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xj650 brat/tracker

Discussion in 'XJ Modifications' started by sybe, Sep 7, 2015.

  1. 50gary

    50gary Active Member

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    Read carefully, I made the rear wheel from two major parts, welded them together. The rear donor hub is a rear hub from an XJ1100 (spokes and rim band sawed off then the hub is turned on the lathe to a precise O.D). Then the cast spokes and rim is from an R1 front wheel with the R1 hub cut out (turned out on a large lathe to the same precise I.D. as the O.D. of the hub) Then aligned on a truing stand and T.I.G. welded. the "new" finished wheel is the same dimension as the standard front R1 3.50" x 17"
    On the front I have the complete 2000 Yamaha R1, 17" x 3.5" sport bike wheel, brakes the works. Others have done the complete front end on the XJs . I've done the conversion to my CX500 Honda, XS650 Yamaha, and a DT360 conversion. The 750 Maxim is my fourth. I always upgrade the rear to keep the bike in balance.
    I bought an Apple Mac Mini computer and I can't get the computer to recognise my camera to upload pictures, I'm decent at bikes mods but lousy at computer knowledge, mainly because It doesn't interest me.
    Cheers, 50gary
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    Minimutly likes this.
  2. Minimutly

    Minimutly Active Member

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    Yep, that's how I read it r1 front wheel both ends. Having different style wheels would spoil any conversion imho, so sweet.
     
  3. sybe

    sybe Active Member

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    Exactly, there are ways to fake it with the other 5 star rims like the virago rear wheel. if you are going through the effort of upgrading the front end, the rears braking system should follow. how to get there is all trial and error. i am stuck where I am at because I don't have a mill.

    looking to buy a home soon so when that happens the garage is being turned into a workshop. One thing I am confused about, how come No one makes adapter plates for certain style wheels to hold the center gear.

    cognitomoto makes a new hub, but who wants to spend 2k on wheels
     
  4. 50gary

    50gary Active Member

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    I'll get some photos up or my name isn't...
    Cheers, 50gary
     
  5. 50gary

    50gary Active Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]This is the process of preparing the hub, Cut off the spokes/rim, put the hub in the lathe turn it to the largest diameter possible. (remove only enough to be true and round)
    The third photo is showing two black lines, the right line is the contact point of the cast spoke where it will be welded. The left line ithe actual centerline of the new rim. More to come.
    Cheers, 50gary
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  6. 50gary

    50gary Active Member

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    PICT0037.JPG PICT0040.JPG PICT0033.JPG "New" XJ wheel ready for service. Gold powder coat with clear top coat. Front rotors not applied in the photo.
    Rear rotor is new style Motocross rotor, caliper is a low mount Suzuki double piston used on many Suz. models. Note the weight of the prepped wheels, much
    lighter than stock XJ even though they are wider.
    Cheers, 50gary
     
    jayrodoh, Franz and Minimutly like this.
  7. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    @50gary that is a clever approach. In the pic of the rear wheel I still don't understand where your welds are?
    Did you weld the R1 spokes to the XJ hub? If so that is some tricking work.
     
  8. Minimutly

    Minimutly Active Member

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    Any suggestions as to what kind of adaptor / what would be involved?
     
  9. sybe

    sybe Active Member

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    pretty cool and smart approach. looks very clean.
     
  10. 50gary

    50gary Active Member

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    Thanks for the kind words. The simple answer is yes, the welds are Heliarc (aluminum T.I.G.) the 'joint' is the base each of the three spokes to the O.D. of the XJ hub.
    There was a lot of calculation in finding the right wheels that had the spokes that would fit and center on the hub. The lathe work has to be on the nut
    because the two pieces had to have about a .002" press fit to mate the pieces concentrically. The welds were kinda of tricky as the spokes are pretty thin
    where they meet the hub which is thicker material so the heat must be carefully controlled. Preheat the parts and not have it move out of alignment when tacked
    welded and that took a second try, the first time it moved (checked it for runout) before the finish welds. I did a second pass to build up the bead then hand filed
    it smooth finish, when powder coated it looks like it was cast that way at the factory. I remove all the casting marks and file them smooth, only leaving the size and rotation arrow.
    More to come. Sorry for the thread jac.
    Cheers, 50gary
     
  11. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    What did you use for filler metal?
    I thought these wheels would be some exotic alloy?
    The XJ wheel might be a different composition than the R1.
     
  12. sybe

    sybe Active Member

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    the wheels would have been one of two metals, magnesium or aluminum. I believe a good test to see which is which is scrap the paint off to the metal and add white vinegar to it. if it bubbles its mag.
     
  13. 50gary

    50gary Active Member

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    Filler rod is 4043 3/32", gas 100% argon, I have an older Miller Syncrowave 250 with water cooled torch. I usually have more amperage at the pedal than I need and 'pedal' it.
    All cast aluminum can be welded. I never gave a thought that it wouldn't work.
    Cheers, 50gary
     
  14. sybe

    sybe Active Member

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    did you preheat the aluminum before welding? and special prep?
     
  15. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    info below warns about cracking with the 4 series wire. I’m not sure what NDE is best for aluminum but that would have given you piece of mind before powder coat, I’m not 2nd guessing anything, you seem to know what you’re doing.
    It would still be nice to know the 2 parent metals to make sure the filler is equally strong.




    Alloys – 4xxx Series


    The 4xxx series aluminum/silicon alloys are used predominately for filler alloys and are found as nonheat-treatable and heat-treatable alloys containing 4.5 to 13 percent silicon. Silicon in an aluminum filler/base alloy mixture of 0.5 to 2 percent produces a weld metal composition that is crack sensitive. A weld with this chemistry usually will crack during solidification.

    Care must be exercised if welding a 1xxx series (pure Al) base alloy with a 4xxx series (Al/Si) filler alloy to prevent a weld metal chemistry mixture within this crack sensitive range.
     
  16. 50gary

    50gary Active Member

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    I did pre-heat both parts to about 450F before welding as mentioned in post 109. Aluminum must be cleaned just prior to welding, Stainless steel wire brush after bead blasting the parts.
    I wrote to Yamaha corporate casting department and told them about my project (impressed they responded) they told me the wheels are gravity cast aluminum since 1976. They did not
    have any input on what filler rod to use. The 4043 rod I used has 4.5 to 6.5 Si I'm not too worried about cracks with the base material and my rod. After welding the wheel was heated to 325F for about 30 minutes then allowed to cool to room temp. I would like to do another at some point with perhaps a more modern wheel, lighter stiffer etc..
    Cheers, 50gary
     
  17. Simmy

    Simmy Well-Known Member

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    You did some research then, you do know what you're doing.
    I'm equally impressed Yamaha got back to you although refusing to provide details is not surprising.

    Even though I'm not a welder, welding is what I've made my living with the last 35 years but we only weld steel, pressure welds.
    Aluminum is something brand new to me and I just started reading but I would agree with your wire selection.
    Below is a very useful website I found.

    https://www.esabna.com/us/en/education/blog/filler-alloy-selection-for-aluminum-welding.cfm
     
  18. sybe

    sybe Active Member

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    Aluminum welding is on a whole different level and way outside of my knowledge. If you want tips on how to get a pre-Tan before you hit the beach this summer by using a welder, that i know. First hand accidental knowledge. If his welds hold who knows... The ingenuity and the marbles to try that i commend. I would have never thought to cut up a rim in that way.

    Getting a billet of Alum + mill + lathe = new hub to mount the gear to. CBR300 has a 17 inch x 4inch wide rim that will fit dimensionally. The clutch hub and bearings is still the issue like any other wheel.
     
  19. 50gary

    50gary Active Member

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    How are you going to get the XJ drive system to adapt to the chain drive CBR wheel?
    Cheers, 50gary
     
  20. May_J_Aaron

    May_J_Aaron Josh May Premium Member

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    I may have a safety diode block for you, still need one?
     

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