testing the relay/flasher xj700x

My bike shut down on me a few days ago and I have gotten the chance to test the relay that is located under the fuel tank.
The book says that I should have zero ohms when I have it connected to the battery. I got 4.5 ohms. is it safe to say that I need a new flasher relay?
I ask cause it gonna be a days wages for a new one ?
I followed the directions from the service manual 85/86 maxim X
chapter 7 section 11.

 

If it is a relay is should either be "0" or "-" what ever symbol I can't find on my keyboard for i or open. I would try the "tap" method to see if that will open the contacts as they could be stuck a little. Don't kill it will a hit but a lite tap with something that will not brake the plastic.

Knowing it is a relay and should be either open or shorted, we might be able to wire in a different relay from a auto shop for a much cheaper price. Might have to remove the wires that are part of the relay and put a 30 amp relay in the ckt if you want to save the $$.

More folks will chime in soon with maybe better ideas.

 

the symbol is binary code 0 l zero or one. use lower case L (l) for the 1.

 

One thing I noticed that when I applied power to the circuit I did get a click not a really strong one but a click nonetheless.

More importantly for the relay I still got 4.5 OHMS with power is applied so it is a bad relay?

 

To address this question yes it is marginal. I am assuming you are ohming the starter cutoff relay that is internal to the module. I don't have an X, but looking at photos on Ebay it looks like it is a simple process to remove the cover and perhaps you can clean the relay contacts if need be, or they might be sealed but it could be worth a look if no one else has crossed this path to state otherwise. That said, from what you posted in "What did you do to your Yamaha today" has me wondering where you are heading. There were some remarks in there that need clarification as quoted below.



"This time all the lights come on and even when I hit the starter button everything dims but no starter engagement."

This first statement sounds like a weak battery or a poor connection at the battery terminals. The lights should not dim significantly when starting.

"Now I just realized that the 10 amp fuse under the cluster is popping as soon as I turn the key to the on position."

And which fuse was this and has this been corrected? If it is the ignition fuse then certainly the bike is not going to run.

"When I grounded the blue/white wire the starter turned over but no engine start"

And the key was on? The starter solenoid is wired such that it will engage without the key set to "ON" when the L/W wire is grounded. The starter cutoff relay also relies on the ignition fuse for power, so back to are the fuses OK now.

"left Phagens got about 3/4 of mile away and bikes just freakin stops running."

Only way the starter cutoff relay is going to do this is if it caused a blown ignition fuse.

 

last week I had a ignition switch problem (DIRTY CONTACTS). This is answer to first quote. Once I cleaned it everything worked fine.

Battery is good and fully charged.

The fuse is for the Fan 10 amp. At this point I have not rectified the fuse issue for the fan.

Summer term is in full swing and school takes priority at this time.

I have cleaned the relay by taking the cover off and using CRC contact cleaner.

As with any repair or testing I do things 2 or 3 times to verify components or either good or bad.
I do appreciate all suggestions that I receive.

I followed the instructions from the repair manual. I will double check them again this week.

 

Did you just spray the contacts or can you provide more details on how you cleaned them? And, guess I am a bit confused but did you clean the starter cutoff relay contacts or the flasher relay contacts, or both? I ask because you initially asked if you needed a flasher relay. If you can spare some time maybe a pic of the internals on the combination module would help here and for future reference for other members. Like I mentioned earlier, I don't have an X or the service manual to refer to Chapter 7, section 11 so I am just guessing on what the combination module is like. Does it contain two accessible relays (starter cutoff and flasher), or perhaps a PCB mounted relay for the starter cutoff relay, since it a relatively low current?

As for cleaning the contacts, a good practice is to first try the contact cleaner as you have done, but then use an unprinted section of a business card to wipe the contacts. Do that a couple of times and evaluate electrically for low resistance per the service manual testing. If the cleaning with this method does not work, then you get all sorts of opinions on what is the best way to recondition the contacts. My recommendation is to use a burnishing tool intended for cleaning relay contacts, but using a super fine sandpaper (1500 or 2000) or crocus cloth is also generally accepted, just be sure to clean the contacts thoroughly afterwards as mentioned above. A shot of compressed air would also be suggested if the burnishing tool or sandpaper was used.

I am also still confused on what you are trying to fix? The combination module that contains the starter cutoff relay, the flasher relay, and the auto cancel unit is not going to cause the bike to shut down as stated above unless it caused the ignition fuse to blow. If you are focused on why the starter does not spin when you press the start button, then yes evaluating the module makes sense as well as ensuring the related safety switches are in working order.

 

I will take a picture this afternoon when I get off work. The relay is the two contact type.
per your suggestion I will start with fixing the Fan fuse issue first then proceed to the safety switches i.e. neutral/side stand.
I all ready ordered a new relay and it is on the way. Good to have a new one just in case.

 

From What did you do to your Yamaha today:

"Any ideas to how to bypass the clutch safety, kickstand safety and neutral safety switch- I just would like to isolate the area that is causing me problems."

Clutch safety - open with clutch out, shorted when clutch pulled in. Follow the wires into the headlight bucket and disconnect. Short the main harness end to disable the clutch safety. Note this is a two part feature, the side stand switch works in conjunction with the clutch switch so the starter will engage while the bike is in gear. So, even if the clutch switch is bypassed, you will still need to put the side stand up and have a working side stand switch in order for the starter to engage while in gear.

Kickstand safety - Just remove the side stand relay and this will disable the side stand safety feature that disables the ignition. This will not affect the starter function or aid in troubleshooting a bike where the starter does not engage when the start button is depressed.

Side stand switch - open when side stand down, shorted when up. Short the two terminals together on the main harness or the hot side to chassis ground.

Neutral safety - Shorted in neutral, open in all other gears. Probably the most difficult mostly because the switch is buried under the engine. Simply short to ground to disable. The neutral light should illuminate and the starter cutoff relay and side stand relay should engage. You could also follow that harness up and find where it connects to the main harness, disconnect the neutral switch wire and ground it there. Note if troubleshooting a no start issue as in starter will not spin the diode block and associated wiring must be in working order for the starter cutoff relay to engage and enable the starter with a working or bypassed neutral switch.

And, if you are troubleshooting a no start issue as in starter will not spin, the XJ700 has the added benefit of a self check on the starter button. It's not 100%, but you should see the oil light illuminate when you press the starter button. No oil light means either the switch or associated circuitry (diode block, bulb, wiring) are bad.

 

Thank you so much for the information. I will start this after work or in the next few days again thank you.

 

If I wanted to by pass the ignition switch can I just ground the three prong plug and run a jumper across the hot- to one next to it.
_
_ - top one constant hot
the one below nothing and I believe the small one is the ground.
Just wondering.

Oh in regards to the oil light coming on NO just the fuel light comes on when the starter button is depressed.
Also the neutral safety light comes on when in neutral and off when I move the shifter to another gear-seem as though that one is okay.

 

No grounds on the ignition switch. Jumper red to brown and the bike will run, jumper red to blue to get tail and front running lights. Jumper all three together to simulate ignition "ON".

The oil light should illuminate and if does not then that points to either a bad starter switch or a problem with the diode block and associated wiring. Since you are having an issue with the starter not engaging, then the starter switch becomes the likely culprit.

Have you inspected and cleaned the starter switch and checked the connections from the right control under the gas tank?

The starter switch is fed by a Blue/White wire, shorting that to ground should engage the starter solenoid and then the starter. That wire is routed through the starter cutoff relay, so a working safety circuit, starter solenoid, and starter are necessary; bike in neutral should work.

 

Tonight when I get off work I actually have an hour or two to tinker with it and I will have more answers then.
It just seems real odd that the bike just shutoff when I was riding home that day.
Just thinking of all the free electrical training I am receiving LOL.