Question for hogfiddles or anyone with the Haynes 900 manual

OK I have a possible idea why my forks pissed all the oil out despite the P/O being adamant he did the seals.

In the Haynes manual he gave me I've just been looking over the fork section and I need to know is it just me having a mental breakdown, or on page 5.9 step 25 (also pictured Fig 7.25) does it tell you to install the seal upside down? 8O It bloody well does doesn't it?

Wow what a thing to miss in a manual! Anyone else notice this? (obviously the P/O didn't, I'll bet my next weeks money they're upside down when I strip them!

 

At least they got it right for the 750 manual (although they do suggest you gouge the old seal out with a screwdriver in that one 8O )

Ahh Haynes, the Achilles heel of inexperienced fettlers the world over :lol:

 

I'm not sure what part or page you're looking at, but in a quick glance through the factory manual, it does say the make sure of a couple things:

1. do NOT bottom out the tube when pulling the seals. If you do will damage the oil valve.

Possibly that's what happened......
or

2. make sure to tape over the seal groove, otherwise the sharp edge could damage a seal when it's installed.

and/or

make sure to place a coating of oil over the seals as you're installing them so they don't bind up, twist, or otherwise potentially tear.

If you still have difficulty, then let me know exactly what step you're at and I"ll try to read closely in the factory manual.

Dave FOx

 

You misunderstand me Dave, thanks for the reply though I'm experienced in fork seals and will have no problem when I get round to it. Was just expressing my surprise/disbelief at such a glaring error in the Haynes and wondering if anyone else spotted that.

I'm referring to the Haynes manual for the '83-'94 900, the picture and description I mentioned are from that, and say to install the fork seal with the lips UP! I'm thinking the previous owner followed the manual to the word when he did the seals

The Haynes does mention not to smash into the oil lock when removing the old seals so hopefully he's left those intact for me

So far the only difficulty I've personally had with the forks is the fact that the first ride I took all the oil peed out of the forks, I haven't pulled them apart yet but I'm expecting to find them upside down :lol:

 

No prob.........I thought you were questioning what was printed by comparison in the haynes to the factory manual.

Hey, I gotta tell you...... your bike is BEAUTIFUL!!!

Now MY turn to brag---go to my gallery and check out the two pics of my '83 900rk.

Dave

 

Umm, thanks 8) :lol: I'm really loving it so far, handled really sweetly before the forks went pogo but was a bit scared to ride it hard not so much due to the fact the damping went off, more down to the fear of crashing/getting taken out on something so rare :? but I'm sure it'll be OK if I just keep it for high days and holidays (fat chance )

Need to get the old CB sold and pick up a 900F for a daily methinks :lol:

Right, on my way to your gallery now

 

Nice indeed, I really like that colour scheme even if I wasn't so obviously biased Mine wouldn't win any prizes I don't think, the black part of the sidepanels is rubbing through to red, the passenger peg hangers & couple other bits need a polish up & there's some paint chips here and there but it's done alright for a 30 year old bike that nobody knew what it was haha

What happened with the tank badges though, were they never there or did you take them off because the gold went flaky like mine have? (never thought of removing them, might just do that as they let the bike down a bit).

Also, on the 900 do the front turn signals light up as marker lights when you're not signalling??

 

No.
The stock 900rk Bulbs and Sockets should be BOTH "Single-filament" Bulb-type.
Amber and Chromed "Bricks-on-a-stick.
Devoid of Aerodynamics. Plain vanilla.

XV700N Virago, ... (The infamous Save-Harley edition) Signal Lights are Dual Filament-type.
If you swap the Rubber Mounts around, ... you can rig Running Lights.

 

Cool, another difference to chalk up for the E-II compared with it's big cousin I like the big chrome bricks, they look nice IMO

I think (although haven't looked yet) that the front bulbs are single filament though & are controlled by a ballast which gives them 6v for running lights & on activation of signals it cuts the 6v as both go out when signalling. I could be wrong, but I have a feeling this is the case...

 

That tank came on the bike when I got it..............There's a long history to this particular bike. In a nutshell, it was a few days away from being parted out when I came across it. The PO was so frustrated, and had put a few $k into getting it fixed (because it wouldn't run right----it wouldn't pass Maryland emissions test), and ONE of the things he had been told was that the tank was the problem. So, they ordered a new tank from Yamaha (charged him $660.00 for the tank, then the badges were a separate charge) The tank was installed, but not the badges....and I have them still stapled shut in their bags from Yamaha.

Over the course of two or three years, the repair shop bilked him out of around $3,000.00. Yup, you're reading that right......$3k. He gave me all the receipts to prove it. I told him he could've had a lawsuit and won, but it was too many years previous, and he just wanted to wash his hands of the whole mess.

Then end of THAT story was.....I bought the bike, cleaned the carbs, put $124 into the bike, and have been riding since. That's accompanying all the detailing and cleaning, etc...... to get her back to glory. I'm stopping shy of restoring at this point. I want to keep her as unrestored, at least for now.

Dave F

 

Wowee that's some way to spend all their money 8O

OK I have a small question/Haynes mistake thing on the fork oil level/quantity.

It lists the antidive forks as having 282-290cc capacity and oil height of 164mm (yes, 164mm from top with spring out & fully compressed!) 8O

That'd be enough to pop the seals once the springs took up the remaining space & the first time they compressed right?

Thought it didn't sound right & sure enough if I measure 164mm the oil would be higher than the seal :roll:

I've put in 290cc and measured it to be (no spring, full compression) 210mm. That sound about right?

Cheers

 

Dave.... that's number 17, right?

 

Yes, that's why I got sucked into the 900rk thing.....LOL. Yup, serial #17. I can guarantee it's first month of production....the data sticker tells me that. I feel confident (thought there's no proof that I can find.....yet......) that it would be a first-week production, and I personally like to think that it very well could be a first DAY production, as I'm sure they made more than one each day. I assume that the first few went to designer, museum, archive, etc...... so it could be remotely possible that it's even the first or one of the first few to arrive in the states.

SOMEday maybe I'll have proof..........til then, I just run the 900rk database

dave F

 

That must be from the first HALF day of production I'd think, as surely the press/show bikes etc would have made up the first 10 or so serials before production actually got underway?

Anything on the fork oil thing by the way?

All back together and seems fine with that level in, time will tell...

 

I just got in, and am heading to bed shortly. Will try to get a look tomorrow...

dave

 

Yamaha's Top Selling Dealerships got two floor models.
Selected other Dealers got one.

The rest took orders and got a Bike shipped-out from California.


•••••••••••

 

Haynes says:

fork oil capacity:
31A model....286 +/- 4cc
all others......276cc

fork oil level:
31A model....164mm*
all others......168mm*
*oil level measured from top of tube, spring removed, leg fully compressed

Yamaha service manual says:

the same thing, but funny - the oil capacity is only listed as the amount for model 31A, but the oil level is only listed as the amount for the 'all others'.

Dave Fox

 

Strangely though, when I added the maximum 290cc of oil, I got a level of 210mm (*no spring, full comp).

Forks work great now with 290cc (210mm*) and 15.5psi, no leaks, damping perfect...

I wonder if the figures of 164mm and 168mm are really WITH springs? Wouldn't be a good way to measure anyhow so I'm saying 31A/29R models 210mm*

Thanks for looking Dave, hope this saves someone from blowing any seals in future!

 

The Haynes I have is for:
Xj900F 853cc '83-84
Xj900F 891cc '85-94
note: this manual does not cover the Xj900S Diversion

Haynes Manual #3239

----------------------------------------------------------

Is your's, per chance, for the Diversion?

Dave F

 

Nope, 3239 as yours... :?

853cc April '83-Nov '84

891cc Feb '85-Dec '94

Haynes publishing 1996, maybe yours is a different edition? Must be :?

 

That must be it.....mine's a 1999 edition. They must have wanted to make sure to change the wrong information to the wrong information.

Dave F

lol

 

Well at least we know they're consistent :lol:

Just don't forget that if & when you rebuild any 31A forks. Like I say I'm sure it'd become obvious when the springs were refitted that the level was way up but even so I've "amended" my book, for any future owner, to read 210mm*

Ahh the joys of classic bikes. Must try to get for a ride if the weather holds

Oh, can't recall if I mentioned I popped off one of the front signal lenses & they are indeed twin filaments on the 29R....