Selling a bike? Letting someone take a test ride? Read this:

I have posted a liability waiver in the FAQ Suggestions section titled: Test Drive / Ride Liability Waiver
http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=37718.html

A recent tragic event (no one hurt, bike traumatized) which happened to a member here suggests that this is something to which all should have access and knowledge.

Included are 3 other conditions which I would require were anyone to want to test ride a bike of mine.

 

I for one appreciate your efforts but I would absolutely recommend against letting anyone take YOUR motorcycle for a ride until and unless they have handed you the full price in cash, both parties have executed a sales agreement (bill of sale) and it is now THIER motorcycle.

Unfortunately, with the litigious society that we live in, signing a waiver does not guarantee that you will have no issues if they damage or total your bike, then claim that because of a flaw in the bike, you put their life in danger and sue the crap out of you. After all, everything you read and hear today tells people that they are NEVER responsible for their own actions so you can bet that if they go down, chances are that they will want their money back and may come looking for more.

Motorcycles are not cars, there is an inherent danger in riding them and an endorsement doesn't even begin to tell you how well they ride or how much they do or do not respect other people’s property, etc.

All in all, it just isn't worth it. I buy and sell a lot of bikes and it has never been an issue. Very occasionally someone will ask "can I ride it?" and when I reply "you can when it's yours"with a smile, the subject is dropped and they either buy it or not but I don't think that I've ever lost a sale over it and I'm not taking that kind of risk.

JMHO

jeff

 

Although I don't blame someone for being worried about liability, If I can't ride it and it is priced as a running bike I won't even go look. There are enough sellers who will allow rides, and too many people who exaggerate the condition of their bike.

 

I've test ridden several bikes when shopping.... I Highly doubt I'd buy one without riding it first. Although, I understand it both ways... seller has to protect himself too. I've seen it every which way with sellers. You got the "sure, go ahead, take the keys" the "OK, but just down the block + back" the "when I have cash in hand" and the "absolutely not" guess it really comes down to how much you trust others and how much they trust you.... Both Biff and Jeff are right on this one....

 

Jeff,
I understand your thoughts, but I wouldn't go to quite the extreme of executing a bill of sale for a test ride. Note that I did say at least a check in the rider's name for the amount of the bike. Yes, checks can be bad and they can do things like stop payments, but bad checks are a criminal offense and I don't believe filing a criminal charge costs anything ... I expect most would rather honor the check and face up to their liability than deal with a cop at the door with an arrest warrant, booking, jail till hearing if they can post bail, etc. ...

Also, if you make it TOO difficult, people won't buy it. Personally, I prefer to strike a reasonable balance between self protection and risk ... otherwise, I wouldn't ride a bike in the first place ...

JMilliken, thanks for your comment. I don't see it as a question of being "right" but each must decide where their comfort zone is. This is a tool for those who want to protect themselves a bit more. To be perfect, of course, it should cover all third party claims (family, etc.), checked over by an attorney to make sure everything is covered and legal, and in execution, would probably have to be notarized ... but ... one can only go so far without a law degree (sadly) in this country. It should be as simple as:

I (state your name) accept any and all risks of this trial and absolve the seller of any and all responsibility and liability other than that caused by fraud, deceit, or known and undisclosed defect on the part of the seller. This extends to all possible claims by me or any third parties and I agree to accept full liability of any and all damage or injuries occurred during the course of this trial.
Signed ....

Even that is excessively wordy for what SHOULD be required in a just society. Sadly, we live not in a Just society but rather a society ruled by an obscene body of cased based laws with little or no thought to justice, fairness, sanity, or what SHOULD be. There is an all too true axiom that the depravity of a culture can be measured as a direct proportion to the size of its legal code. AS we have one of the largest legal codes in the world, just what does that say about our society?

 

No, I think that maybe I didn't make myself clear. I personally, would not write a bill of sale for letting someone ride one of my bikes simply because I would not let someone ride one of my bikes, nor would I ever take a check in payment. Experienced buyers know this and always bring cash because they know that a deal can be made with cash....not so with a check.

The long and short of it is that there is no right or wrong. I have watched this same discussion crop up on nearly every forum that I belong to and the bottom line is "what are you as a seller, comfortable with?" It honestly has no impact on me if someone lets a prospective buyer take his pride and joy out for a spin and things go badly. Its their own fault and usually at that point, they will have figured it out.

I deal in older bikes...and my typical buyer knows exactly what he's looking at and is not a new rider. He also respects a man of his word so if he asks if all the gears work, he knows he's being told the truth. I bought a number of bikes last year.......never rode them till they were running ....sold them all to buyers who bought sight unseen except one who drove down from Pa to buy a Z1 from me.

Again, no right or wrong.....

jeff

 

Sadly, not all people are so honest. My brother recently purchased a car via eBay. One of his pre-purchase questions, among others, was how the alignment of the car was. Seller responded it was fully, properly, recently aligned. Upon inspection, however, it was discovered that the tie rods on both sides were so worn it was literally impossible to align the wheels as there was simply too much slop. In addition, it turned out that "no rust" meant "no rust we haven't attempted to hide by brushing off the rust and slapping some paint on top of it without even sealing the metal underneath so it was already rusting again." The car was sold as being in operating condition, of which there are certain legal requirements in most states, such as warning lights, turn signals, etc., all must work. Hazards didn't work, rear brake lights didn't work, rear coil spring on left side broken, both leaf springs broken, etc. Multiple issues all of which rendered the vehicle non-op from a legal perspective individually, let alone as a whole. He also recently purchased a motorcycle with certain "known" issues which were readily addressable. Known issues (to the seller) which weren't disclosed were: boots to airbox and manifold severely cracked, turn signals not working, seat rail broken at the bolts but hidden by tightening the bolts down *really* hard, etc.

Yes there are honest people like you and I. Then there are the dishonest people just trying to rip you off and you have to beware. I have learned my lesson: I won't purchase bike or car without an independent inspection unless I have knowledge of the seller. Cash will not exchange hands until inspection. Any undisclosed damages will either be taken off the sales price or the sale cancelled.

So you and I would have a hard time completing a sale: I wouldn't give you cash unless I could ride it (if sold as rideable) and have it inspected. I would give you a check to hold as collateral and then exchange for cash if I purchased. I'd be willing to show the cash that would redeem the check. That is what I would expect from anyone purchasing a bike from me. I won't take a check as payment, but I would as collateral for the test ride along with their license.

With my XJ700X purchase, I don't have too many complaints, overall, other than the PO was an utter moron. I bought the bike so cheap and technically as a parts bike that I really can't complain. It wasn't rideable at the time and I knew it. The frustrating part was finding just how severely the PO had screwed the thing up simply being an idiot, such as frying the TCI with his stupid rewiring. Even after parts and repairs are all said and done, I got it for well under market value. It has just taken much longer and much more money than I had expected to accomplish it.

The other sellers I have dealt with have all been reasonably straight forward and I have no complaints. In every case but one, it was sold as a bike needing work to be rideable. There are things I would do differently now as far as checking the bike/having it inspected that I didn't do then, but again, I haven't had any try to defraud me. Perhaps that is because I have used Craigslist as a primary source rather than eBay? My eBay experience with motor vehicles has not been good. The only purchase I have made there turned out to be a case of fraud (a mini-van with supposedly no rust, etc, which was in fact so rusted underneath that a couple places simply wrote the estimate as a total loss and that they would not undertake repairs if they had the opportunity. Fortunately, with the eBay buyer protection, I was able to recover my loss, although it did take a fair amount of paperwork and hassle getting the vehicle inspected by different places who weren't too interested in doing an estimate as they knew they weren't going to get any work from it. 95% of my other eBay transactions have been fine. I am not likely to try more vehicles, however.

Regarding test rides, I have to wonder though, I would think that one person or the others' insurance would cover any damage occurred on a test ride. I just don't know whose.