scratch on the outer clutch basket, hard to pull clutch?

so, last week I started a Topic that it was rediculously hard to pull in my clutch, bout 50lbs pressure needed. It happened in the beginning of a 100 mile ride.

Since then I went on vacation, broke a toe, and finally tore it down last night.

upon inspection I noticed the tips of the Outer Clutch Basket (I know that it has a Real name but I don't know what it is) show signs of hitting the case on the right side, as you can see in the pic. While everything was still assembled, I noticed this Outer Clutch basket can be wiggled about 1mm. Everything else checked out OK as far as I can see.

2 things:
- could this be the reason for the clutch being hard to pull in? (I don't think so)
- behind that center disk is a Large Skinny Bearing, I'm thinking that bearing being worn could be the only reason this part wiggles.
whdaya ya'll think?
thanks

 

Wow, you tore down your broken toe, kewl. Pictures?

You know, it takes a really tough person to be able to operate on themselves like that.......an XJ type of person!

Now, about that clutch: that interference with the front of the engine case doesn't look right. And if the top/outer edges of the basket fingers show contacts with the clutch cover, that's never a good thing. Call BigFitz, he may have some better answers and insights......

 

thanks Len, those fingers aren't touching the clucth cover, just the spot on the case in the right side of the pic

Need to know if that SLIGHT Wiggle should be there. without the wiggle that finger couldn't contact the case. I guess the answer is 'No' but I'm alone on this thing and want to discuss it

I'm thinking of using the toe as control button on the bars lol

 

Did you do any service work on the clutch just before this problem started?

 

Behind that DISC (Thrust Plate) ... Should be a:
SPACER (P/N 4H7-16181-00-00-SPACER)
Bearing
Collar
Thrust Washer. Small

Take that Disc off ... look in there for how it all seats ... line-up the Basket ... and press it back where it belongs

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/parts/home.aspx

 

Len, yes I replaced the clutch basket w/ a used one off ebay from a '81 650 and replaced the friction disks (not the metal ones)

Rick, I did that and this rear large cage (whatever its called) is still wiggling the tiniest bit

 

why did you replace the clutch basket? i hope you didn't throw it away
maybe put the old one in and see if it has play

 

Your basket is "orbiting" it should not drag. You need to investigate.

The basket CAN wobble until the hub is in place and the nut snugged up. Do that, then unplug your TCI, drape a rag over the general area (TRUST ME) and hit the starter. See if the basket "orbits" (wobbles?) during its rotation. When I got my '83, it had a bent clutch basket due to a right-side tipover; the brake arm had come through the case and BENT the clutch basket.

You just replaced the basket. Maybe you latched onto a bad part. I bought one whole clutch off eBay and one of the fingers was broken off the basket. For $10 I wasn't going to fuss, both the hub (sold it for $15) and the plain plates were perfect.

Reinstall the hub, snug the nut, and see if the basket spins "true." If not, get back on eBay. Sorry.

One additional tip: If you do clutch work on the sidestand, you will lose little or no oil (except during the "spin test" above. Be sure to drape a rag.)

 

Ok thanks guys. the clutch basket was replaced because I over-torqued the clutch spring bolts and broke two off in the original basket.

I found the wobble when it was all assembled. dissasembled, reassembled and it's still there. I can spin the Clutch Basket and it spins true. BUT, this larger one (in the pic) turns with the motor.

I drained Most of the fluid into a turkey pan cause it's brand new. guess I have to do that since I can't spin that with my hand.

I'll post results, thanks!

 

$5 says you got a bent basket, sorry again. The inner piece is the hub, be sure that's in place and the nut at least good and snug (no need to torque it and install the tab washer) to test. And be sure you unplug the TCI, if it lights up oil will go EVERYWHERE. It's bad enough just spinning the clutch with the starter. (Drape that rag.)

 

So could a bent bent basket be the cause of the handle to hard to pull in?

I need to mention now, I only replaced the Hub from the ebay assembly, this is the original basket. Sorry for the confusion

 

A bent basket will be the cause of all sorts of issues. Yes, it would make operation stiff especially once the bike is warm.

If it's out of round enough to be hitting the inside of the case, it's not right.

If the HUB is turning "true" then the shaft isn't bent since the hub sits further out on the shaft and would wobble worse than the basket if the shaft were bent.

The bent basket is probably what accelerated the wear on the original hub.

 

OK, I spund the motor w/ the starter button with the original Basket and new Hub. the basket proved straight but that 1mm wiggle is there when the Hub is snugged up w/ the nut.

then I tried the basket that came with the ebay clutch/hub assembly.
I never ever turned the motor cause the wiggle was exactly the same, and the basket finger had the same proximity to the case wall (right of photo above.

I lined up the two baskets on top of each other and they are identical

as mentioned above, the only way I can see 'wiggle room' is the large bearing that goes in the basket center is going bad/getting worn. but when the basket's on the bench, and I have the bearing and color inside it, there's no wiggle - at all.

I just looked at the pics in the manual and read the entire clutch reassembly section and it's exactly the same as what I'm doing.

I have a wiggle problem

 

CORRECTION. there is a teeeeney wiggle in the bearing.

I dissamebled and reassembled 5 more times, still a wiggle.

I put the basket on the bench, slid in the bearing and colar, and tried to manipulate a wiggle while push/pulling on the collar. after careful observation, I can see a teeney weeney wiggle. Which, I'm sure, by the time you get to the circumfrence of the baskets diameter, translates to the 1mm wiggle I'm observing.

going to look at the price of that bearing now. Do you guys think I can use the original colar and inner basket bushing with a new bearing (I think I can)? I don't see or feel and scoring on said items.

Thanks

 

Setting the baskets on top of each other isn't the test. The "bentness" I'm referring to is the basket itself being bent in relation to its own bearing holding surface.

The excessive runout WON'T show up until the hub is on and the nut snugged down. The bearing will have some "wiggle" until installed and the hub snugged down.

I still think you need to look at the runout of BOTH baskets, with the hub on and the nut snugged. Maybe check each basket with BOTH hubs, checking every time with the nut snugged up good. Something's not straight, and if the hub is spinning true, like I said, then the shaft is OK.

Have you swapped the big flat washer (spacer) with the grooves in it? Maybe you have a bent one, or one that is worn odd.

Just grasping at straws now. Let us know if you don't figure it out; not giving up until we get it fixed.

 

ok, the bearing is 65 bucks, lets get to work.

Fitz, when I spin the motor with everthing snug the hub spins very slowly from the drag, i can stop it with my hand of course. never the less, I kept the motor spinning for about 7 seconds and the hub looks true.

the original basket has been snug & spun, and it's also true to round - for sure.

what I haven't tried is snugging up the old Hub and seeing if the wiggle of the basket is still there. the spring threads are stripped in it though...

ok, took a 5 min break and just tried snugging up the old hub, wiggle of the basket (& only the basket) is still there.

Note: when the basket is slid on the shaft, colar and bearing in place, if I hold/push the large disk against the assembly, just like the Hub would. I can see the wiggle coming from the bearing...

the replacement ebay assembly didn't come with the large disk, but mine has no ridges or scores, only marks from it's mating surfaces. the manual says to put that large disk with the grooves facing out, but mine has grooves on both sides. anyway, I tried both sides, and both are perfectly smooth

 

I still think you got ahold of a bent basket. How about swapping the bearings between the two? I'd hate to see you drop the $65 only to have to go basket-hunting again.

 

OK, I'm home and just realized we're "beyond my pay grade."

The 550/600 basket sits on a BUSHING on the shaft, and has a lot smaller gear on the back. I can only speak from experience on the 550.

The 650/750 (and probably 900) uses the bearing and collar; I haven't had the 650's clutch apart yet.

Having enough "wobble" to hit the case isn't right; if the basket isn't obviously "orbiting" (maintaining a fixed high/low spot, like what happened to mine) but actually wobbling then it could be the bearing OR the race in the basket or both. If it's a true wobble, get a new bearing and hope for the best.

Worst case scenario: You replace the bearing and have to get back on eBay for another clutch basket.

 

Yeah but your making me a better mechanic!

You think running 10W 40 could make the cluth hard to pull? Doubt it, just spit balling.

 

Doubtful; 10W40 is a recommended weight, at least in colder temps.