Someone help please

I mistakenly already posted this in the test zone but did not receive any replies so here goes another shot..I bought a xj 650 that the PO got rid of the start button along with the kill switch, and tried to wire it like a car ignition no buttons just turn key...Well I guess that was the plan but its not working out like he thought it would..
As it sits the blue white wire that plugs into the starter solenoid is plugged into the ignition switch that gets hot when they key is turned passed on and to the start position, the red and white wire is that plugs into the solenoid is grounded with this set up I turn the key and the bike will turn over but im not gettin any power to my coils..
Im not sure if this is hooked up right or not if this type of car style ignition can even be used on my bike???

 

The bike switch won't work for that. A car ign. switch with a Start position could be used if it was wired up properly but unless you are an expert on car wiring, and it doesn't sound like you are, I suggest you get the manual and follow the wiring diagram to put all the wires back where they are supposed to be.

 

a car ign switch is what was used, and no im no wiring expert but i am gonna figure out how to wire this right if its the last thing i do....

 

What im trying to find out is what is the proper way to use a car ign switch with a start position???

 

So if when i put my key in the ign and turn it to start it turns over but will not start because i dont have any power to my coils..does this mean its wired right since it is turnin over tryin to start or is the no power to the coils because of the ign bein wired like it is???

 

No. It means that you need to buy a used ignition switch and used handlebar control and bag the Walt Disney's star-rodent hook-up.
Mickey-Mousing it up, more, isn't the right thing to do. Getting it back to the way its supposed to be is the right thing to do.

There are baskets full of used ignitions and handlebar controls on eBay.
The ignition switch, itself, might very well be universal to a great many Yamaha models made for over two decades!

If you get what you need ... I'll draw-up the wiring hook-up for you in the right color codes. Not that you'd need it ... the handlebar control is "Plug-'n-play" and the ignition switch comes with a pigtail and connector for "Plug-'n-play" ... but, might be missing the "Plug" part ... which I might very well have ... and will send to you for FREE!

Do it up right, brother!

 

I'll agree with Rick on this one xjchoppa, this is one thing you don't want to monkey with if you don't know what you are doing. Could start a fire and/or screw up your electrical system. My advice, along with Rick's, is to make the investment in a Haynes manual (so you have help right now) and the XJCD (so you'll have more help later). The book will show you, very clearly, what wires go where. I do hope that the PO did not hack your harness too badly, but from the sounds of things, I'm doubtful. It may well be you need to get a new harness if it is too far gone. Arrghh, what some people do in the name of being different. Of course you might take this as the opportunity to learn electricity at the local college and make lemonade out of lemons. Up to you, hope it all works out in the end. Best of luck to you and, should you have any wiring questions, feel free to ask. I LOVE wiring.

 

Luckily a haynes manual did come with the bike and the PO also gave me a wiring diagram with everything he cut out circled..
Now I do know from previous experiences that stock is usually the best something will run and everything function properly..

From the wiring diagram I have been trying to decode(for me its like tryin to read german)the blue and white wire that goes into the starter solenoid is the one that was originally on the start button and is temporarily grounded when you push it,right??
So the red and white wire that also plugs into the solenoid gets hot when you turn the key on in the original configuration, I think..which in turn puts juice to the coils??
Unfortunately a new harness is out of the question right now and im just tryin to make the best out of what I have.So im gonna ask the two experts who so generously took time to help me out what are my options..I listed above how its wired now blue and white wire gets hot in start pos red and white wire grounded..I know thats wrong but dont know whats right or what the he** the PO was thinking.

 

Let's do like they do when they bring a bloody patient in to the hospital emergency room! Cut the bloody pants leg open and see how bad the wound is.

First, pull all your fuses and then unhook the battery.

Get a screwdriver and take-off the headlight. Un-plug the connector on the back of the headlight bulb and put the headlight aside.

Take a few pictures of what the wiring looks like inside the headlight bucket. If you feel confident enough to do so ... unplug the signal lights and the pigtail connection to the instruments. Tape them aside or pull them out of the headlight bucket so the photographs will show us what's been done inside there -- ignition wise.

Chances are ... it's not going to be all that bad. We'll be able to tell you what your situation is and what to do after we get a few close-up pictures of how things are hooked-up in there.

If you have the skill and tools ... get that car ignition off the bike, leaving all the Yamaha wiring untouched, but removing anything that looks OBVIOUSLY not put-in there by Yamaha. If you don't know for sure ... leave it!

We'll get you back to stock.

We're going to make you a Restoration Pro!

 

Tecnical wrap , apart from the warnings above , the positon on the switch is the key [excuse the pun] , first you'll have a batt post [so batt to there, fixed], then the next turn will be ignition [so all ign wires to there ,fixed] , then you'll have a post that only is temporary [it will not stay there] , so the starter wire goes to that , use a multimeter with a lead on continuity between the batt and the start post to find it , as mentioned its momentary.

momentary is your issuse i think...the others are a fixed position.

 

I'm bowing-out of this discussion. The A-Number-One reason that the ignition on the motorcycle is two-staged ... with the power separate from the start function is SAFETY.

Over the years, even the car makers have built-in extra safety features to their auto ignitions to prevent the start motor from engaging without a remote safety switch being closed first. (Brake pedal, Shifter in Park or Neutral or safety belt fastened.)

Motorcycles have separate START buttons and KILL switches to PREVENT the possibility that the STARTER >> WILL << engage when the Ingition is switched ON to close the ignition circuit and start the motorcycle.

The obvious risks to Life and Limb too numerous to mention.

Best of Luck. You'll be needing some.

 

Point well said ricko so be careful , and apart from the fact that the [safety device] in most cars 1900 to 1980's was and still is the operator .

How many older tin tops have one driven that once in vehikkle all one has to do is >put in key and turn , if in gear , put in clutch >automatic ,see if in park > , check if handbrake is on...

Most of these newer safety are for those that "all they know is turn key thing starts" . fuel goes in that hole and anything else take to shop.

Motorcyikkle , who would try to start bike still in gear or without pulling in da clutch? without at least first checking? or try take off with sidestand still down , yes ther"re out there alright , those devices are to protect them.

As far as the ignition switch is concerned the power IS seperate from the start function , one has to turn it further to start , does one when in tin top think of safety when turn key to start? old or new.

Says alot for the human mekkanikal race.

yes i have took off with sidestand down and yes tried to start when in gear and yes forgot to put feet down and yes forgot to turn corner

 

ADDendum to this too , from above.

REMEMBER when VCR'S came out and for many years later , when you flipped up the front flap where the tape went in , there was [in them days] a light on inside glowing , that light was a used by sensors to let the box know a tape was in , a 40c 12v globe , well when globe blew vcr no work , user took to get it fixed , got a bill of generally half the price of a new one with the claim of it needed a full service and alignment , that was so common a event that the manufacturers had to come up with another way and now they use leds.

above happened not to every machine or by every repairer as some machine's "might" have needed a full service , but the blend of real and not real servicing sure was a common event.

One could not prove any different.

Heeps more things like that for ages , especially car stuff even in the 1900's , things like new spark plugs/oil filters and stuff that never happened , To people that did not know where the bonnett catch was even , easy meat.

Out here ford xd-xf models [span 10years] a 2 dollar rubber hose that joined the vac pipe from manifold to the auto kickdown on the automatik ALLways perished/leaked with Very common symptoms , yet how many times did "the automatik needs a overhaul" , costing 600 bills , for a 2 dollar hose. put vehikkle on hoist , put new hose on , clean automatik just in case someone looks underneath.

One could not prove any different.

Motorcyckkles , need new cam chain , some say remove motor , split cases , fit new chain , assemble , not do it the other easy way , and the meat gets charged many 100's for a dollars job.

One could not prove any different.

It ain't the machine's ya gotta look out for , it's those alien human b#st#rds , but if pay no attention to the machine world then one is in their hands.

Most times "Machine" is designed to break/wear out , especially lately.

I might get off the keyboard soapbox for abit now as i is much better...

 

I'll agree with Rick and one up him.

The kill switch is there for a reason. In an emergency you may need to shut her down without removing your hand from the bar (like if the throttle sticks open).

Quit trying to make someone elses bad idea work. Hit eBay and get some proper switches.

 

I do not know if people realize this but the kill switch IS seperate , so even if one put in a different ign switch the damn kill switch IS still gunna work. paranoya!.

 

you my boy hoonz

 

Another thing to consider, isn't the start position on a car ignition a seperate contact completely? If the ignition circuit power runs through the key switch (i'm not sure) won't you need to run ignition power through the START contacts as well as the RUN contacts to power the TCI during start? I'm not 100% on the ignition circuit, I don't have my manual with me at work...

 

Yes the start position is another post completely, I havent checked yet if ignition post stays hot when turned to start if not than that would be a problem but im pretty sure the ignition post stays hot anytime the key is on or in start position..Another question is what do I do with the blue and white wire that ran to the original start button because from what I understand is that when you push the start button it would temporarily be grounded???And what color are the wires that I should have hooked up to the ignition post??

 

The only reason i brought that up is because my cars radio cuts out when turned to the start position, but back on during the on position, so that would suggest they are not still live, i'm not sure about the colors though i don't have a manual with me, but the start switch should have a wire going to the solonoid (blue and white?) and another wire going to ground, to energize the start relay, both should now hook to the car ignition START position. I also thought i'd mention that I would try to get it back to original, as it is far easier to be able to press the start button and work the throttle at the same time, while holding the clutch in with the left. But, I also understand the desire to modify, as i'm currently trying to wire my volkswagen up with a seperate start switch (more like a bike). All because i found a cool switch cover at work one day. So i'll hopefully be able to look at a schematic soon and see what I can see.

 

Your car ignition switch should have power in, accessory, ignition and start connections (maybe more).

If you turn the switch(key) backward only the acceory connection gets power.

The next position is off, nothing gets power.

The On position powers the accessory and ignition circuits.

The Start position powers the ignition and start circuits. Accessories are disconnected to make more power available for cranking.

If the original start switch works by grounding the starter circuit then you won't be able to use the automotive switch to start the engine unless you wire in an extra relay to ground the bike starter circuit.

 

Good point MiCarl , this still gets back to the "type" of switch and how it "operates" , .

A mutimeter or other device and checking how it operates will explain all quickly.