starter free spinning

hey guys one quick question real fast if my starter is just free spinning, wont even try to turn over the motor would that be a sign of a bad clutch gear? i just bought this 85 maxim x xj700 it was great for about a month after that it went all to hell i've been having electrical problems i'm still having issues with finally got the starter working but it engages as soon as i turn the key on there is one black wire that is not hooked up to anything if i touch it to the negative on the battery it will quit spinning so i'm completely lost i checked the fuses behind the light they all seem to be fine. any thoughts or opinions would be great.

thanks guys.

 

The starter in these bikes "engages" via a sprag clutch (one-way "clutch") which is extremely sensitive to the use of incompatible motor oils.

It also depends on a nice strong starter. If the starter is spinning weakly it won't always engage.

But start with the OIL.

MOTORCYCLE-specific, conventional oil, such as Castrol 4T is recommended; you can use 20W50 in place of the recommended 20W40, or 10W30 for COLDER TEMPS.

Automotive oils and most synthetics, even motorcycle-specific, can cause starter-clutch slippage big time.

A worn out or broken starter clutch is the last item on the list. Lots of things above it. Which is good, because replacing it involves splitting the crankcases.

 

You could have a bad starter clutch or the wrong oil. If the oil isn't wet clutch motorcycle specific, it can cause the starter clutch to slip and the tranny clutch to slip.
Trying to crank when turning the key on could be a bad ignition switch, solenoid or a stuck start button. Low battery voltage could be a factor for the solenoid and start button.
Where is the extra black wire located on the bike? You need to get a good manual with a wiring schematic.

 

i drained the oil and havn't gotten it to start back sense i put it back in i know i need to drain it again and get 10w 40 i have 20w 50 in it now. the black wire is coming out of the wire harness running along the left side of the bike also when i touch it to the positive it makes the starter run faster. and when i push the starter button in the starter will quit trying to spin.

 

You need to quit hooking the wire to hot or ground and find out what or where it goes. You may cause other problems. My 700 is a air head and the wiring isn't the same as your x model. The black wires on mine are ground related, but could be different on yours. Someone may have tapped into the harness and used the only color wire they had.
Do you have a volt meter/multimeter? Test lights only tell you that current is present, but not how much.

 

Don't use 10W40. And don't use "car" oil.

 

just tested the black wire what ever it is it's negative i'm guess a ground i put the red lead on the positive battery and the black lead on the wire and got a full reading vice versa got around 1 volt. alright. should i get rid of the 20w 50 and try a thinner viscosity for the winter or should the 20w50 sludge up a little and help grab the gears better?

 

alright stupid question but i really don't know know. the guy that had it before me had a speaker wire as a ground wire the idiot actually thought that would work it burned up after a little bit and thats what started alot of the problems. but does the ground wire go from the bike to the negative terminal on the battery or to the solenoid?

 

The GROUND wire goes to the negative battery terminal. The HOT lead goes to the solenoid. The other large wire coming off the solenoid goes to the starter.

 

thats what i've always thought. but on the bike the negative cable runs straight to the starter from the battery. the black wire i was talking about if i put it on the - battery it just starts to melt.

 

i should have mentioned the start button quit on me so the only way i have to try and start the bike is off the solenoid or off the starter

 

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thats what i've always thought. but on the bike the negative cable runs straight to the starter from the battery. the black wire i was talking about if i put it on the - battery it just starts to melt.
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the thick black wire that attaches to the starter motor is "positive" its coloured black to blend in with the frame, it comes from the positive side of the battery via the solenoid (red wires) yeh, confusing ,i know.
the other cable is melting because it is beeing shorted because you got the main battery cables crossed

 

hmm along with the diagrams that makes sense but with the starter it doesn't when i ground it out to test it i have to ground the positive on the starter and hit it with the negative for power vise versa i get nothing.

 

It sounds like the engine-to-frame ground strap(s) may be missing as well.

The starter is supposed to be grounded through its case, and the big lead is the positive lead.

 

not sure what that is. there are only 2 things hooked up to the battery the starter on the negative side and the solenoid on the positive side.

 

If the PO, PM, or yourself have taken the starter motor apart and not assembled it properly, it may be that the motor is spinning backwards and therefore no combination of starter clutch, oil, or other measures will solve the problem until the stator and brushes are realigned.

Perhaps this is NOT the case, but something you may seriously want to consider if the PO had said at any point they worked on it and it wouldn't start afterwards.

 

This is incorrect. And why you're melting wires.

The big wire off the starter should go to one of the big terminals on the solenoid. That is the power lead for the starter. It does NOT go to the battery.

The HOT lead off the battery should go to the other big terminal on the solenoid. The solenoid can then switch power to the starter when activated.

The NEG battery lead goes to GROUND. FRAME GROUND. Generally a lug in the vicinity of the battery box mounts. There should also be a ground strap from the back of the motor to the same frame grounding point.

The starter gets grounded through its case; the motor needs to be grounded to the frame for that to work.

BATTERY HOT (+) ----- SOLENOID ----- STARTER.

BATTERY NEG (-) ----- FRAME GROUND ----- ENGINE CASE.

 

does that sound right or crazy? the starter wont turn over if you put positive power to it it has to have negative straight from the battery. i ordered a cd manual on the bike wish i could have found a real manual.. but i'm still waiting on it to get here.

 

See my response above; it's NOT RIGHT.

Remove the starter completely. Using a set of jumper cables, attach the NEG lead to the case, and touch the POS lead to the wire lug. The starter should spin.

 

this isn't rocket science.
+ battery to either side of the solenoid.
the other side of the solenoid to the bolt on the side of the starter.
- battery to the engine.
that's all there is too it

 

alright then. well like i said earlier when i took the starter off and bench tested it with the battery cables the only way it would spin was with the positive grounded and the negative on the bolt wire feed so i guess it is backasswards but that has been the way it has always spun and the way the gear in side spins. so i dont know ya'll don't get aggravated with me this is my first bike and the guy turned it into a nightmare he had neons on it that didn't work and a speaker wire for a ground.

 

yea that first post i didn't see the second page of posts sorry.

 

on the bench i think a starter should run either way, forward or backwards.
look at the battery and make sure the big red wire is on the + side of the battery

 

yea the red wire from the solenoid has stayed on the positive i have just had the starter to the battery and the ground to the solenoid. i've just been guess and checking no true diagram or pictures to go by.

 

alright thanks guys the bike is running now sounds good. i feel stupid for not thinking about the negative being the ground didn't even think about putting the starter on the solenoid but trial and error you learn something new everyday thats why we have questions and people who help answer that so thanks guys now i just have to figure out why my start button wont work i have followed it and the connections and fuses look good so i don't know.

 

big_rob420,

Is the EARTH GROUND that BF mentioned connected? Also, you may want to remove your control switch and visually inspect the contact plate at the button.

Gary