XJ600/FJ600 51J Project Advice

Hi folks,

I'm new to the forum but have been reading and searching through old posts to try and inform myself on this model - I recently purchased one as a non running project. It was the right price (bikes are expensive in Ireland and it was about as cheap a project bike as I could find). My timing was 'excellent' as I paid a deposit the day before travel restrictions were introduced here - so I haven't been able to get it delivered yet.

The bike is a 1990 (manufactured 1989) Yamaha XJ600/FJ600 (US designation). It has an interesting past - the first registered owner was the Revenue Commissioners - I can only assume the tax men of the day had an internal courier service given the sensitive information they might carry. It would also explain the full luggage set with the bike. The bike is not starting at present but was low mileage and when hooked up to a battery by the owner did turn over. I foolishly didn't take photos/video.

So my plans for the project (my first) are more or less a faithful restoration of the bike with a little bit of resto-modding to boot. I actually like the styling of the bike and also hope to avoid larger jobs requiring skill sets and expensive tools I don't have (like fabrication and welding of a subframe for a cafe racer conversion etc.). I intend to make the following upgrades (once/if I can get it running well) anyway:

• Switch to led lighting (may look in to a full re-wire but the thought of this scares the **** out of me);
• Fit progressive springs;
  
• Fitting a Marving exhaust to replace the rotten one on it at present;
  
• Rebuild the brakes; and
  
• Fit braided lines.

If I get adventurous I may attempt to make a new fender, chainguard, and side covers down the line.

I'm seeking advice on:

• Minor/low cost modifications to the bike that will freshen it up - In particular if there are parts from newer bikes that fit without requiring modification (or very minor modifications) I'd love to hear about them; and/or
• You know of common issues/mods to these bikes that are seen as necessary/advisable upgrades.

Thanks for any comments guys. I'll update the thread when I get my hands on her and get stuck in to working on it.

 

Hi
I had one of these from 1 year old in 91 It was a follow on to the 550 I had as a student. But to be honest back then I just ride it and didn't do much maintenance other than oil changes. Unlike you I didn't really like the looks and that's maybe why I now have a 550/600 hybrid ;-)

Other things I think you will have to add to your 'to do' list are:

Thoroughly clean the carburetors (well known on here) and check/set the valve clearances, If its been standing for a while a compression test won't hurt - just t see what youve got. Finally you might want to dismantle strip and clean the fiendishly complicated rear shock linkage and change fork oil.

They bike is an honest machine of the era but a bit thirsty if I recall. There aren't any performance upgrade s worth bothering about that i know of.

Have fun with it.

 

Thanks for the feedback - it's very much appreciated. Yeah, I expect to replace pretty much all rubber components, seals, oils, plugs, as part of getting it properly roadworthy. I bought a kit to run compression tests but this bike will be the first time I'll have done anything more than fit braided brake lines and change brake pads! I'm sure a carb rebuild will be required and I'm considering going to pod filters for a neater look on the bike (research required on my part).

There's a tank dent that I'll try fix but replacement tanks seem to be available for smallish money if the repair doesn't work. The bike will also need to be repainted but I'm considering doing a rattle can job as judging by forums, some good youtube channels etc. it seems good enough with a bit of patience. I'll have to get deep in to some Moto Guzzi research to find the paint code I want though (I had a Moto Guzzi as my first bike and I want to reuse the specific red paint). I'm also curious if you guys use ultrasonic cleaners often? I've seen some decent results and I may have plenty of use for it between this bike and the fact that I'm being gifted a Honda CD175 by an uncle in the next few months/years depending on how this lockdown goes!

I am not looking for performance gains in terms of speed - I have a GSX1250FA which has more than enough go. I am more concerned about handling, braking performance gains to be honest.

Just got word back from a courier and he thinks he can manage a delivery Saturday - to say I'm excited is an understatement - in particular as I drool over the amazing work on this forum.

 

performance upgrades will not be needed if you get it running right, I've got 3 of these now and 2 spare engines, and believe me ,in the higher rev range ,it will jerk your arms, so much you need to hold on tight. 75bhp, is ample , a good upgrade is to replace the fusebox with a blade type.
if you can find my build thread , which is ( bensalf's 4 year café racer build ) if it still exists ,you will get some ideas.
I built an under seat tray to house all the electrics ,
i'll se if I can find the threads.
stu

 

cant find my build thread on here now , but its searchable on google .
this is it ,if it works
https://www.bing.com/search?q=bensa...s=n&sk=&cvid=1f391bddbef14c97c4619668ed44e200

not heard of a Marvin exhaust , do they do one for the 600?

 

Haha, I was drooling over your bike in that thread yesterday - stunning result without a doubt! Yeah, when I say performance I mean more along the lines of suspension/braking etc. I know people sometimes buy front ends from newer models to benefit from more modern suspension and brakes etc. (which if you're lucky can nearly be cheaper than refurbishing original parts). Doesn't seem to apply to XJ600s as far as I can see.

I'm petrified of handling the electrics but when I eventually have to I was looking at some of the motogadget stuff - pricey but seem very popular. As for the exhaust, it keeps telling me it's spam like if I try to post a link but they're available at Wemoto. They're steep enough at £428 but the exhaust on what I've bought is completely rotten and I don't feel right slapping a second hand and possibly half rotten exhaust on it to save a few quid.

Overall I hope to spend <€2000 on bringing the bike up to a very nice standard. Given that a quarter of that budget is going on the exhaust immediately I'm not too sure how that'll stack up over time.
I've already spent about €200 on various service parts and a Haynes manual. I've managed to arrange delivery for Saturday afternoon/evening. If it's not too late my plan is to do some initial photos - then do a very very thorough clean.

My plan of action is, on Sunday, to try and get it to run by (I'd really appreciate advice if I'm missing something obvious here):

• Installing the new battery;
  
• Oil change;
  
• New filters (oil and air);
• New spark plugs.

The tank was empty as far as I know and I saw the owner put fresh petrol in when trying to get it to fire up when viewing it. Hopefully the carbs are functioning enough to allow it to start and possibly run for a minute or two (I intend to rebuild the carbs over the next few weeks). If I can get it to run I want to handle drive and suspension tasks early on so I might do the front end rebuild first - then rear brake, chain and sprockets. All going well I can take it for a short and very slow test ride at that stage without risking wrapping myself around a tree.

 

ah, glad you were able to view the thread,
oil and filters can be obtained from M&P at £25 for 4 litres of putoline super dx4 with free filter, dunno what accessability to postal services is like in Ireland.
new battery depends on where you're going to put it, seat hump for a café racer is good , but space is limited.
this was my second xj600 build.

 

sorry ive forgotten how to post a picture, I have them on my laptop but photobucket wiped them of the web
how do I do it without uploading?
stu

 

Stu, I was prompted by the link to scan through your project again..
I'm part way through welding up (badly) some 'chambers' on a GT250 and was wondering who made your exhaust headers?

Cheers

 

it was a firm in hull, they mainly do stainless steel fabricating for the food industry, I was put on to them by a friend of mine, so I only have a first name and a mobile number, apart from visiting their workshop. they do bike fabricating in their spare time, so stuff takes a while, but that was about 6 years ago.
if you're interested i'll give you their details, the headers were £300
stu

 

Thanks Stu (sorry Cairan about thread hijack).. Probably too rich for me. I can probably pick up some batterd ebay exhausts and cut off the headers.. I'Ll be painting them anyway so while stainless would b great it would be a bit of a luxury.

 

Thanks for the feedback. For now not planning anything fancy with electrics or moving the battery to the seat hump. I may decide down the line to turn the bike into something with more of a vintage racer look but that will mainly be achieved with clip-ons and rear sets (I have seen some universal ones that could possibly work nicely). I'm mainly focused on a restoration with a few adjustments to modernise the bike of improve it's performance (progressive shocks and braided lines in particular).

@a100man - no worries about the thread highjack. Cool for me to hear some of this stuff and it's keeping the thread alive. All going well the bike arrives tomorrow so I'll be able to get some pics up - it's definitely a project as it has been sitting for years in a shed.

 

Hope the images below work through google photos. The bike arrived late Saturday night so there wasn't anything I could do besides park it. Sunday was primarily a day of repeated cleaning. The bike was washed end to end 3/4 times - each time improving some part of its appearance or removing some other bit of grime. Frankly, I'm amazed at the condition of some parts. I removed the engine guard (unnecessary weight and it was rotten), also removed various brackets for top box and panniers. With some difficulty I managed to roll it from the garage to my workshop space and took off the tank to access all the spark plugs. As far as I can tell the interior of the tank is remarkably clean but it merits more investigation. I've identified a few missing bolts (spare pieces from previous mechanical work no doubt! Most worryingly the bolt for retaining the fuel tank - which was essentially held on by gravity and the fuel line!). While I was working on it I threw in the HiFlo air filter I had to hand but the one in it was actually in alright shape.

I have new fuel line, fuel filter, and various small tools on the way. I hope to be in a position to fit the new spark plugs, battery, fuel line and filters this weekend and to do an oil change too. With some luck I may be able to fire it up by Sunday next.

 

ciar'an, do you have pictures of the engine bars and rear rack and brackets, I think I may like to buy them off you , if youre not going to use them,
it'll get you some cash to do some jobs.
stu

 

Hi, I'm trying to use an xj/fj600 airbox on my 650 maxim, I previously fitted a set of 600 mikuni carbs and they work well (very well actually), but I fancied the 600 airbox. It fits the frame (with some shifting around of the electrics and removing the maxim airbox top bracket), fits the carbs and looks better than the 650 airbox as well as being way bigger.
But, it interferes with the clutch cable. Do you think you could post up a pic of how Yamaha solved this please? I'm thinking take it over and behind the airbox.

 

I'll have a look at the route tomorrow and take some pictures for you.

 

I'd nearly feel bad selling it all to you, in particular the engine guard, the chrome on it looks terrible. The panniers weren't fitted when I got it so I can't promise all of the necessary bracketry is there but most of it seems to be. I'll gather it up tomorrow and try post some pics for you so you can figure out if they're something you're really interested in.

 

ok, ciar'an, thanks , i'm not worried about chrome, I would be refinishing them,
cheers.
as regards the clutch cable, on the 600 the cable runs down the front r/h frame downtube , then across the top of the r/h engine cover.
the clutch actuator arm lies in top of the clutch case. does the 650 actuator sit at the back of the case, in which case then I could see it interfering on the airbox.
stu

 

Hi, I'll upload some pics to illustrate the state of the engine guards. I think the boxes are probably too far gone. The lock on one refused to open and the frame itself seems to be warped. You can see damage to the fibreglass in the pictures. It also seems to be missing one bracket but I'm sure it would be possible to fabricate one.

In the absence of having a few key tools to crack on I've started polishing the wheels (don't worry they'll come off in time and be done properly). I just didn't want to be idle this evening so started cleaning up the more accessible parts to make life easier down the line.

@Minimutly Insofar as I have access to the clutch cable, bensalf's description seems spot on.

 

ciar'an , yes I would like to buy all the metal parts, ( don't need the boxes ). if you could let me know how much you want for them -plus postage e.t.c.
I can arrange payment , thanks
stu

 

@bensalf I'm more than happy to send them your way but I'll have to find out where to get a box large enough to ship them. As I said, the pannier frame seems to be somewhat warped but maybe some heat would help bend it back in. Given the quality of your build I'm convinced you'll manage it.

It may be a few weeks before restrictions are loosened enough here for me to source a box big enough and to get it to a post office.

 

yeh, ok ,no problem, when-ever you can get around to it, I,ll , have them, thanks, just what I need for my next bobber project.
its another one -just same as yours.
stu

 

I think the cable will go down between carbs 3 and 4, otherwise it will have to go on the outside of the rack. I'm not interested in trying a 550/600 clutch cover, unles I'm forced to.
One oddity I noticed when I bought my xj600 airbox - it has a helmholtz resonator built into the side gover, must be a mod Yamhaa worked out.

 

It has a what.?

 

so , managed to find one of my photos of the clutch cable routing on the 600, after I figured out how to post then, after photobucket

 

here's one of the inside cover of the airbox , possibly with the "thingy", that "minymutly" mentioned.

 

That's the one - not fitted to all the 600s, and not to the 650 or 900s. It's a chamber (or pair of chambers) that go nowhere. All to do with the resonant frequency of the air in the airbox at a certain rpm - its likely that Yamaha sussed out that they could gain a bunch of hp somewhere in the rev range - either to up the max hp or bring the bottom end up.
Very common on injected cars.

 

Thanks, food for thought

 

oh,

 

Quick update. Installed an inline fuel filter, new battery, and new spark plugs and she fired up immediately. I've had some issue with trying to do an oil change and was wondering if it is normal to have to remove the exhausts on an XJ to do an oil change (the Hayne's manual suggests that this is the normal procedure for other Yamaha models).

Other than that 'm ordering a few pieces now that I know the bike runs. I'll order an ultrasonic cleaner so I can rebuild the carbs although that's not a priority for me. I'm mainly focused on doing wheels bearings, seals, new tyres, chain and sprocket, and refurbished brakes, and new front suspension while I have things apart.

I am considering a new bar set up so don't want to commit to braided lines etc yet as they may wind up the wrong length. Also not sure if it is worthwhile refurbing the master cylinder as I might end up swapping that too. All comments welcome.

@bensalf - I'd love to hear about how you managed your rearsets. I've put aside the parts for you and will ship them as soon as I can get a box/boxes big enough.

 

Filter access can depend on whether the exhaust is after-market or original - guess which is worst!

IIRC teh XJ600 has an odd handlebar bar set-up (pseudo clip-ons) which will mean modifying the top yoke to fit 22mm clamps if you want other bars..

 

hi , Ciaran, thanks for the update, we can exchange contacts ,when you're ready.
re, the rearsets, well I made the alloy brackets myself, out of 10mm thick alloy plate. i'll se if I can find the pictures how I made them.
stu
first I made some cardboard cutouts of the shape I needed to pick up the original hanger mounting holes,. and roughly the shape for the place I needed the footrests.
then I made some wooden hangers from the cardboard , and mounted them up


then transferred the shape onto 10mm thick alloy plate and cut them out


the footrest brackets are the original square chrome ones, but I changed the footrests to more sporty ones

 

Kudos, good job all around. I like it when guys do their own work and design. So much more personal than buying parts.
Cheers, 50gary

 

That is what I think too. I like the work he has done and the exhaust silencers remind me of the Triumph Hurricane although that had three silencers. I wish I had a workshop that would be fun. Best present my father ever got me was a Mecanno set it all started there.

 

Hi folks, been a while since I've updated. I've done some minimal work on a tear down. Stripping off a few bits and pieces and well, let's just say the front brakes were really stuck on!
The pads on both calipers were seized on the discs - it took some time to get them off! Actual disassembly of the calipers was nearly impossible. I got to a point where I was convinced they were scrap material so took a chance on sticking the calipers between two blocks of wood in a vise. With a 1m breaker bar (and a lot of huffing and puffing) I was able to split the calipers without stripping the threads. Looking at them now though the pistons are well and truly stuck in there and I'm not sure I'll be able to remove them to rebuild these brakes.

Which leads me to some interesting thoughts re caliper swaps. So I'm absolutely a complete novice at this hence why I'm being cautious but if I have to buy used brakes + a rebuild kit I'm possibly talking similar money to swapping for a completely different caliper anyway.

This is an old Tokico 6-pot caliper I have left over from a 2003 Bandit (I was binning these calipers as they were beyond saving). I am obviously concerned that 6-pots may be too aggressive an upgrade. But to me it looks like a small spacer will push the caliper over to be centred on the disc.

I'm using these Tokico's as an example to get opinions on whether something like this could work (to test the concept) - I've seen a few sites advertise Brembo P4 30/34 (4 pots) for about €280 a pair. Their mounting distance is different so I'd have to design a mount specific to them.



I've mocked up a super quick and blocky 3d render of a possible mounting plate design (not to scale).
You can see the fork leg is light grey while the new adapter plate is blue. Black represents the upper mounting point of the Tokico Caliper. You can see in pink (2nd render) the spacer required to centre the caliper on the disc.

 

So folks, very tiny update but as you can see I have the tokicos closer to centred on the disc. Two m8 washers were enough to get the brakes almost perfectly centred.

Given the state of the calipers that came off the bike and the ready supply of these tokicos I'm growing more certain of mocking up an adapter bracket in scrap and then having someone machine the bracket and spacers in aluminium.

As you can see in my last post the calipers seem to sit in quite a nice place due to the fact I can use the lower mounting point from the stock set up. In fact the original brake line (which is shot) turns out to be just about the perfect length with these brakes so I should be able to buy off the shelf braided lines and not have to worry about the length.

 

Hi Ciaran

The original caliper was used on a lot of models I think so you should be able to pick-up serviceable units on ebay., or there are places that can refurb old units in almost any state - cheap too. If not in Ireland then England for sure. Meanwhile lob your existing units in a bucket of paraffin.
the Tokicos might work too but it seems a fair bit of effort if you have other aspects to be getting on with.

 

just a point on the Tokicos, if they're 6 pot, that's 12 pots for both, does the master cylinder have enough capacity to push them all out, or are you replacing the M/C

stu

 

Thanks guys. I was thinking much the same in terms of the work involved in making them work. I may replace the M/C but at the moment I'm still undecided. I think I take flights of fancy re doing cool things by way of upgrades - in reality I need to watch the budget and stick with as many standard parts as possible.

 

It has been a while since I've updated partly due to going through a patch of low motivation generally (not for the project specifically). Following on from previous discussions I decided that I'd do my best to salvage the front calipers despite some terribly stuck pistons.

I used the old trick of hooking them up to a grease gun and managed to get the pistons removed.

The calipers actually seem in fine order and the pistons are better than expected. I will order a full rebuild kit asap but the site I'm using for parts informed me they won't have that in stock for 4-6 weeks!

I now have the challenge of cleaning the grease from the caliper internals, I'll have to research the forums to see if I can find a recommendation for an affordable ultrasonic cleaner as I think it might save me a lot of work in the long run with carbs etc. needing work down the line.

*Edit: So I spent 30-40 minutes spraying brake cleaner into every cavity in the split calipers and I'm fairly confident they're 90% degreased. I'll give them another go when they've dried off a bit and the light is better.

I plan to replace the master cylinder and brake lines in the near future as both are completely shot. Will also try and sort chain and sprockets too.

 

i had to do exactly the same with my front calipers , i found spraying through the passages with wd40 got rid of most of the grease ,(i used a full can on them) then with brake / carb cleaner, just to make sure, they work fine, no problem.
stu

 

Get as much out as you can with your fingers and some cotton swabs. Follow up with the degreaser or carb cleaner of your choice.

 

Thanks for the comments.

I think the brakes are now clean, as much as they're likely to be anyway. I'm not entirely confident they're safe to use, I know some wear on the face outside of the seals is acceptable but there's a weird discolouration deep within the pots. I'll post pics shortly.

The major discovery of all this, and presumably the reason the brakes were so solidly seized was the complete absence of the outer seal (dust I presume) from both calipers (all 4 pots were lacking the seal). Frankly I'm amazed the brakes weren't in worse condition.

I'm currently shopping for a master cylinder setup for the bike. New MCs are bloody expensive so I'm considering finding a 22mm mount MC from a fairly modern midsized sportbike. Picking a bike at random to give an example, let's say an MC from a Honda CB500rr, it's probably a lighter bike but with more aggressive braking characteristics.

Although, thinking it through will I need an MC from a pre-abs bike if I'm going the second hand route?

 

I think my M/C is from a GPZ550 fwiw. Pick something close and you'll not go far wrong. I might even have chosen that one as I could buy a cheap rebuild kit for it..

 

Assuming the XJ600F uses the same brakes as the 900F, to keep the hydraulic leverage the same I would recommend the m/c from a Honda NT600v Deauville, as it has a nice span-adjustable lever and is just nicer to use. I've been using them on most of my bikes for a few years now.
Late 90s / early 2000 ones had a mirror perch on them, too.

Oddly, the XJ900F master cylinder was fitted to my GS long before I bought an XJ, as it was a better feeling m/c than the old Suzuki one - same bore, much better control.
I'm quite happy with the brakes on the XJ, but if I have to replace the m/c it will be a Deauville one that goes on.

 

Thanks for all the comments. As promised yesterday here are some pics of the internals of the brakes. I still hadn't pulled the seals or finished cleaning when I took these pics.
I'm anxious they're not safe to use again. Unfortunately full rebuild kits are also out of stock in the store I use so even if I bought second hand brakes from a breaker I wouldn't be able to progress the brakes much.

I've been looking around and I've seen a new nissin master cylinder 5/8" advertised in a few places that is on sale for about €120. Seems like a good deal on a brand new set up.

Hope to order that soon. Then I guess it is time to sort out throttle and clutch cables and brake lines.

Disassembly of the rear brake and master cylinder is high on the list of jobs too.

I'm taking my sweet time thinking over every part I want/can afford at the moment but mainly it's about getting this thing mid way road worthy to see what needs fettling.

 

Ok so I've just forked over a lot of money for a range of parts. Some are cosmetic which may seem premature but given I was paying shipping charges anyways I took advantage of it to get a few basic items.
Louis:
- New throttle and clutch cables (c.€27)
- New grips (€10)
- Chain & Sprocket - DID 530VX (€117)
- New mirrors (old ones were in terrible condition and I hated the look of them) (€49 for two)
- Chain breaker and riveter (I'm such a beginner at all this - I didn't have one!) (€35)
CarpiMoto
- Nissin Master Cylinder (€129 including shipping).

Tonight I may order HEL braided lines (front €128, rear €43).

I have successfully removed my old Master Cylinder (had to drill the heads of the screws and then grab the nubs that were left to turn them out). So I had the option of refurbishing the old master cylinder but it's a pretty nasty looking unit now at a cost of €70 for a full refurb kit. I just felt the brand new Nissin was the better choice and required less effort. I'll consider trying to tidy up the MC as best I can to keep it as a spare or potentially to ebay it. The inside of the sight bubble is horribly dirty but I've made some progress in cleaning it. I may invest in a small ultrasonic cleaner at some point but any of the ones I've seen have looked like absolute rubbish or have been ludicrously expensive.

My main issue now is to determine if the calipers are salvageable (I suspect not) or should be replaced. Opinions welcome based on pics above. If required I can provide more.

 

Is that the same size as the stock one ? changing the size up and down from standard can make a huge difference to the way it feels and not always for the better

 

Both are 5/8" pistons so I'm hopeful it will be similar. I'll admit I took a chance on it as a beginner at all this. I think there could be quite a lot of work in fully restoring the stock MC I have and there's always a risk in buying second hand parts that they'll also need full refurb. So, the short answer is - I won't know for sure how it performs until I get the bike properly roadworthy and can test it - frankly that's a long way away just yet.

I'm trying to get it to a point that it is rideable to determine whether I really want to sink the cost in for a new exhaust system, taking on wiring, painting etc.

 

Hi Ciaran, since you are this side of the Atlantic you can try Yambits for brake refurb parts, The calipers look ok to me but once you pull the seals you need to scrape all the corrosion from behind them in the grooves with a plastic or wooden pick. pistons and seals are 25 quids a go and so is the master rebuild kit. If you're going to order a heap of stuff then consider using XJ4ever on here postage won't then be so bad.