Rattling Noise On Idle - 550 Primary Chain HI-VO

Over the years, my 82 Seca 550 has gradually started making "the" rattling noise when running in neutral with the clutch lever out such that the transmission parts are spinning. Most pronounced when the engine is hot and the oil is thin. The noise goes away when I pull in the clutch, so I know it's nothing in the pistons, cams, or crank.

Search indicates that it's a well known issue on the 550s and the consensus is that it's the primary "HI-VO" chain rattling around in there a little, and it's nothing to worry about.

I've not been riding much lately, but was out yesterday for the first time in a while, and by the time I got back home, it was making more noise there than I remember.

I changed my oil hoping that maybe the old stuff had started to break down and lose viscosity. Good news is that I didn't find anything interesting in the oil, but the bad news is that there was no change in the rattle.

Are we all still sure that this is "nothing to worry about"?

I've seen plenty of threads about broken primary chain guides, but they all seem to be for the bigger engines. Nothing on the 550's though. Is there any way I can get a peek at my primary chain guide without splitting the case? I know I can't replace it without splitting the case, but can I get a look at it at least?

 

Nope.

It isn't made the same as the big bikes' tensioner though; the "slipper foot" is solid, not segmented; physically smaller and part of a robust metal plate. It's not gonna crumble on you. I'll try to find a good pic for you.

How many miles on the bike? Ever had your clutch apart?

Take a look in my clutch article, which specifically covers the 550/600 clutches. http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=29541.html

The goofy "tabbed" asymmetrical plain plates, arranged in a staggered pattern, are "off balance" slightly, so they each pull in a different direction on the hub when spinning. This was designed in to help alleviate clutch rattle. Does it work? Not really. I have a full Barnett clutch in one of my 550s; it DOES NOT have the tabbed/asymmetric plain plates, and it's just as not quiet as my other bike with a stock clutch.

You also might want to pop the clutch cover and be sure the hub retaining nut isn't loose and the clutch banging around against the tab washer. One of my bikes came to me with a loose clutch nut and a BIG rattle.

There are other things that will contribute to/help alleviate the "slap." The biggest single thing is to get the "lump-lump-lump" out of your idle. Make sure you adjust your camchain, get the valves in spec, and sync the thing to within an inch of its life. Get it idling like a sewing machine and the primary slap will be greatly reduced.

Remember, the tensioner is oil-pressure driven. Oil pressure is low at idle, and a lumpy-idling motor will "yank" the primary enough to overcome the oil pressure holding the tensioner and make is slap worse.

Have a peek in the clutch; get the motor tuned so it idles smoothly; run 20W-something (20W50 is fine if you can't find the recommended 20W40) and don't worry about it.

 

Thanks Fitz,

I found your input very prominent in the previous responses to the topic on the subject. As a matter of fact, the only reason my engine isn't already in half is your input to quell the panic on previous threads.

My bike has less than 10K "responsible" miles on it. Original owner, and is in excellent condition. It idles as smooth as the day it left the showroom floor. It runs great, shifts great, and sounds perfect when I pull in the clutch. That tells me it's got nothing to do with valves or the cam chain.

Something has changed.

I've never had the clutch cover off. Never needed to. I re-read through your excellent clutch thread. I guess there's a chance that my hub nut may be loose, but it would have to have been improperly installed at the factory. Improbable, but certainly not impossible. Let me ask though... I pull in the clutch and the rattle goes away. In other words, when the plates and hub are all locked together, it rattles. But when I pull in the clutch and let them float with respect to eachother, it's quiet. Wouldn't that rule out plate rattle and a loose hub nut?

I saw during searching and reading the service manual that the tensioner is oil pressure driven and that's why I changed my oil. I couldn't remember when was the last time I changed it and I was hoping that the old oil had started to break down and lose viscosity thereby reducing the tension on the primary chain. Hadn't been a lot of miles, but could have been a few years. I used 10W-40 (which should be the same as 20W-40 when hot) and it made no difference. However, both before and after the oil change, it's quieter when the oil is cold and thicker. Again, pointing to the HI-VO chain being the source of the noise.

It does seem to get quieter once I get up to maybe 2000-2500 RPM, but I can't tell if the rattle is simply getting drowned out by a louder note at higher RPM's.

On one hand, I don't want to rip the whole thing apart to fix a non-problem, but on the other hand, I don't want to put off a small issue now that's going to become a big issue later if I let it fester.

Thanks again for your help, and I'd really like to see some pics if they're available. The service manual is pretty useless in this regard.

Burnarr

 

Oh, it's related to the HI-VO chain, but there are other factors.

For starters, remember that 20W40 is 20W oil that "acts like" 40W when hot; and 10W is 10 weight oil to begin with. Look in the manual at the temp range recommendation, and start running 20W-something. Unless you're riding a lot in temps below 41*F, then switch to 20W40 or 20W50; I can guarantee you'll hear a difference. The book says 10W up to 59*F; but it also "overlaps" recommending 20W beginning at 41F. So if you're riding in temps above 59, you're supposed to be using 20W-something anyway, and you're still good down to 41. I run 20W40 pretty much all the time, occasionally 20W50 in super-hot weather.

When the clutch is out, the entire clutch assembly, all locked together, AND the transmission are all spinning merrily around; or should I say flopping? If it shuts up completely when you pull in the clutch, you better have a look at the clutch.

You need to change the oil annually at a minimum, regardless of miles. And I would definitely pop the clutch cover, pull the pressure plate and be sure the hub nut is tight.

So, at 10K original miles, you have checked the valve clearances twice now, RIGHT?

I'll get a pic of some sort of the tensioner up as soon as I can find a good one.

 

YES. But switch to 20W-something, and make sure your clutch isn't disassembling itself.

Here're the only "portraits" I could locate of the mechanism in question; along with an excerpt from a magazine article explaining it. I added tags.

 

Thanks again Fitz. Those pics are much better than anything I've seen to date.

Your posts are chock full of good advice, from checking the valves, to changing the oil on a time OR mileage limit, and I have to admit that I'm recalcitrant on both counts. I've got a new valve cover gasket here, but just haven't gotten around to it. I've also got new rear brake shoes sitting on the bench...

OK, OK... I'll pull the clutch cover just to make double dog sure that my clutch isn't unscrewing itself, but it's under protest.

So, entering into the theoretical part of the discussion... How about the "Why?" As in why is my HI-VO chain making so much more noise than it used to? Some possible suggestions:

Chain stretched to the point that the tensioner is hitting some mechanical limit and can no longer keep it as tight as intended?
Chain stretched to the point that the tensioner is pushing the chain against the lower case?
General engine wear has reduced oil pressure and the chain tension is lower accordingly.
Oil is seeping around the tensioner assy (looks like there's an O-ring seal on it).
Rubber shoe is hard and brittle and is acting like an amplifier.

Any thoughts? Have you ever worked on an engine and made this noise go away?

And one last question... Any idea what "HI-VO" stands for?

 

Dude; you're WAAYYY over-worrying this. Your bike has what, 10K on it? Mine have 13K and 27K respectively; both make "the noise" but getting the idle smoothed out is the biggest single factor in minimizing it. Running the correct weight oil for the temperature you're operating in will affect it as well, you'll see.

Get the camchain and valves adjusted, and change to 20W-something motorcycle oil, and see how it sounds. But I still recommend a peek in the clutch (you'll need to pull the five screws and the pressure plate to check the hub nut) just to be sure. The drastic difference in sound you describe when pulling in the clutch is why I think that you really ought to have a peek. Unless you've been hammering the living crap out of the bike, your HY-VO chain is fine.

And finally: HY-VO® Chain is a unique type of Silent Chain. HY-VO stands for High Capacity, High Velocity, and Involute Tooth, and it is a registered trademark of Borg-Warner Automotive, Inc.

Here's an explanation of how it works; scroll down toward the bottom: http://chain-guide.com/applications/1-6 ... chain.html

It's one of the heaviest-duty components in your bike.

 

Haha! I know. It's what I do. :lol:

The longer story is that I've been dealing with spine issues that have allowed me to do very little riding over the past year or so, and I'm feeling good enough to do some riding "right now". That opportunity may pass, and I would hate to miss it.

On the other hand, I'm probably not going to be riding a lot before I would be packing the bike away for the winter anyway, and I'll put that riding off if there's the risk that I'm going to do something to the engine that I would regret later.

Thanks for the details on the HY-VO. (on edit) http://borgwarnermorsetec.com/Hy-vo.pdf

Couple other questions:

I've seen some discussion about establishing a shim pool for the valves shims. Has that idea ever come to fruition?

And, about how much does the 550 engine weigh?

 

You're not going to damage anything, and the HY-VO chain is fine.

What you might damage is a VALVE; if they've never been checked and the bike has 10K on it, you're 7000 overdue for the initial adjustment. That one's the most important: my bike had 7100 untouched miles on it when I got it, and 8 of 8 were tight.

Get the valves in spec, change the oil, and ride the bike. Nothing's gonna blow up. See what it sounds like after the oil change; THEN decide if you feel like popping the clutch cover off.

But I wouldn't worry about trying to replace the HY-VO chain. You can't anyway; you would need both sprockets too, and one is part of the crankshaft. I've never heard of a 550 primary chain or tensioner failure yet; and I'm confident that at only 10K miles, yours is fine.

Not your valves though. Have you ever adjusted the CAM chain?

 

Regarding my valves... If memory serves, I'm not as far out of schedule as you might believe. Back when I was young and stupider, believing that my local dealer would do a better job working on my bike than I could do myself, I took it to them for the 3000 mile service. Not saying they did it right, but a valve check and adjustment was supposed to be part of that service.

I've now got a little less than 9K, so I'm approaching 1000 miles overdue. Overdue yes, but not 7000 miles overdue. :wink:

I adjusted the cam chain last year. Didn't notice any difference in anything when I did it. No changes in noise, no changes in performance... Nothing. I guess that's good.

So... I went looking for 20W-40 this afternoon and came up blank. Closest thing I found was 15W-40 diesel, and of course, the ubiquitous 20W-50. Even the Castrol 4 stroke Cycle oil was 10W40 or 20W50.

What brand have you found with 20W-40?

 

Since I couldn't find 20W-40, I did a little research into oil technology to refresh my memory on how the multi-grade oils work, and came away with the following. I'm sure we both already know most of this stuff, so I'm going to keep it brief.

The first number (the "10W" in 10W-40) is how the oil behaves at cold temperatures (below 0 degrees C) and I don't care much about that number because I never ride anywhere near there.

The second number (the "40" in 20W-40) is how the oil behaves at 100 degrees C. 10W-40, 15W-40, and 20W-40 should all be the same at 100C. The slope of the viscosity curve will be different between the start and the finish, but they all intercept at "40".

The multi-grade oils start with a base oil weight and then they add viscosity improving additives to reduce the decrease in viscosity as the temperature goes up. The wider the range, the more additives they put in. In other words, 10W-40 requires more additives than 10W-30. These additives break down over time, use, and heat, and old used oil will thin more at high temp than fresh, clean, unused oil. This means that you should use the narrowest range that works in your application.

The single grade oils like SAE40 contain none of these additives and will behave the same as the multigrades at 100C. In other words, SAE40, 10W-40, 15W-40, and 20W-40 should all be the same at 100C. Because of the lack of additives, the single grade oils are also immune to the additive breakdown.

I'm thinking that since I'm a warm weather rider only (above 60F maybe), the best choice for me would be SAE40. Not only do I get 40 weight oil when hot, but I get rid of additives that I'm not making use of anyway.

What say you? :?:

 

NNOOO!!! Not straight-weight oil. Too thick when motor cold; scary for plain bearings with tight tolerances (like your bike.) And yes, I fully understand how multi-weight oils work.

Run 20W50 if you can't find 20W40. Castrol 4T 20W50 is fine.

If you want to run 20W40, I have a local shop that carries Spectro conventional (motorcycle) oil; which is what I use, or should I say, WAS using.

This season, I'm running Castrol Act>EVO X-Tra 4T Semi-synthetic motorcycle oil, supposedly specially formulated for high-revving 4-cylinder bikes with wet clutches. I LIKE it. Absolutely zero oil consumption, even with extended high-speed running in hot temps. http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiong ... Id=7040549

The ONLY drawback is it's a little hard to find; so I've been getting it here:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/1/ ... =SLIsearch

But you'll be FINE with 20W50; and I guarantee your primary chain tensioner will love you for it.

 

I'll take a look at some additional, less mainstream stores for some 20W-40, but I really don't get why that would make a difference over the 10W-40 I've already installed. Anything ending in "40" must be between 12.5 to 16.3 cSt when tested at 100 degrees C.

10W-40 and 20W-40 should be the same when hot.

Of course, 20W-50 would always be thicker at the same temp, but I'm not seeing the diff between 10W-40 and 20W-40 except at cold temps.

Am I missing something? :?:

 

Just run 20W50 and you'll be fine; AND the primary will be quiter. Honest. Trust me. You're way over-theorizing this. You want to know how to quiet down your primary; and I'm telling you: Run 20W-base weight oil, adjust the camchain and get the valves in spec.

Just do the oil change first; use Castrol 4T 20W50; and then go from there. Your primary WILL be quieter.

 

Thanks for all your attention Fitz. I really appreciate the effort.

I went out for about a ride this morning and parts didn't come flying out the side of the engine casing and the rattle also didn't get any worse than it was a couple of days ago. Good news on both fronts, right? :lol:

I went to a different parts store as part of this trip and they didn't have any 20W-40 or Castrol 4T. So, I didn't get it today but I will get some and give it a try.

I'm still trying decide if I want to peek at the clutch now or wait for the end of this riding season... What are the chances that I'd be able to re-use my original clutch cover gasket? I can slap some RTV silicone on it and a little seepage would be fine for the rest of this season, but I just don't want to leave a puddle everywhere I park.

So... Any chance at all, or am I being way too optimistic? :?:

 

Way too optimistic. If it's the original original, it's going to disintegrate on you. It's quite a complex gasket because of the breather "maze" cast into the cover. Have a new one standing by.

You'll have a bit of a challenge finding 20W40; but AutoZone carries Castrol 4T 20W50 plus I believe Havoline or Valvoline Motorcycle oil in 20W50.

 

Yeah, it's the original original and I was figuring it was overly optimistic. I was just thinking that I might go poking a little deeper into my rattle issues come this winter and didn't want to replace that gasket now only to replace it again in a few months.

I wasn't expecting it to be in great shape after I pulled that cover, but as long as it didn't come off with one part stuck to the cover and the rest still stuck to the side of the engine zebra stripe style.

Had to ask though. :wink:

 

That's precisely what it will do. I find that a dull #17 X-Acto Knife blade works quite well to get between the front of the clutch and the crankcase to get that bit of gasket off without chewing up the cases.

Look at the breather passages cast into the rear side of the clutch housing:




Look at the shape of the gasket:




See why it won't survive?

Don't overtorque the case bolts and you might be able to go through one or even two 'remove and replace' cycles; but don't count on it. I usually end up breaking them but I can usually get one re-use.

 

Fitz thats not your hand in the picture is it cause thats a tiny can

 

<Sigh...> Yeah, I figured.

So, I was out a little yesterday and came to the conclusion that the rattle seems loudest on the lower left side of the engine.

Haha! Or maybe I'm just imagining reasons NOT to pull that clutch cover off right now? :lol:

 

Did you change the oil yet?

CHANGE THE OIL. 20W50 if 20W40 not available.

Then decide if the clutch nut needs to be worried about.

 

No, not yet. No hurry either.

The weather here is crap for the foreseeable future. Not constant rain, but constant risk of getting caught in a thunderstorm.

 

Got a break in the weather today so I drained the 10W-40 and put in some Castrol 4T 20W-50 cycle oil.

Still rattles, but as expected, it's not as loud as with the 10W-40 that I drained. I'm not going to rip into anything right now. I'm thinking that I should ride while I can, and if I feel up to it, I'll pull the engine this winter and go looking for trouble.

Thanks for all your help Fitz!! 8)

 

Did you replace the oil filter too? If not, how old is the one that's in there?

You don't have to pull the engine to look in the clutch. Put the bike on the sidestand, you won't even lose any oil.

If the sound goes away or nearly goes away when you pull in the clutch, it has nothing to do with the HY-VO chain; the chain is still being driven by the motor, by pulling in the clutch you "disconnect" the transmission and half the clutch.

You are hearing transmission/clutch rattle, not the HY-VO chain itself.

You need to check the clutch to be sure it's not trying to come apart; this happened to me and also to one of our other members with a 550/600.

You also need to worry about keeping up on proper maintenance; don't tear apart a motor with only 10K miles on it and potentially ruin it when you won't even keep it properly maintained.

Adjust the cam chain and get the valves in spec; double-check your carb sync.

When was the last time you checked/adjusted the drive chain? Do you keep it lubed?

Staying on top of proper maintenance is a whole lot less complicated than ripping apart a motor that probably has nothing really wrong with it.

 

I put in a new oil filter when I first started looking into this. I didn't change it again when I traded the 10W-40 for 20W-50, but it had maybe 30 minutes on it.

Do you think there's any inspection I can do to the clutch to look for gross looseness of the entire assy that can be done through the oil fill hole? I can see the clutch, and I can stick a finger or screwdriver down there and I cannot rock the entire assy at all. In other words, it's not so loose that I can move it in any direction (in, out, angle, or rotate) with moderate force.

I'm pretty much on top of my other maintenance. I'm a little behind on my valve check, but other than that I'm OK.

 

Update... I pulled the clutch cover off and believe I found the source of my idle rattle. A wise man once said that "You are hearing transmission/clutch rattle, not the HY-VO chain itself" and I believe he is a wise man indeed.

Upon further investigation, I believe the source of my rattle is not the HY-VO chain at all, but is in fact caused by axial end play in my "primary driven gear". The primary driven gear (often referred to as the clutch "basket") must be free to rotate on the input shaft and I think the rattling noise I hear is the basket rattling around a little when it's not under load (like when it's idling in neutral). I think what I hear is the basket knocking against the limits of it's in-out (axial) travel.

I measured the basket end play to be .013 inches. I couldn't find any specs in the shop manual, so I have no idea if that's "excessive" or "expected", but I can tell you that I looked at everything under magnification and did not find anything worn. So unless a thrust washer has completely turned to dust and disappeared, it's been like that since new:



So... Non problem? I'm not so sure... Let me show you what else I found. While looking at everything under magnification, I noticed what appears to be cracks in the bronze bearing that the primary driven gear rotates on. Here's the back side of the gear:



Looking closely, it appears that the bearings are cracked:







I have no idea why they cracked. There's no signs of wear. No signs of heat or abuse. Nothing. I'm even wondering if they were put in at the factory as an intentional stress fracture point like putting crack grooves in a concrete slab. I don't know if those cracks are contributing to the rattle, or were caused by the basket slapping around.

Anyone else ever seen anything like this?

I took a look at Chacals parts list and the bearings are not called out for independantly. On the larger bikes they used a roller bearing there and you can buy it seperately, but on the 550 it does not appear that you can buy just the bearing. You have to buy the whole primary driven gear assembly.

Other things I determined while I was in there? My clutch boss nut was tight. The clutch disks themselves all look great, and to my complete amazement, my clutch cover gasket stayed with the cover instead of zebra striping half on the cover and half on the engine:

 

Dang.

No, those aren't "intentional stress fractures" those bushings are cracked. How is beyond me, since you're the original owner and it hasn't been abused or crashed right? But they are definitely cracked.

Find a low-mileage clutch on eBay. Any XJ550/600 will be the same; then use whichever hub is better with the "new" basket. I ended up with a basket from an FJ600 that got crashed with 3900 miles on the odo.

Finding low mileage parts: when you find a clutch you might want, click on "see other items." Invariably, the seller will have a whole bunch of stuff from the same bike, and either discuss the mileage or have the instrument cluster for sale.

Looks like you found your excessive rattle. Be sure you put the clutch back together with the tabs on the plain plates oriented correctly and the dot on the pressure plate aligned with the dot on the hub.

You might want to take the opportunity to fit new friction plates and pressure springs, just because of age.

How the bushings got cracked I can't even begin to fathom.

 

Double check this, but I'm pretty sure that Yamaha used the identical clutch on the following models, at least as far as the plates go, they used different actuation systems I think so like I said, do a little research and maybe save yourself a bundle on the parts that you need. For instance, you might find that a guy on fleabay selling his clutch for a different model(which happens to be exactly the same as yours) is selling his clutch for 10 bucks when all the clutches for your model are 50 or so....

• FJ 600; 1984, 1985
• FZ 600; 1986, 1987, 1988
• FZ6 (FZS600); 2004, 2005, 2006
• YZF 600 (R6); 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002
• YZF R6; 2003, 2004, 2005
• XJ 600 Seca II; 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998
• YX 600; 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990
• XJ 650 Maxim; 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983
• XJ 650 Midnight; 1981
• XJ 650 Seca / Seca Turbo; 1982, 1983
• FZX 700; 1986, 1987
• XJ 700 Maxim; 1985, 1986
• FZ 750; 1985, 1986
• XJ 750 Maxim; 1982, 1983
• XJ 750 Seca; 1981, 1982, 1983
• TDM 850; 1992, 1993
• XJ 900 Seca; 1983
FJ, FZ, FZ6, FZX, TDM, YZF (yes, the R6) & XJ's as listed all used the same clutch!!

jeff

 

Plates, maybe.

NOT the basket/primary driven gear ass'y.

The part that is needed is common to all of the 550s and the 600s. It's NOT the same as the bigger bikes.

 

Yeah, I didn't really think they were intentional stress lines either. What's interesting is that the inboard bushing has a distinct deep straight line on it and that's where it cracked. When I first saw it I thought it was an oil groove. It wasn't until I got it under magnification that I started to question the "on-purpose-ness" of it.

I cannot fathom why either. Yes, I'm the original owner. Babied since new. Never overheated. Never over-revved. Never crashed. Never stopped abruptly. Never run low on oil. Nothing.

But wait, wait... I'm not so sure the cracks are what are causing the rattle. The bushings are still a tight tolerance fit on the input shaft and I would have never suspected there was any problem there until I pulled the basket off. Those bushings are not what establishes axial end play. In operation, those bushings never contact anything other than the shaft they run around. In other words, new bushings would NOT decrease the end play.

So why would you think the are the cracks are CAUSING the rattle?
Maybe the cracks were caused BY the rattle?
Maybe they are unrelated? :?:

 

So I've been looking into the possibility that there are other Yamaha models that have pressed in bushings that I might be able to use. I haven't found a definitive replacement, but have turned up thrust washers that are used on other Yamahas.

Here's a RD 400 that uses a thrust washer 25mm ID, 50mm OD, 2mm thick that would do a great job spacing the 550 primary driven gear so that it wouldn't have so much axial play. Kinda makes you wonder why they never included that washer on the XJ550?

http://www.rd400.de/Dokumente/RD250_400 ... zteile.pdf

Here's an XT 550 that uses the same splined washer (as us) between the primary driven gear and the clutch boss. The interesting thing is that it actually looks correct.

http://digilander.libero.it/XT_550/Imag ... ofiche.PDF

The important part to all of this is that the shaft that goes through the center of the primary driven gear is 25mm so maybe some other Yamaha with "available and replacable" bushings which has an ID of 25mm would be a suitable alternative. Maybe the one from the RD400...

If it weren't for the oil groove in the bushing, I would just make a pair myself.

 

Why not simply find a low-mileage clutch on eBay for $10 or $20 and be done with it?

I don't think a small amount of end-play is what caused your problem; as many times as I've had a 550 clutch apart, I've never noticed any "excessive" end play in the basket, but there is a small amount.

Double-check the fiche, maybe your bike got assembled with a piece missing. Note that the big washer between the hub and basket will probably NOT look like the drawing; none of mine do.

 

What I find interesting about the thrust washers used on that RD400 is that they used two of them, one on each side of the primary driven gear, and each of them is 2mm (about .008 inches thick each). So, with no spec on end play, I have no basis for comparison, but it just seems odd that Yamaha used two washers each of which are about half the amount of end play that I have on my bike. They were obviously adjusting the end play to a sub-ten-thousandths level.

I've double checked the fische and I'm not missing anything. There is not "supposed" to be a thrust washer between the basket and the ball bearing on the input shaft. The basket is supposed to butt right against the inner race of that 6305 ball bearing. And on the outboard side, the only thing that is supposed to be between the basket and the boss is the splined washer "thrust plate" 3Y1-16154-00-00. The picture in the fische is wrong, but the one in the doc for that RT550 was a better picture and it listed the same part number.

 

So, if Yamaha was adjusting the end-play in the RD400 and you feel the need to "shim out" some of your end-play, then go for it. I can't see as to how it would hurt anything.

But I wouldn't re-use the basket with the split bushings.

 

Ummm... Yeah... About that RD400 shim. I slipped a decimal point.

They use a 2.0mm wide shim and I need a 0.2mm wide shim. I think the concept is still valid, but that's not the shim to use.

I think the only thing that could go wrong would be cutting it too close and not predicting what dimensions would go which way when hot. In other words, just because I have approx 0.013 inches axial play, I don't think it would be prudent to slip a 0.012 shim in there. I was thinking maybe .005 or .007 and see what happens.

But I don't think I'm going anywhere until I figure out what to do about the bearing.

 

Like I said, eBay.

In my case, the bike had fallen HARD on the right side, not while moving though; I think it fell off a trailer or truck. The brake lever had punctured the clutch cover. PO (or his minion, Guy I Bought It From, henceforth referred to as GIBIF) had repaired the cover, and replaced the brake lever. Nobody ever gave much thought to the clutch itself. When the lever came through the case, it HIT the basket (left an obvious gouge.) The clutch basket itself was bent. GIBIF swore he hadn't noticed anything, like the extreme vibration as soon as you let the clutch out.

I got an FJ600 clutch assembly off eBay for $20. Bike had 3900 miles on it when wrecked. Only used the basket, as most of the plain plates burnt blue anyway.

$20. I was just poking on eBay yesterday; it can still be done (but be careful.) If I was in your shoes, another clutch would already be on its way.

 

Yeah, I've got stuff from GIBIF as well. I'm not sure if he's clueless or dishonest, but I too have often been less than satisfied.

I went poking on ebay last night and there's no shortage of baskets that will fit. Cheapest I found with a cursory look was the basket only (no disks) for $30 shipped.

But you said "be careful". Careful of what?

 

Careful of broken, worn or incorrectly-listed parts. There's at least one 650 or 750 unit right now that's listed as being for a "550/650/750" which simply isn't true.

You should be able to do better price-wise, or for that price, you can get a whole clutch assembly.

 

So to clarify what fits and what doesn't... Is this list accurate?

1981-83 XJ550nnn
1984-85 FJ600nnn
1986-88 FZ600nnn
1986-90 RADIAN - YX600nnn
1992-98 SECA II - XJ600nnn

Condensed from: http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/yamah ... 01-00.html

 

Yeppers; that's what the fiche says.

Widens your search a bit...

 

Update: I bought two clutch baskets off ebay, and my suspicions were correct... Those bushings are supposed to be that way. It's not a crack, it's a slot put in there on purpose by the manufacturer.

So, not being able to leave well enough alone, and since I now have a plethora of 550 clutch baskets, I took one of them apart. I pressed the bushings out for a better look:







So, I'm not sure what I'm going to do at this point. All indications are that I've been chasing a non-problem this whole time, and I should simply get over it. Only reason I've invested any time in it to date is that (since I've owned this bike since new) I know that it did not used to sound that noisy. If it weren't for that, I'd be able to write it off easily.

I think I'm going to put it back together with my original basket and get back to square one. In any event, I don't think anything is in grave danger of catastrophically failing, so maybe I'll mess with end play in the off season.

Crap. I hate mysteries.

 

Ya think? Actually, only sorta. Just chased it up the wrong tree, and because it's so small you couldn't see it.

-Be sure you use the tightest-fitting bushing when reassembling, why not?

-Stick to 20W-whatever oil unless you're actually riding when it's below 41 out.

-GET your valves in spec. You know they're overdue.

Think about this:

The engine itself (carbs and ignition aside) is a big air pump. A four cylinder air compressor "running backwards" (powering instead of being powered) but a big 4-cylinder air pump nonetheless.

The VALVES control the air flowing into and out of this air pump. Over time, as those valves slowly go out of spec, and the duration and timing of their opening and closing changes, they will change the smoothness of the air pump. As the engine runs relatively less smoothly than before, EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T NOTICE IT, it's going to affect how much "rattling" goes on in the primary transmission.

If you put the valves back in spec, and consequently re-sync the carbs, that air pump will do its job more smoothly than it was, WHETHER YOU NOTICE IT OR NOT. But I guarantee the clutch and trans will rattle less.