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Steering, Tapered bearings issues.

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by broberg, May 22, 2013.

  1. broberg

    broberg Member

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    Hi all,

    I'm having some mild headache over my new tapered bearings..

    the first I noticed was that the top race didn't fit as snug as the previous one.
    Secondly when I then attempted to put it all together the threads didn't show on the stem!

    So first I've mailed Xj4ever to ask what size his tapered bearings are (so I can se if the ones I got is a match so they don't are off).

    Secondly, is there anyone who have a picture of the stem without any seals and/or bearings for the xj550 seca? I have a.. spacer, it looks like anyway on the bottom of the stem, And I wonder if that is really supposed to be there.
     
  2. zombiehouse

    zombiehouse Member

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    Before you installed the new bearings, did you remove the old bottom bearing race from the lower tree? How did you get the new bearings to slide down the lower tree? Maybe you didn't get them seated all the way down.
     
  3. broberg

    broberg Member

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    Yes, the bottom bearing race was removed before I sent the frame of to powder. And the new one is seated properly (snug as a bug in a rug).

    And the new bearing is flush with the bottom of the stem, (as far as it looks, And I can't spin the dust seal at all)
     
  4. zombiehouse

    zombiehouse Member

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    Just trying to understand your problem, so I have another question or so. You say the bottom bearing race was removed when you sent out the frame for powder coat. I assume you mean the bearing race that was in the frame neck was replaced. Was the bearing race on the lower triple tree removed too? Have you checked to make sure that the bearing races in the neck of the frame are seated properly?

    Here is a picture of the lower triple tree. Were the original dust seal and bearing race removed before the new tapered bearings were installed?
    [​IMG][/url] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/img]

    If those two parts were not removed, then your new tapered bearing is not seated all the way down. You will need to remove those two parts and reseat the new bearing. I put the triple tree in the freezer for a few hours and the bearing in the oven to warm it up so that the bearing would just drop all the way down with no force needed.
     
  5. broberg

    broberg Member

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    And I'm glad for all assistance I can get! This thing bothers me more than it should :p

    You might be on to something, I was pretty sure I got the entire lower triple tree stem bearing out but maybe my eyes missed the bottom part if it separated.. Only one thing to do, remove the bearings again!

    The lower race in the neck is seated properly, the upper one could possibly be made to go down 1mm more, but doesn't make up for the missing aprox. 4mm
     
  6. broberg

    broberg Member

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    Those parts where removed! but theres another spacer (atleast it looks like that) that I'm worried about beneath those.

    But, from the looks on your picture it's supposed to be there (the seal hoover about as high as mine does currently)
     
  7. zombiehouse

    zombiehouse Member

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    There shouldn't be any other spacer under that rubber seal. If it is the same color as the bottom of the tree, that is part of the lower tree. How much space do you have between the bottom of the frame neck and the bottom of the tree?
     
  8. mtnbikecrazy55

    mtnbikecrazy55 Active Member

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    I have the triple trees off my 550 Seca, ill grab a pic for you tonight.
     
  9. broberg

    broberg Member

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    I'll have to get back to you on that, I'm currently at work so I'll snap some pics after!

    But my fear of removing the bearings again have subsided a little bit given the picture you posted.
     
  10. zombiehouse

    zombiehouse Member

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    A picture of your problem might help us figure things out.
     
  11. broberg

    broberg Member

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    This gap is similar to mine, so we could probably assume that there is no fault in that area?
    [​IMG]
     
  12. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Some Bikes have a Stamped Dust Shield.
    Comes with the Dished Disc and a Spacer.

    ••••••••

    Dress-up.
    Use 1-Inch wide strips of Finishing Papers, ... and "Shoe-shine" a restored smooth finish.

    Clean the Rubber Seal area as best you can.
    Treat it with a great preservative that is having a sale or the best ad agency.
    ( I use Armoral or Fork Oil. Which-ever is closest. )
    Weatherproof.
    From a Bicycle Shop. A small tube of Waterproof Synthetic Grease.
    There is no right amount.
    Whatever you feel comfortable with.
    ••••••••••
     
  13. broberg

    broberg Member

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    This is how it looks when i push the lower tree as far as it goes

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  14. broberg

    broberg Member

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    I See now that maybe i can push it up a bit more?
    So the dust seal is completely inside the neck?


    Edit: And I checked and rechecked, the bearing races in the neck is as far down as they go. Still the top race protrudes about 5mm. (yes, the bearing races are those who came with the bearings, have not switched them around.)
     
  15. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    That upper bearing isn't sitting all the way down in the race. Something isn't right there.

    I don't know the specifics of your bike, but are you sure you don't have upper and lower components mixed up?
     
  16. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    The upper bearing won't sit all the way down in the race if that's the bearing that came in the kit I used. Whose kit did you buy?
     
  17. cutlass79500

    cutlass79500 Well-Known Member

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    I did the ones on my honda a few weeks ago the upper bearing looks like that. Pull the steering head back off take a board flat side beat the dog snot out of the lower race its not seated. Not sure if your fork ears are clamp on or not if not you will have to make spacers. you re use the original dust cap also it covers the bearing see pic. The lower race should actually recess in the steering head about 1/4 inch
     
  18. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Those Rollers don't belong protruding above the Bearing Race.
    Something's out-of-whack.

    In some recent Headset Bearing overhaul upgrades, ... the New Bearing's RACE was protruding well above the top of the Head Tube.

    I have reason to believe that those Bearings are the wrong Part.
    Last year, I replaced stock Ball Bearing with aftermarket-rollers for a Connecticut member.

    I used a Plastic Hammer to seat the Upper Race.
    Then, .... we loaded the Bearings and "Exercised" the Tree left and right to make sure the Races were fully seated.

    The TOP Race didn't protrude above the upper-ridge of the Head Tube.
    The Rollers weren't visible at all.
     
  19. razz1969

    razz1969 Active Member

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    You said that you had the frame powder coated. Hopefully your powder coat man didn't inadvertently powder coat the in side the upper neck. The powder coat can pretty thick and cause some tolerance problems.
     
  20. broberg

    broberg Member

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    Yes, The upper bearing wont fit over the stem, so you can't mix those two up. (the races are different in height though, but I didn't mix them up as they came in pairs and fitted one part before I even opened the other)


    I bought my kit from Pyramid Parts
    http://www.pyramidparts.co.uk/pages/ste ... bearings-1
    The BR26 was the one I was sent.



    Yes and no, It's coated but there is no powder inside the neck (first thing I checked when I picked the frame up :) ..)



    Anyway, the bearing races in the neck (both top and bottom) are seated properly, ie they can't go any lower unless I start carving out material in the neck. I measured the depth of the recess in the neck, and it tells me that it can't be forced down more.

    But I do agree that the rollers do look of in the bearing races..

    Will eat some breakfast and then go tinker a bit more, I have the measurements of xj4evers bearings now so I have something to compare with.
     
  21. broberg

    broberg Member

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    Okey,

    issue 1 : The stated 13mm is actually 14.5mm. (Who the hell lets these bearings through in the factory with a 13mm stamp? )
    issue 2 : I noticed that the grease only reached half the bearing race with the lower bearing, So after taking a rubber hammer and having a go, the dust seal was deformed but now It had full contact with the bearing race. And it gave me 2mm so I actually had some threads visible.

    So all in all, I'm ordering new bearings from xj4ever instead and cutting the old ones to pieces in pure frustration.


    What bothers me most is that the build is pretty much on hold until I get the new bearings installed :(
     
  22. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    The outer race will probably stick above the head as in cutlass79500's photo. You'll notice though that the bearing is in the race, not standing with the rollers part way out.

    Drawing of why that race protrudes is attached. Note that while the race sticks out of the head the overall height of the assembly is the same as stock.
     

    Attached Files:

  23. happydog500

    happydog500 Member

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    On my 750 it's supposed to have different size top and bottom. Maybe it's the same on this one?

    Like the previous poster said, maybe you have the lower mixed up?

    I have to do mine soon, so this makes me kind of worried. Hope we can get this figured out. Make sure you post back when you get it fixed so others can benefit.

    Chris.
     
  24. broberg

    broberg Member

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    happydog500 : As it says in the thread, the bearing races are different, the ID of the bearings are different between the two!
    It's impossible to get the top one on to the stem.

    My guess is that the bearings and the dust seals I got with the kit was cheap jumbo-mumbo-crap that just barely would fit. the xj4ever kit should arrive on Tuesday.


    But for now, I'm thinking this is a part of the lower tree, but still if someone could confirm this for me (yes it's painted over):
    [​IMG]

    Should it or shouldn't it be on there?!
     
  25. zombiehouse

    zombiehouse Member

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    The area you have in red is part of the tree. It is supposed to be there.
     
  26. broberg

    broberg Member

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    Thanks zombiehouse!
     
  27. broberg

    broberg Member

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    Okey, received the new kit from xj4ever, wanna see why I had some issues?

    on the left the pyramid parts bearing, on the right the all ball bearing from xj4ever.
    [​IMG]


    AND, the dust seals from xj4ever is a better fit for the neck then the ones included in the pyramid parts kit.
     
  28. broberg

    broberg Member

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    What can I say.. Everything is so much easier when you get parts that actually fits ^_^ BIG THANKS Xj4Ever for a quick delivery!

    Could finally start to reassemble the front end!
    [​IMG]
     
  29. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    I've seen some pretty poor reviews of pyramid fork seals. Looks like they have bearing problems too.
     
  30. Kickaha

    Kickaha Active Member Premium Member

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    Their fork gaiters are crap as well
     
  31. broberg

    broberg Member

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    Yeah, after this I will probably pay more attention to where I get the parts from.. It's way to easy to shop on ebay.. click click and your done.
     

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