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    Hahah!!! Amazing! I asked an autozoner if they sold carb cleaner he said no and asked if WD40 would work. Right next to he WD40 was a can of carb cleaner and little further down was a GALLON of carb cleaner.

    How do they get there jobs?

    Sonny
     
  23. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    I haves similar story about exhaust wrap but i digress....
     
  24. iwingameover

    iwingameover Active Member

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    I went to an autozone last week for a glow plug relay for my diesel truck. The woman looked it up in the computer, went in the back and then returned empty handed. She told me "we have some but they're in the ignition section so it won't work"

    I told her to give it to me anyway and I'd give it a shot.

    It was of course the right part with the right part number as it's just a big solenoid and probably fits many Fords or other cars for a starter circuit or any other high load electrical use.

    I've found the Advance near my house to be much better but still not great and at least they speak English, mostly.
     
  25. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    So further down the rabbit hole i goooo...

    I succesfully removed the stock air box today, but now im wondering when i install the pod filters where will the tude that came from the top of the gear chamber into the air box go?

    thanks,

    Sonny
     
  26. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    That tube is your crankcase breather. Various companies, K&N included, make "mini-pods" exactly for that purpose.

    They even come in different colors.

    [​IMG]

    Don't cut up the original, molded hose especially if it's still in good shape. Just get a short hunk of automotive hose with the appropriate ID; it'll support the little filter better too.
     
  27. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    Great!!

    So I just install the filter right on to that nub at the top of that crank case or to the hose?

    Thanks

    Sonny
     
  28. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    You could attach a filter directly to the crankcase vent, but you might find that it will eventually become saturated with oil. If it does you should use a oil-rated hose that's long enough to allow you to mount the filter on the frame, so any oil (or oil vapor) that comes out of the vent can drain back down without getting up to the filter.
     
  29. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Just don't use too long of a hose.

    I agree; I wouldn't attach it directly to the vent. I'd use a piece of hose approximately the same length as the original hose.
     
  30. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    Okay, so I was wondering, since I have rejetted the carb to main fuel 124 and pilot to 42 is it essential that I reset the float bowl levels?
     
  31. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Not "reset" they need to be accurately wet-set to spec.

    If they were not accurately, individually "wet-set" already, then yes it is essential.
     
  32. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    Well I assuming they are set to spec. I'm wondering if they need to be set differently since I am modifying the jets or do they just stay the same and I don't touch them.

    Thanks
    Sonny573
     
  33. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    You have to do more that just "Re-Jet".
    Your Float Heights need to need to be close to High In-specs.

    Then, you have to facilitate getting the Main Jet Supplied Fuel OUT of the Maain Nozzle (Emulsion Tube).

    You have to guarantee there is ATMOSPHERE surrounding the Main Nozzle.
    The Holes drilled in the Nozzle:
    • Aid Siphoning Fuel up and out of the Nozzle
    • The AIR Holes also let the AIR Atomize the Main Jet Supplied Fuel.

    If the Intake Air is not "Shaped and Accelerated" as it passes-over the Nozzle Exit, ... the Pressure at the Nozzle Opening will not be lowered sufficiently to suck-out the right amount of Fuel ---> (No matter what Size Jet is used).

    The Fuel will spill-out of the Nozzle in Rivulet Form.
    The Rivulet of Non-atomized Fuel is a weak stream causing a Lean Condition.
    The Rivulet of Non-atomized Fuel does not Ignite with the Explosive Force that a proper Mixture would provide causing Flat Spots and Erratic Performance.

    Any factor that reduces Atmospheric Pressure at the Atmosphere Vent, at the Top of the Intake Horn, will adversely effect the Pressure within the cavity BELOW the Diaphragm Rubber. Robbing the Fuel Delivery of av available MAIN AIR and Atmosphere to allow the Diaphragm Rubber to collapse raising the Piston and withdrawing the Needle Jet up to release Main Jet Fuel.
     
  34. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    SUCCESS!!! well kinda.....

    so i have drilled and rejetted and re gasketed and installed the pod filters...

    bike runs and idles perfectlly (after warmed up)..... neighbor even came out and yelled "ENOUGH"...

    but one glitch, of course, it only idles and runs perfectly when its in the prime position. what could be causing this?

    thanks
     
  35. iwingameover

    iwingameover Active Member

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    not getting full flow from the tank. Maybe a pinched or cracked vacuum line or a plugged cap vent. Try running in in the ON position with the gas cap open.
     
  36. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Check to see that the Vacuum Line is connected to the Petc0ck.
    TEST the Vacuum function.
    (Just suck on the end of the Vacuum Line and watch the Petc0cks Fuel Outlet.)

    Petc0ck Filter Tower might be contaminated with Rust.
    Vacuum Operated Membrane might be perforated.
     
  37. Sonny573

    Sonny573 Member

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    Great! Thanks guys! The bike runs perfect! Sounds amazing i love it. Now I can move on to turning the seat...

    But there is a whistling sound coming from the right side of the carbs... I'm assuming it's from the drilling... Can i fix this?
     

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